Why the Trinity?

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God, the Creator of Everything, is three distinct persons, who are each the same person who created everything, because as this person, who created everything, sharing love requires one to be three distinct persons.

To understand the reasoning for each person, consider the factors of eternal lovers: An everlasting communion of two or more persons who freely follow the rules of love. To grant free will, each lover cannot know every thought, feeling, and action past, present and future of the other lover.

Therefore:
  1. In order to ensure any person will freely follow the rules of love forever, there must be an all-knowing judge of all, who must be the person who created everything.
  2. Since God is a lover, who shares love, the person who created everything must also be a person who allows others to freely follow the rules of love. Therefore, the person who created everything must sacrifice all-knowledge, but not all-wisdom (which is a form of all-knowledge) through the process of being begotten, while also remaining the judge.
  3. Since absolute freedom from love requires a time of everything and anything being permissible, a time in which both just and unjust persons must suffer, in His Loving Kindness, God fully demonstrates the growth process from complete ignorance of the rules of love to the complete perfection of the rules of love. Therefore, the person who created everything must sacrifice all-knowledge, wisdom, and perfect love to become all-wise and perfectly loving, in order to fully share with others, namely enemies of love, how they too can become all-wise and perfectly loving.
I think you have something there, but I’m not exactly sure what it is.

Questions:
  1. What exactly are the “rules of love?” (You almost make it sound like there is a game to play - the “game of love.”)
  2. Are “1,” “2,” and “3” above the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit respectively?
 
Jesus Christ backed up his teaching with miracles and especially from rising from the dead. Now, in my mind, that makes his teaching very rational to except.
So did Sathya Sai Baba, He was considered by his followers to be an avatar (an incarnation of God) who performed various miracles (materialisations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects, miraculous healings, resurrections, clairvoyance, bilocation, etc.). In fact, an online female friend (one of his devotees) sent me via mail a small sample of “vibuthi” (the holy ash he allegedly materialized). She told me to place some of the ash on my tongue to receive healing. Do you believe it would have been rational for me to do so?
 
I think you have something there, but I’m not exactly sure what it is.
Thanks for your consideration!
  1. What exactly are the “rules of love?” (You almost make it sound like there is a game to play - the “game of love.”)
Although you could term it a game to play, I enjoy considering it as an invitation to the most amazing experience!
My simplest and most universal understanding of the rules of love are: Do everything for the Greatest Being.
However, more defined, the rules of love are: Be Patient; Be Kind. (1 Cor 13:4)
A little more detailed: Always freely be patient and kind for unbreakable peace with unending joy. (CCC#1: …make man share in his own blessed life.)
Even more detailed: Always freely be patient and kind, even in the face of unjust cruelty to the point of death, for the experience of unbreakable peace with unending joy for all. (Embrace your cross.)
The pinnacle of the rules of love are: Always freely being and sharing the means to freely be patient and kind for the Greatest Being with all your feelings, future actions (feelings and thoughts included), thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self. (The Greatest Commandment)
  1. Are “1,” “2,” and “3” above the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit respectively?
Yes.

Thanks for further discussion! You are really helping me refine my understandings!
 
The NT does not explicitly teach the doctrine of the Trinity. In fact, the doctrine of the Trinity took several centuries to be formalized. So, when you say it was divinely revealed, how exactly was it divinely revealed? It apparently was divinely revealed to early Christian theologians who engaged in philosophical reflection.
God as Father, God as Son (Logos) and God as Spirit are revealed in Scripture. The synthesis of these revealed truths as the Trinity came from the teaching authority of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit. That is why I mentioned in my previous post “the revelation of Scripture and the Church.” I am not (and never was) opposed to the notion that philosophy and metaphysics can give us insight into the reality of the Trinity. What I do oppose is your assertion that the Trinity can be be known through metaphysical and philosophical inquiry alone, and more to the point, that faith in revelation is per se unreasonable.
The “Logos” is the rational principle. It was first used by the pre-Socratic philosopher Heraclitus. Stoicism identified it with the divine. Philo, a Hellenized Jewish philosopher, adopted it when and attempted to synthesize it with the Jewish wisdom tradition. The author of the Gospel of John (allegedly the apostle John) co-opted it and ascribed it to Christ. And Hegel gives it the fullest articulation in the form of the dialectic.
While interesting, all words have an etymology. The problem is that neither Heraclitus nor Aristotle identified Logos as God, much less a person of God. The Hellenic Jews used the term, although as part of a revealed religion and not as part of the concept of Trinity. If anything, it appears that the etymology of the word “Logos” undercuts your position that revelation is blind faith, unnecessary for understanding the Trinity.
Christianity is not the only religious tradition to have a “trinitarian” conception of the divine. Other religious traditions have one as well. For example, both Hinduism and Buddhism have doctrines similar to the Trinity (see the “Trimurti” and the “Trikaya”).
And? Hinduism is also a revealed religion. Relying upon it for your conclusions only reinforces my argument. The Buddhist Trikaya references potential attributes of the human person, not of a theistic God; which of course it wouldn’t since this idea is foreign to Buddhism.

The concept of a “triune” God, as you put it in your original post, is inescapably tied to supernatural revelation. All the more so in western thought where the cultural and sociological influence of Christianity is unavoidable. Why you would seek to avoid the conclusion that you’ve informed yourself with the same revelation is a bit mystifying. Does it have something to do with your declaration that basing ones concept of the Trinity on revelation amounts to “blind faith”?
 
The pinnacle of the rules of love are: Always freely being and sharing the means to freely be patient and kind for the Greatest Being with all your feelings, future actions (feelings and thoughts included), thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self. (The Greatest Commandment)
Why not make it simple by invoking one rule, namely, the “Golden Rule” (a.k.a. the “ethic of reciprocity”)?
Thanks for further discussion! You are really helping me refine my understandings!
But it appears your Trinity requires that there be a creation.
 
Why not make it simple by invoking one rule, namely, the “Golden Rule” (a.k.a. the “ethic of reciprocity”)?
Although it is acceptable to keep it simple with graceful truths such as the “Golden Rule,” the reason one should explore complexities of grace is to better help others understand the Wisdom in Grace, especially because sensible arguments are more compelling. 😉
But it appears your Trinity requires that there be a creation.
Sure. However, with God, creation is certain. Therefore, God will always be the Holy Trinity.
What metaphysical problem(s) does it solve?
If you were the person who created everything, the Holy Trinity is your means to completing your greatest creation.

Thanks for further consideration! I am interested in your reasoning for “Why the Trinity?” Please share.
 
There may well be an infinity of persons but it doesn’t follow that they are **all **
The issue is the nature of the Holy Trinity** before** the Creation of other persons. There is no reason to believe anyone else has co-existed eternally with God - and even if they had they would not be equal to their Creator…
 
The issue is the nature of the Holy Trinity** before** the Creation of other persons.
God’s existence is eternal (i.e timeless). As such, there is no “before” or “after” with God, just an ever-present “now.”
There is no reason to believe anyone else has co-existed eternally with God - and even if they had they would not be equal to their Creator…
Well, the CCC teaches in Article 460 that "The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “The Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”
 
Sure. However, with God, creation is certain. Therefore, God will always be the Holy Trinity.
But it appears that you are arguing that the creation is necessary. Moreover, you appear to be arguing that God is triune because the creation demands it. I don’t necessarily have a problem with this view. But I believe Catholicism does.
 
The issue is the nature of the Holy Trinity** before**
Precisely! Only God is eternal. Therefore all other persons have existed subsequent to Creation,

There is no reason to believe anyone else has co-existed eternally with God - and even if they had they would not be equal to their Creator…

Well, the CCC teaches in Article 460 that "The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “The Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”
“sons of God” are essentially different from “the Son of God” and can never be regarded as identical with God. They have been created and cannot exist independently whereas the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are eternal and exist necessarily.

“sharers” is the keyword. It excludes similarity in every respect. We remain distinct individuals and do not become omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent. We become sons (and daughters) of God and identifiable with God only to the extent that we are inspired by love…
 
It becomes why is everything seen in the world reflective, God created man in his own image. Soul, conscious and unconscious mind, three but the creature and not in perfect harmony, why becomes why is everything seen reflective, but reason is reflective in its nature, so it seems to be the learning in the concept Pure Reason.
 
Precisely! Only God is eternal. Therefore all other persons have existed subsequent to Creation,

There is no reason to believe anyone else has co-existed eternally with God - and even if they had they would not be equal to their Creator…
The “eternally begotten” is co-eternal with God, Right?
 
But it appears that you are arguing that the creation is necessary. Moreover, you appear to be arguing that God is triune because the creation demands it. I don’t necessarily have a problem with this view. But I believe Catholicism does.
For further clarification, although with God, creation is certain, creation is not necessary. God does not need to create, nor needs to be the Holy Trinity. Instead, God wants to be the Holy Trinity because God wants to share love with others.
There is no reason to believe anyone else has co-existed eternally with God…
Emphasis mine.
The “eternally begotten” is co-eternal with God, Right?
Although in consideration of God as a nature, the Son is co-eternal with God. In consideration of God as a person, the “eternally begotten” is God, and not “anyone else.”

Thanks for the very enjoyable discussion! You are helping me tremendously!
 
For further clarification, although with God, creation is certain, creation is not necessary. God does not need to create, nor needs to be the Holy Trinity. Instead, God wants to be the Holy Trinity because God wants to share love with others.
Are you arguing that God could have chosen not to be triune?
 
I find a sensible argument to be more compelling than one that is not. I’m actually a trinitarian. But my trinitarianism is based on reason…on some kind of rationale. As I see it, if we aren’t able to articulate a reason for why God should be triune, then we have no reason to believe that God is triune. It’s that simple.

So, with that in mind, I pose the following question(s): Why the Trinity? Why should we believe that God is triune? What metaphysical problem(s) does it solve?

Note: This is a philosophical forum (at least, it purports to be one). So, I am asking a philosophical question and I am expecting a philosophical response - some kind of argument that appeals to my rational sensibilities.
Here I am again offering my two cents without reading everyone else’s opinions;
But anyway, it seems to me that God saw a need to educate and to help mankind to learn to be good after having sent the flood to eliminate the evil of the initial population of His good Earth;

So He needed to make a direct communication with His people;
But however, He saw a need to express Himself more humanly than He did with Moses when He appeared on Sinai as the Burning Bush and addressed Himself as “I AM that I Am”.

Enter Mary, Joseph and the baby Son of God Jesus delivered by the Holy Spirit into the womb of Mary
And from there we know the rest, that Jesus did teach us to love one another and to forsake sin and the devil so that we could achieve everlasting happiness in Heaven through Jesus Christ our Savior and His apostles.

PS:
Did God not see a need to show us through Jesus Christ His Son that we can ascend into Heaven after we die?

rex
 
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