Why the Trinity?

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I have met Dad and I have met the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus and it is my opinion, I repeat my opinion, that anyone who thinks that they can prove to themself or anyone else, rationally, that God Is a Trinity, has proven to themself that they are capable of deluding themself.

As I have said, this is my opinion, but I firmly believe that it is beyond our human ability to “prove” that God Is, only God can “prove” that God Is.
 
I find a sensible argument to be more compelling than one that is not. I’m actually a trinitarian. But my trinitarianism is based on reason…on some kind of rationale. As I see it, if we aren’t able to articulate a reason for why God should be triune, then we have no reason to believe that God is triune. It’s that simple.

So, with that in mind, I pose the following question(s): Why the Trinity? Why should we believe that God is triune? What metaphysical problem(s) does it solve?

Note: This is a philosophical forum (at least, it purports to be one). So, I am asking a philosophical question and I am expecting a philosophical response - some kind of argument that appeals to my rational sensibilities.
If we can’t articulate it and we don’t have a “reason” to believe that God is Triune, it is a good thing that most of us have a little faith to go along with our lacking reason. If I had to rely on my ability to articulate reason, I would be lost. I’ll prove it to you as I try to articulate this.

The physical world that we are a part of is in 3 dimension and we are made in the likeness and image of God. We exist with and understand of 3 tenses of time, past present and future. God fully encompasses all Three. He is Eternal. Without water we die. Water is three molecules. Without God we die.

My favorite: Human sexual relations involves the total self giving of two individuals and in that completion of mutual gifts a third person. We are truly made in the likeness and image of God, A Communion of Persons in Love Who created a communion of persons to love.
 
Chooses or wills? (Choice implies that it could have been otherwise.)
Fair enough. Being all-powerful, God can will whatever God wants. However, being all-loving, God always chooses love.

I look forward to further discussion, and especially reading your reason for the Holy Trinity!
 
Fair enough. Being all-powerful, God can will whatever God wants. However, being all-loving, God always chooses love.
Well, God cannot act contrary to his nature. That’s a logical impossibility. So, if it is his nature to love, then love will always be what he wants. So, if God always chooses love (to use your words), then this would seem to imply that the “choice” to create could not have been otherwise.
 
Well, God cannot act contrary to his nature. That’s a logical impossibility. So, if it is his nature to love, then love will always be what he wants. So, if God always chooses love (to use your words), then this would seem to imply that the “choice” to create could not have been otherwise.
I was thinking too that God can’t be something He’s not. He is what He is.
 
Well, God cannot act contrary to his nature. That’s a logical impossibility. So, if it is his nature to love, then love will always be what he wants. So, if God always chooses love (to use your words), then this would seem to imply that the “choice” to create could not have been otherwise.
Precisely! Which is one of the reasons why I stated, “…with God, creation is certain.” Although I can tolerate the semantics of God has to create or love or be the Holy Trinity, my primary concern is to not lose the value of recognizing that God freely chooses to create, love, and be the Holy Trinity.

To say that God “has to…” is always circular within the context of God’s choice to love.

Thanks for your patience with me in finding a better explanation to this seemingly self-contradictory logic!
 
Precisely! Which is one of the reasons why I stated, “…with God, creation is certain.” Although I can tolerate the semantics of God has to create or love or be the Holy Trinity, my primary concern is to not lose the value of recognizing that God freely chooses to create, love, and be the Holy Trinity.

To say that God “has to…” is always circular within the context of God’s choice to love.
But the point I am trying to make here is that Catholicism teaches that the divine choice to create could have been otherwise. IOW, it is possible that there might not have been any creation whatsoever.
 
If God is Omnipotent and Omniscient and Omnipresent and a Being of Love and it is God’s Will that ALL be saved than it stands to reason that God came up with a “Plan”, even before creation, for ALL to be saved, using the Trinitarian Nature of God in bringing this “Plan” to Fruition, whether we can “figure out” that plan or not.

Could be that we, humans, are called upon to be more of an “active partner” with God in God’s Plan of Salvation, as opposed to just passive recipients of God’s Plan of Salvation, than we may even realize.
 
Why the Trinity? Because an abstract version of the Trinity could be Christianity’s answer to the world need for a framework of pluralistic theology. If you are interested in some new ideas on the Trinity in relation to religious pluralism, please check out my website at www.religiouspluralism.ca.

In a rational pluralistic worldview, major religions may be said to reflect the psychology of One God in three basic personalities, unified in spirit and universal in mind – analogous to the orthodox definition of the Trinity. In fact, there is much evidence that the psychologies of world religions reflect the unity of One God in an absolute Trinity.

In a constructive worldview: east, west, and far-east religions present a threefold understanding of One God manifest primarily in Muslim and Hebrew intuition of the Deity Absolute, Christian and Krishnan Hindu conception of the Universal Absolute Supreme Being; and Shaivite Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist apprehension of the Destroyer (meaning also Consummator), Unconditioned Absolute, or Spirit of All That Is and is not. Together with their variations and combinations in other major religions, these religious ideas reflect and express our collective understanding of God, in an expanded concept of the Holy Trinity.

The Trinity Absolute is portrayed in the logic of world religions, as follows:
  1. Muslims and Jews may be said to worship only the first person of the Trinity, i.e. the existential Deity Absolute Creator, known as Allah or Yhwh, Abba or Father (as Jesus called him), Brahma, and other names; represented by Gabriel (Executive Archangel), Muhammad and Moses (mighty messenger prophets), and others.
  2. Christians and Krishnan Hindus may be said to worship the first person through a second person, i.e. the experiential Universe or "Universal” Absolute Supreme Being (Allsoul or Supersoul), called Son/Christ or Vishnu/Krishna; represented by Michael (Supreme Archangel), Jesus (teacher and savior of souls), and others. The Allsoul is that gestalt of personal human consciousness, which we expect will be the “body of Christ” (Mahdi, Messiah, Kalki or Maitreya) in the second coming – personified in history by Muhammad, Jesus Christ, Buddha (9th incarnation of Vishnu), and others.
  3. Shaivite Hindus, Buddhists, and Confucian-Taoists seem to venerate the synthesis of the first and second persons in a third person or appearance, ie. the Destiny Consummator of ultimate reality – unqualified Nirvana consciousness – associative Tao of All That Is – the absonite* Unconditioned Absolute Spirit “Synthesis of Source and Synthesis,”** who/which is logically expected to be Allah/Abba/Brahma glorified in and by union with the Supreme Being – represented in religions by Gabriel, Michael, and other Archangels, Mahadevas, Spiritpersons, etc., who may be included within the mysterious Holy Ghost.
Other strains of religion seem to be psychological variations on the third person, or possibly combinations and permutations of the members of the Trinity – all just different personality perspectives on the Same God. Taken together, the world’s major religions give us at least two insights into the first person of this thrice-personal One God, two perceptions of the second person, and at least three glimpses of the third.
  • The ever-mysterious Holy Ghost or Unconditioned Spirit is neither absolutely infinite, nor absolutely finite, but absonite; meaning neither existential nor experiential, but their ultimate consummation; neither fully ideal nor totally real, but a middle path and grand synthesis of the superconscious and the conscious, in consciousness of the unconscious.
** This conception is so strong because somewhat as the Absonite Spirit is a synthesis of the spirit of the Absolute and the spirit of the Supreme, so it would seem that the evolving Supreme Being may himself also be a synthesis or “gestalt” of humanity with itself, in an Almighty Universe Allperson or Supersoul. Thus ultimately, the Absonite is their Unconditioned Absolute Coordinate Identity – the Spirit Synthesis of Source and Synthesis – the metaphysical Destiny Consummator of All That Is.

After the Hindu and Buddhist conceptions, perhaps the most subtle expression and comprehensive symbol of the 3rd person of the Trinity is the Tao (see book cover); involving the harmonization of “yin and yang” (great opposing ideas indentified in positive and negative, or otherwise contrasting terms). In the Taoist icon of yin and yang, the s-shaped line separating the black and white spaces may be interpreted as the Unconditioned “Middle Path” between condition and conditioned opposites, while the circle that encompasses them both suggests their synthesis in the Spirit of the “Great Way” or Tao of All That Is.

If the small black and white circles or “eyes” are taken to represent a nucleus of truth in both yin and yang, then the metaphysics of this symbolism fits nicely with the paradoxical mystery of the Christian Holy Ghost; who is neither the spirit of the one nor the spirit of the other, but the Glorified Spirit proceeding from both, taken altogether – as one entity – personally distinct from his co-equal, co-eternal and fully coordinate co-sponsors, who differentiate from him, as well as mingle and meld in him.

For more details, please see: www.religiouspluralism.ca

Samuel Stuart Maynes
 
If God is Omnipotent and Omniscient and Omnipresent and a Being of Love and it is God’s Will that ALL be saved than it stands to reason that God came up with a “Plan”, even before creation, for ALL to be saved, using the Trinitarian Nature of God in bringing this “Plan” to Fruition, whether we can “figure out” that plan or not.

Could be that we, humans, are called upon to be more of an “active partner” with God in God’s Plan of Salvation, as opposed to just passive recipients of God’s Plan of Salvation, than we may even realize.
That sounds reasonable to me. But does Catholicism teach in universal salvation?
 
Trinity as it is would be a logical syllogism,

god in any other form other than this,

is an abstraction and illusory being.
 
I find a sensible argument to be more compelling than one that is not. I’m actually a trinitarian. But my trinitarianism is based on reason…on some kind of rationale. As I see it, if we aren’t able to articulate a reason for why God should be triune, then we have no reason to believe that God is triune. It’s that simple.

So, with that in mind, I pose the following question(s): Why the Trinity? Why should we believe that God is triune? What metaphysical problem(s) does it solve?

Note: This is a philosophical forum (at least, it purports to be one). So, I am asking a philosophical question and I am expecting a philosophical response - some kind of argument that appeals to my rational sensibilities.
The Trinity as it is, would be a logical syllogism,

Any other form in the understandings of a God

would be an abstraction, illusory.
 
But the point I am trying to make here is that Catholicism teaches that the divine choice to create could have been otherwise. IOW, it is possible that there might not have been any creation whatsoever.
For my personal reflection, would you please share the source to the teaching?
 
Apocatastasis? No. Origen and a few others in the early Church held this view but it was deemed heretical soon after.
Universal reconciliation is an interesting topic, but it’s a topic for another thread.
 
“We believe that God created the world according to his wisdom. It is not the product of any necessity whatever, nor of blind fate or chance.” (source: Article 295, “The Catechism of the Catholic Church”)
Thanks for sharing the teaching!

Here are a few ideas to help you recognize the Wisdom of the Catholic Church:
  1. Do you believe God is All-Powerful?
    –Since I know God is All-Powerful, then God can do whatever God wants, and God needs nothing.
  2. Do you believe Love is founded on a free choice or forced or something else?
    –Since I know Love is a free choice, then God has the freedom to choose to Love, and his Love is not a product of necessity.
  3. Since God will not act contrary to his nature, what do you believe his nature is?
    –Since I know his nature is Love, then God is founded on a free choice, as opposed to forced in, to Love.
Thanks for the very interesting discussion! Please share your personal responses, and please share your reason for why God is the Holy Trinity.
 
Thanks for sharing the teaching!

Here are a few ideas to help you recognize the Wisdom of the Catholic Church:
  1. Do you believe God is All-Powerful?
    –Since I know God is All-Powerful, then God can do whatever God wants, and God needs nothing.
  2. Do you believe Love is founded on a free choice or forced or something else?
    –Since I know Love is a free choice, then God has the freedom to choose to Love, and his Love is not a product of necessity.
  3. Since God will not act contrary to his nature, what do you believe his nature is?
    –Since I know his nature is Love, then God is founded on a free choice, as opposed to forced in, to Love.
Thanks for the very interesting discussion! Please share your personal responses, and please share your reason for why God is the Holy Trinity.
The real question is whether or not the desire to create could have been otherwise. I believe that it could not have been otherwise. And it would appear that you do too.
 
Here I am again offering my two cents without reading everyone else’s opinions;
But anyway, it seems to me that God saw a need to educate and to help mankind to learn to be good after having sent the flood to eliminate the evil of the initial population of His good Earth;

So He needed to make a direct communication with His people;
But however, He saw a need to express Himself more humanly than He did with Moses when He appeared on Sinai as the Burning Bush and addressed Himself as “I AM that I Am”.

Enter Mary, Joseph and the baby Son of God Jesus delivered by the Holy Spirit into the womb of Mary
And from there we know the rest, that Jesus did teach us to love one another and to forsake sin and the devil so that we could achieve everlasting happiness in Heaven through Jesus Christ our Savior and His apostles.

PS:
Did God not see a need to show us through Jesus Christ His Son that we can ascend into Heaven after we die?

rex
It was interesting to me after I made this post, then saw that I mentioned the Burning Bush" which may have conflicted with His having made us in His image and then there was a new thread about God’s image;

So I’m stating now that I basically still think that l have the reasoning for the Trinity right except I’m adding here that we may be in God’s image, except God may be as tiny as a “String” or as huge as a “Multiverse”;

And/So enter Jesus because a “String” nor a “Multiverse” can be seen with our present technology. 🤷 :rolleyes:

rex
 
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