Why tithe?

[rcjones]

Why do so many react as if ‘tithe’ is a dirty word?

Because there so are many who claim that we are not under law, being under grace… except for the law of tithing. It is a way that people are manipulated into giving out of guilt rather than love.

 

[rcjones]

That’s a good point in your ref to Abraham, and Jacob. I would suggest that it goes farther back then that. When God placed the Man in the Garden, God gave the Man the job of tending the Garden. Also Cain and Abel also made offerings in accordance to the work they did. But God had respect for one’s offering, and not the other’s, and yet both desired to be accepted.

I am not sure I would call the work of Adam a tithe, I think that was a vocation or consecration.

With Cain and Abel it doesn’t say how much they gave. They were certainly offerings, and I would guess more akin to the freewill offerings rather than an obligated tithe upon Israel because of Jacob, or a freewill tithe of Abraham which was not of his work, but the spoils of war.

In the sensus plenior Cain and Abel together are a picture of Christ. Cain offered ‘some’ veggies, where Abel offered the best of his flock. In the literal we discern that Cain’s offering did not honor God as God and was more akin to being religious to manipulate God, where Abel’s was out of Love and devotion.

In the sensus plenior Cain’s offering is an ordinary offering. So we ask the riddle, In what way did Jesus offer an ordinary offering? It was his perfect life. It was ordinary because we were all created to offer God our perfect devotion, though we don’t. But it is the offering expected of all, and hence it is ordinary. Since Jesus’s perfect life was insufficient to save us, he still had to die. So when Cain kills Abel, it is a shadow of Jesus laying down his own life for us. The imagery of resurrection continues with Seth being born to replace Abel and him being fruitful and multiplying through his children.

Hear God speaking to Jesus at Gethsemane through the words of God to Cain : If you do right, won’t you be lifted up?

With this imagery, Cain’s sacrifice was the works of Christ in the flesh unto which we all were created (harvesting the garden). And Abel’s Sacrifice is that of the life of Jesus… the shedding of blood.

 

[Bookcat]

Why do so many react as if ‘tithe’ is a dirty word?

It is not a dirty word…the problem comes in when they think they must tithe…when they are not required to…thus they are confused…and can scruple about things…

One just needs to be clear …the Church per se does not require any tithe…but to give according to ones ability…and yes of course Christians ought to live generousity.

To tithe can be a great practice…it is not a dirty word.

 

[DPMartin]

Tithe is not Binding on Christians… As expained above. One may of course still do so…it can good…but one is of course to support the Church (details above)…

Not to tithe does not in any way disrespect God etc…

God does not require a Tithe from us…nor lambs being sacrificed…nor circumcision etc

We are now “in Christ” …we are Christians…

But yes give according to ones ability…and be generious

and of course “God loves a cheerful giver”

Bookcat

No my friend, I disagree with you completely, what the Lord God requires of you, you are able. Christ is His agreement (Covenant with man, fulfilled) and any agreement or contract goes both ways. God originally called the commandments His Covenant. And any agreement between one and another is binding. To use such things as sacrifice of lambs and circumcision as antiquated and of no use after Christ. Is foolishness. For in order to understand what it is that Jesus fulfilled, is the Commandments the Law and the Prophets. Which is what God requires of us that we had not the ability to do to God’s satisfaction. Therefore in Christ you are able.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat

No my friend, I disagree with you completely, what the Lord God requires of you, you are able. Christ is His agreement (Covenant with man, fulfilled) and any agreement or contract goes both ways. God originally called the commandments His Covenant. And any agreement between one and another is binding. To use such things as sacrifice of lambs and circumcision as antiquated and of no use after Christ. Is foolishness. For in order to understand what it is that Jesus fulfilled, is the Commandments the Law and the Prophets. Which is what God requires of us that we had not the ability to do to God’s satisfaction. Therefore in Christ you are able.

If this was just *my *personal “opinion” …so no need for any disagreement.

The tith is simply not required…one is free of course to tithe…and such can even be very very good for a particular person to do…but we are not under the Torah …as Paul fought so hard to make all Christians understand…and the Church per se does not require any tithe (the Lord does not require it of us either…outside of course some personal commitment or something like that where we …(which could be dispensed too…by the way).

Good explaination here from Jimmy Akin (Chief Apologist of Catholic Answers)

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/02/tithing_giving_.html

Yes we must give according to our ability…and yes let us be generous but the tithe is no longer required.

 

[Bookcat]

A bit more:

Good to read 1 Cor 16:2

Another Catholic Answers Apologist:

Q: I was born and raised in the Mormon Church, went on a mission, and did everything a good Mormon should do, including tithing. Since my wife and I converted to the Catholic Church we still have nagging doubts that we should be tithing to our parish (as we did when we were Mormons: ten percent of our gross income), except that it’s much harder to do so now that we have several children. The Mormon Church taught me that tithing is mandatory. What’s the Catholic Church’s position?

A: Although the Church teaches that offering some form of material support to the Church is obligatory for all Catholic adults who are able to do so, it doesn’t specify what percent of one’s income should be given. Remember, tithing was an Old Testament obligation that was incumbent on the Jews under the Law of Moses. Christians are dispensed from the obligation of tithing ten percent of their incomes, but not from the obligation to help the Church.

The key to understanding how God wants us to give to the Church is found in 1 Corinthians 16:2, “On the first day of the week [Sunday] each of you should set aside whatever he can afford,” and in 2 Corinthians 9:5-8, “So I thought it necessary to encourage the brothers to go on ahead to you and arrange in advance for your promised gift [donation], so that in this way it might be ready as a bountiful gift and not as an exaction. Consider this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each must do as already determined without sadness or compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Moreover, God is able to make every grace abundant for you, so that in all things, always having all you need, you may have an abundance for every good work.”

To paraphrase: God doesn’t demand a fixed amount of money from us; he wants us to give from the heart. If people are forced by their church to give a certain percent of their income, that’s extortion. If they give freely and cheerfully the amount they are able, that’s a gift. catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9205qq.asp

Q: I’m not sure how much I’m supposed to be tithing. Is it 10 percent of my gross income or 10 percent of my net income?

A: The obligation to tithe (i.e., to give 10 percent of one’s gross income) was binding only on the Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic law (Matt. 5:17), so even Jews are no longer bound by it. But this doesn’t mean we’re not obligated to support the Church—we are—but there is no longer a specific percentage required.

Scripture provides insight on how Christians should give:

On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper. (1 Cor. 16:2)

The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:6–7)

There is no mandatory requirement to give a specific amount of money or percentage of our income. We should each decide for ourselves how much to give and then do so in the true spirit of giving a gift.
—Jim Blackburn catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605qq.asp

 

[Bookcat]

The Church teaches in the Catechism that “The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities.[87]” CCC 2043. and the Compendium says :“5) to help to provide for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability”. (CCCC)

People need to be very aware that they have both an obligation to a certain extent (to give according to ones ability)…and freedom…and are called to be generous as Christians–in a joyful way.

Also read: 2 Cor 9:6-7, 11

( and 2 Cor 8:79, 13-15)

 

[DPMartin]

I am not sure I would call the work of Adam a tithe, I think that was a vocation or consecration.

With Cain and Abel it doesn’t say how much they gave. They were certainly offerings, and I would guess more akin to the freewill offerings rather than an obligated tithe upon Israel because of Jacob, or a freewill tithe of Abraham which was not of his work, but the spoils of war.

In the sensus plenior Cain and Abel together are a picture of Christ. Cain offered ‘some’ veggies, where Abel offered the best of his flock. In the literal we discern that Cain’s offering did not honor God as God and was more akin to being religious to manipulate God, where Abel’s was out of Love and devotion.

In the sensus plenior Cain’s offering is an ordinary offering. So we ask the riddle, In what way did Jesus offer an ordinary offering? It was his perfect life. It was ordinary because we were all created to offer God our perfect devotion, though we don’t. But it is the offering expected of all, and hence it is ordinary. Since Jesus’s perfect life was insufficient to save us, he still had to die. So when Cain kills Abel, it is a shadow of Jesus laying down his own life for us. The imagery of resurrection continues with Seth being born to replace Abel and him being fruitful and multiplying through his children.

Hear God speaking to Jesus at Gethsemane through the words of God to Cain : If you do right, won’t you be lifted up?

With this imagery, Cain’s sacrifice was the works of Christ in the flesh unto which we all were created (harvesting the garden). And Abel’s Sacrifice is that of the life of Jesus… the shedding of blood.

jcjones

thanks for the reply

(There’s probably typo’s in the fallowing that I missed, I apologize if there be.)

Very nice stuff; most excellent in the understanding of the bread and the wine. But I am not sure it applies here, but then again, it could.

When God said to Abraham (then Abram) Gen:15:1: After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Note “I am”

what was meat by this? Or:

Ex:3:14: And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Note: “I am”

and when Jesus said Jn:18:6: As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Note “I am”

and needless to say how many time the Lord God said “**I am **the Lord your God”

who shall give you the power to say “I am” ten thousand years from now? Unless it shall be in Jesus Christ.

Should we not respect the Power of Life to give Life with what is at our hand? And if we don’t then what should we expect at God’s Hand. And also note that the Lord God made it known that “the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground” and to be heard of God the Almighty is just how valuable? And consider that everyone who sot the ear of the Lord God in order to be heard sacrificed what? From then on.

Truly to be heard of God our Creator is through His Sacrifice Jesus Christ.

But in this case we speak of tithe. Note that Abraham made a decision to do what after he heard that Lot was captured? And would he have, if Lot was not amongst the captured? Also note in this same event that it was Melchizedek that came to Abraham. (Note also that this is the first time in scripture were bread and wine are mentioned together and the second time it is mentioned. The first time wine is mentioned is with Noah. The first time bread is mentioned; Gen:3:19: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; and seconed time bread is mentioned is with Melchizedek.

Gen:14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Note king of Salem now known as Jerusalem, and priest of the most high God. And both titles, if you will, we know is Jesus Christ. Who ordained if you will the Bread and the Wine. Hence He Jesus brought the acceptable Bread and Wine.

And fyi the Jewish or Hebrew state in Tora commentary that Melchizedek is Shem son of Noah. And Shem did not pass away until Jacob was 50 years old (if my memory serves) and Noah was tenth generation from Adam and Abram was tenth generation from Noah. The bread mentioned with Adam and the Wine mentioned with Noah.

Son of Noah: Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Son of Abraham: Isaac sacrifice that God provided Chosen by God through which the world shall be blessed, and mankind is Justified.

Therefore if you have received Christ Jesus and the Bread and the Wine. What was the reason for not respecting God’s Work with tithe?

 

[DPMartin]

If this was just *my *personal “opinion” …so no need for any disagreement.

The tith is simply not required…one is free of course to tithe…and such can even be very very good for a particular person to do…but we are not under the Torah …as Paul fought so hard to make all Christians understand…and the Church per se does not require any tithe (the Lord does not require it of us either…outside of course some personal commitment or something like that where we …(which could be dispensed too…by the way).

Good explaination here from Jimmy Akin (Chief Apologist of Catholic Answers)

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/02/tithing_giving_.html

Yes we must give according to our ability…and yes let us be generous but the tithe is no longer required.

BookCat
thanks for the reply

The truth is my friend in Christ Jesus is that opinion is not important, I have no need to be righerer then you, if that makes sense but yet it heathy to be heard, in God’s community.

The Truth is the Truth no matter what the Truth is.

And for case of tithing:

Christ Jesus fulfilled the Tora.
What is good for the Master is good for the servant , or disciple. Therefore the fulfillment of the Master is Good. Hence what is good for the disciple? But that which the Master has done, and the fulfillment of the same in the disciple.

I also refer you to posting #28 above

Also those not in Christ are not bond to God’s agreement, but those in Christ are.