Why 'True Mass'?

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patrick457

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About two to three years ago, I asked why the EF is known as ‘Mass of (the) Ages’. I’m back with another question: why do some apply to it the epithet the ‘True Mass’?

What does the word ‘true’ mean and what is its connotations? Is ‘true’ used in relation to the other liturgies of the Church in both East and West (either existing or defunct): that somehow, the Roman Liturgy (more specifically, the form of the Roman Rite contained in the typical editions of the Roman Missal that were published from 1570 to 1962) is more ‘truer’ than the Ambrosian, the Mozarabic, the Celtic, the Gallican, the Byzantine, or the Syrian? Or is it used in a Roman-specific sense? 🤷

Once again: THIS IS NOT A DEBATE THREAD. NO DEBATING OR ARGUING, IF POSSIBLE.
 
My strong guess is that the most common motive for use of the phrase these days is to disparage the Mass of Paul VI by saying-without-saying that it is a “false Mass.” For people whose mindset is limited to the conflict between those two forms, the Ambrosian and Mozarabic rites, etc., do not even enter into the equation, and from what I have seen any attempt to bring them up results in the response, “Yes, maybe, but that’s very rare and it’s not what we’re talking about, so stay on topic, willya?”

I think it’s really that simple as far as general use of the phrase in ordinary contexts goes.
 
MarkThompson said:
My strong guess is that the most common motive for use of the phrase these days is to disparage the Mass of Paul VI by saying-without-saying that it is a “false Mass.” For people whose mindset is limited to the conflict between those two forms, the Ambrosian and Mozarabic rites, etc., do not even enter into the equation, and from what I have seen any attempt to bring them up results in the response, “Yes, maybe, but that’s very rare and it’s not what we’re talking about, so stay on topic, willya?”

I think it’s really that simple as far as general use of the phrase in ordinary contexts goes.
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And when more Anglicans come into the Church and the Anglican Use becomes more common, I wonder what then…
 
Since the phrase “Mass of the Ages” is a misnomer, with no basis in fact, the same can be said of the phrase “True Mass,” used, as Mark said, to disparage the Mass of Pope Paul VI.
 
ConstantineTG said:
And when more Anglicans come into the Church and the Anglican Use becomes more common, I wonder what then…
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Not to mention the Eastern rites.

There are many “true” Masses.

They are the ones that are valid. That includes the OF.

There might be some valid aesthetic differences between rites. Some of those aesthetic elements are basic enough to be objective, but many are also subjective.
 
OraLabora said:
Not to mention the Eastern rites.

There are many “true” Masses.

They are the ones that are valid. That includes the OF.

There might be some valid aesthetic differences between rites. Some of those aesthetic elements are basic enough to be objective, but many are also subjective.
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Amen.
 
patrick457 said:
Once again: THIS IS NOT A DEBATE THREAD. NO DEBATING OR ARGUING, IF POSSIBLE.
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That may not be possible and still answer your question. Advertising (or propaganda) 101: Control the language and you control the mind. The battle of labels matters, on Madison Avenue or in 1984. You can ask such questions, but the important thing is to look through such tactics to the actual pros and cons of any argument. Look at the abortion issue where both sides avoid the label about the very core of the argument. They choose pro-choice and pro-life. Why? Because life and choice are both good things.
 
pnewton said:
That may not be possible and still answer your question. Advertising (or propaganda) 101: Control the language and you control the mind. The battle of labels matters, on Madison Avenue or in 1984. You can ask such questions, but the important thing is to look through such tactics to the actual pros and cons of any argument. Look at the abortion issue where both sides avoid the label about the very core of the argument. They choose pro-choice and pro-life. Why? Because life and choice are both good things.
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Good words to heed, pn.
 
MarkThompson said:
My strong guess is that the most common motive for use of the phrase these days is to disparage the Mass of Paul VI by saying-without-saying that it is a “false Mass.” For people whose mindset is limited to the conflict between those two forms, the Ambrosian and Mozarabic rites, etc., do not even enter into the equation, and from what I have seen any attempt to bring them up results in the response, “Yes, maybe, but that’s very rare and it’s not what we’re talking about, so stay on topic, willya?”

I think it’s really that simple as far as general use of the phrase in ordinary contexts goes.
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Hmm, okay, I see the point.
In reality though, I think it would be a horrible disrespect for our Catholic brethren who use the Byzantine liturgical tradition - ooh, let me see: the Albanian, Belarusian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Greek Byzantine, Hungarian, Italo-Albanian, Macedonian, Melkite, Romanian, Russian, Ruthenian, Slovak, Ukranian Churches. 14 sui iuris Churches in all - to be labelled as using something ‘very rare’! 😉
 
pnewton said:
That may not be possible and still answer your question. Advertising (or propaganda) 101: Control the language and you control the mind. The battle of labels matters, on Madison Avenue or in 1984. You can ask such questions, but the important thing is to look through such tactics to the actual pros and cons of any argument. Look at the abortion issue where both sides avoid the label about the very core of the argument. They choose pro-choice and pro-life. Why? Because life and choice are both good things.
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Good words. Taken. 👍
 
There is only one True Mass. Its celebrated across different Rites and different Forms, all are the same Mass, equal with one another.
 
ConstantineTG said:
There is only one True Mass. Its celebrated across different Rites and different Forms, all are the same Mass, equal with one another.
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…but some are celebrated better than others.

(I refer not to different Rites or forms of the Liturgy, but to reverence and adherence to the rubrics and teachings of Holy Mother Church.)
 
ljubim said:
I am wondering, where have you heard the phrase “true Mass?” I’ve never heard it this way before. Needless to say the title annoys me…
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Me too. True Mass as opposed to what?

That said, occassionally, I will hear something like a “real” Mass, I suppose in a more affectionate manner though, perhaps to justify the length one needs to go to get to a Mass that is more spiritually fulfilling.
 
Bbigam said:
…but some are celebrated better than others.

(I refer not to different Rites or forms of the Liturgy, but to reverence and adherence to the rubrics and teachings of Holy Mother Church.)
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No such thing. There is one sacrifice, one Eucharist. I don’t know how anything can diminish Jesus.
 
ljubim said:
I am wondering, where have you heard the phrase “true Mass?” I’ve never heard it this way before. Needless to say the title annoys me…
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Let’s just say, based on my observation that about 80% of the folks who use this term tend to be also the same ones who would use terms like ‘true Catholic’ or ‘true Faith’ to distinguish themselves from (purportedly ‘false’, or so they imply) post-VII Catholicism. Yep, THAT crowd. That said, not all who use the term are like this.
 
ConstantineTG said:
No such thing. There is one sacrifice, one Eucharist. I don’t know how anything can diminish Jesus.
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Well, according to the catechism, all Masses are of equal worth, whether they have short readings or longer readings. However, some are more “solemn” than others, such as Solemn High Mass as opposed to Low Mass. Or Easter Papal Masses as opposed to Catholic bookstore chapels.
 
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