Why the surveillance memo matters

[Stephen_C]

I’m no fan of democracy

So what are you a fan of?

 

[Imdaman]

Xystus:

Luke6_37:

What makes you think Christopher Wray - a Trump appointee. Is a Democrat?

i guess you missed Pelosi on CNN. Not even Cuomo was swallowing her bull

Nancy Pelosi: GOP Is Lying To The American People | Video | RealClearPolitics

Christopher Wray was appointed by Trump. He’s not a Democrat & he didn’t want the memo released.

You really couldn’t tell that Couomo is playing devil’s advocate? Wow. That explains a lot.

What you need to understand about this situation is that never before has the House Intelligence Committee been used for such blatant partisan purposes. The norm in the past was always for members of that committee to put aside partisan politics and focus on national security. The Ryan, Nunes and the GOP committee members have turned it into a Republican tool to obstruct justice in the Russia investigation.

Releasing the memo is a blatent political move that undermines cooperation between the Justice Department and Congress - and that is a really bad for the nation.

How does releasing this obstruct Justice? Please expalin.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

That’s not what I said. Political opinions and undermining US interests to benefit a foreign adversary are not the same thing. There is “evidence” because the investigation is not yet complete. That’s the whole motivation behind this obstruction of justice effort by Congressional GOPs & the Trump White House.

Sorry, you define ‘undermining US interests’ as expressing a particular political opinion. There is no law against ‘undermining the US interests’. Again, why is Russia an adversary? We aren’t at war with them.

So you investigate people to see if there is any evidence of a crime? That isn’t how the law works in the US. Well, obviously it is, but it shouldn’t be and this is a dark chapter. You first need some evidence of a crime to get a search warrant. If not then Hillary should have been investigated too to see if we can find evidence of crimes we don’t yet know about.

In the United States, we believe in democracy and the rule of law. Not whatever ideology you seem to hold.

 

[CradleRC58]

So, I’m not really one to have a fruitful discussion of politics with. (I get bored easily by the topic) But I think I know a Statesman when I hear one speak, but the last one I did hear speak was Fred Thompson. RIP

Anyhow, after reading the memo, and assuming it is factual, what I get out of it is that the DNC funded/initiated an investigation under false pretense for political gain. And that a handful of members of the intelligence community realized this going in.

Is that pretty much it ?

 

[Luke6_37]

So, I’m not really one to have a fruitful discussion of politics with. I think I know a Statesman when I hear one speak, but the last one I did hear speak was Fred Thompson. RIP

Anyhow, after reading the memo, and assuming it is factual, what I get out of it is that the DNC funded/initiated an investigation under false pretense for political gain. And that a handful of members of the intelligence community realized this going in.

Is that pretty much it ?

The DNC funded opposition research. Something all campaigns do. There was nothing illegal about it.

The research produced a report (dossier) about Trump’s ties to Russia. The author of the dossier, Christopher Steele, gave it to the FBI. The FBI was already investigating Carter Page, a Trump campaign advisor, for his ties to Russia. The FBI referenced the dossier in an application for a FISA warrant - a warrant that has been renewed 3 times.

Make note - the memo does not dispute the fact that the dossier has proven to be factual. Nor does it mention the other mountains of evidence the FBI would have had to produce to get a FISA warrant. That is why it is partisan and misleading.

 

[exnihilo]

In the United States, we believe in democracy and the rule of law. Not whatever ideology you seem to hold.

I believe in the rule of law. Anyone who does should be gravely concerned about what the FBI did.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

Xystus:

Luke6_37:

What makes you think Christopher Wray - a Trump appointee. Is a Democrat?

i guess you missed Pelosi on CNN. Not even Cuomo was swallowing her bull

Nancy Pelosi: GOP Is Lying To The American People | Video | RealClearPolitics

Christopher Wray was appointed by Trump. He’s not a Democrat & he didn’t want the memo released.

You really couldn’t tell that Couomo is playing devil’s advocate? Wow. That explains a lot.

What you need to understand about this situation is that never before has the House Intelligence Committee been used for such blatant partisan purposes. The norm in the past was always for members of that committee to put aside partisan politics and focus on national security. The Ryan, Nunes and the GOP committee members have turned it into a Republican tool to obstruct justice in the Russia investigation.

Releasing the memo is a blatent political move that undermines cooperation between the Justice Department and Congress - and that is a really bad for the nation.

How does releasing this obstruct Justice? Please expalin.

How does it enhance justice? If you can’t answer that, then why release a top secret memo it at all?

 

[Theo520]

Only because Republicans put party over country.

I think you have that backwards

Did the FBI have cause to open a full-blown counterintelligence probe into an active presidential campaign? That’s a breathtakingly consequential and unprecedented action and surely could not be justified without much more than an overheard drunken conversation or an unsourced dossier.

Dems were in the driving seat

 

[lmachine]

I love it. By releasing this memo the Republicans let out that the FBI was able to corroborate enough of the Steele dossier to get a surveillance warrant on Carter Page (who they’ve been investigating since 2013). That’s what the Republican-led DoJ, the Republican-led FBI, and the House Intelligence Democrats didn’t want this memo released: Russia knows 100% of what’s true and not in the Steele Dossier, and by releasing this memo Republicans let Russia know that we know at least some of what they know.

While this is bad for the nation in that it endangers our counterintelligence efforts, it’s especially bad for Trump since we know at least some of the Steele dossier has been confirmed by the FBI.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

In the United States, we believe in democracy and the rule of law. Not whatever ideology you seem to hold.

I believe in the rule of law. Anyone who does should be gravely concerned about what the FBI did.

You cannot believe in both the “rule of law” and the “rule of popular opinion”. If you really believed in the rule of law, you would demand that Congress use proper procedures to deal with any potential abuses of FISA warrants by the FBI.

You would not want the party in power to release a classified memo to the public, because “popular opinion” is not the law.

If an individual like Edward Snowden or the minority party went rogue and released classified documents to the public, you could make the case that they risked their necks, because they believe the public must be informed about what the party in power is doing. That is not what is happening here.

 

[exnihilo]

You cannot believe in both the “rule of law” and the “rule of popular opinion”. If you really believed in the rule of law, you would demand that Congress use proper procedures to deal with any potential abuses of FISA warrants by the FBI.

FISA warrants are not the rule of law. The rule of law is transparent. That Congress supports this at all means they are enemies of the rule of law. Popular opinion seems to favor these star chambers. I support any and all exposures of secret government.

 

[Luke6_37]

I love it. By releasing this memo the Republicans let out that the FBI was able to corroborate enough of the Steele dossier to get a surveillance warrant on Carter Page (who they’ve been investigating since 2013). That’s what the Republican-led DoJ, the Republican-led FBI, and the House Intelligence Democrats didn’t want this memo released: Russia knows 100% of what’s true and not in the Steele Dossier, and by releasing this memo Republicans let Russia know that we know at least some of what they know.

While this is bad for the nation in that it endangers our counterintelligence efforts, it’s especially bad for Trump since we know at least some of the Steele dossier has been confirmed by the FBI.

I am thinking that its time to read the Steele dossier to see what exactly it alleges about Trump that has him so wound up. I have been avoiding it, because I heard there are salacious bits I would rather avoid.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

 

[angel12]

The memo still has not been released yet Rhubarb, you are pretending to already know what is contained in this yet-to-be released secret Government document.

Then how did the post above yours contain a link to read it?

 

[angel12]

Dems were in the driving seat

You mean, the Republican FBI Director?

 

[Imdaman]

[/quote]

How does releasing this obstruct Justice? Please expalin.
[/quote]

How does it enhance justice? If you can’t answer that, then why release a top secret memo it at all?
[/quote]

NO answer to my question, that is telling and par for course.

It enhances Justice by providing truth albiet only a part of the story. NO release the details. We can see that The Dems, FBI, DOJ. false flag about naltional security interests is B.S. So I wager that there is no Nat. Security concerns with the rest.

Justice must prevail regardless of where it leads/

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

The critical thing found in the memo isn’t that the Democrats paid for the Steele dossier, we already knew that. The critical thing is that that none of the payment information was disclosed to the FISC.

The FISA requires the disclosure of all relevant information, including that which could be favorable for the target of the application.

From the memo (emphasis mine):

Blockquote
Due to the sensitive nature of foreign intelligence activity, FISA submissions (including renewals) before the FISC are classified. As such, the public’s confidence in the integrity of the FISA process depends on the court’s ability to hold the government to the highest standard, particularly as it relates to surveillance of American citizens. However, the rigor in protecting the rights of Americans, which is reinforced by 90-day renewals of surveillance orders, is necessarily dependent on the government’s production to the court of all material and relevant facts. This should include information potentially favorable to the target of the FISA application that is known by the government. In the case of Carter Page, the government had at least four independent opportunities before the FISC to accurately provide an accounting of the relevant facts. However, our findings indicate that, as described below, material and relevant information was omitted.

Now I grant that we have not seen the actual submissions to the FISC. But as I see it, those omissions are critical for they indicate who is driving the application. Only way Democrats get out of this is to show they they did disclose the financial interests behind the creation of the dossier. This is why Schiff was so desperate to prevent the release of this memo: because the required disclosures won’t be found in the submissions and he knows it.

 

[Luke6_37]

How does releasing this obstruct Justice? Please expalin.

How does it enhance justice? If you can’t answer that, then why release a top secret memo it at all?

NO answer to my question, that is telling and par for course.

It enhances Justice by providing truth albiet only a part of the story. NO release the details. We can see that The Dems, FBI, DOJ. false flag about naltional security interests is B.S. So I wager that there is no Nat. Security concerns with the rest.

Justice must prevail regardless of where it leads/

What does your knowing anything have to do with justice? You are not sitting on a jury. You have no access to the full information. In our country, justice operates within a system. It does not operate based on popular opinion.

The GOP is the party in power. It has all the tools of justice at its disposal. The problem for them is that those tools won’t work for Trump, because he is guilty. To protect him, they need to say the tools of justice are bad by discrediting their own Justice Department and FBI.

 

[Xystus]

What you need to understand about this situation is that never before has the House Intelligence Committee been used for such blatant partisan purposes.

Did you read the memo?!? It is the FBI that was being blatantly political. you have to be blind to not see that.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

What does your knowing anything have to do with justice? You are not sitting on a jury. You have no access to the full information. In our country, justice operates within a system. It does not operate based on popular opinion.

The GOP is the party in power. It has all the tools of justice at its disposal. The problem for them is that those tools won’t work for Trump, because he is guilty. To protect him, they need to say the tools of justice are bad by discrediting their own Justice Department and FBI.

The system you speak of requires full disclosure or its credibility is suspect. When the Democrats had the power, they used it in a political way just as you accuse the Republicans of doing it now. Now the shoe is on the other foot and the power is being used to disclose misconduct. Remember Hillary wasn’t supposed to lose …

 

[Imdaman]

And still no answer to my question. At least I gave you my opinion. It is only an Opinion, could be wrong sure… But no Answer for my question. Yes very telling of your character indeed!