Why was the Devil allowed to lie to Eve?

[Charlemagne_III]

What strikes me as a more interesting question is why Satan lied to himself that he would be better off battling God than submitting to God’s will.

Yes, of course Pride is the answer.

But Satan was supposed to be a really intelligent angel, surely more intelligent than Adam. And there was no devil to tempt him. So did he tempt himself? If so, this suggests that God planted in him the freedom to choose evil, just as he planted in Adam that same freedom to self destruct.

 

[mikekle]

What strikes me as a more interesting question is why Satan lied to himself that he would be better off battling God than submitting to God’s will.

Yes, of course Pride is the answer.

But Satan was supposed to be a really intelligent angel, surely more intelligent than Adam.

Yes, this does not make sense. Satan would have KNOWN how all powerful God is, he would have KNOWN rebellion is futile, so either God is not as all powerful as we think or there is more to the story than we understand. Im thinking its the latter, the story of the ‘fall’ is just a metaphor/ symbolic, its not literal.

Pride is one thing, but even the most prideful person recognizes limits, quite a few people have thought they can get away with robbing a bank, so they have pride in that sense, but so far, none have thought they can rob Fort Knox and get away, and these are just lowly humans! Successfully robbing ft knox would be the equivalent with trying to overthrow Heaven, even someone with pride can see its just not possible.

 

[Ion]

Yes, this does not make sense. Satan would have KNOWN how all powerful God is, he would have KNOWN rebellion is futile, so either God is not as all powerful as we think or there is more to the story than we understand. Im thinking its the latter, the story of the ‘fall’ is just a metaphor/ symbolic, its not literal.

Pride is one thing, but even the most prideful person recognizes limits, quite a few people have thought they can get away with robbing a bank, so they have pride in that sense, but so far, none have thought they can rob Fort Knox and get away, and these are just lowly humans! Successfully robbing ft knox would be the equivalent with trying to overthrow Heaven, even someone with pride can see its just not possible.

But isn’t true that Satan battled archangel Gabriel with his angels, and not God himself? To battle God himself it would be a contradiction. I think it is a non sense to say that God is the enemy of Satan as a person. God madee the. Hell for devils and put them there as that is the proper place for their choice.

 

[Dorothy]

Our finite minds cannot understand the infinite mysteries of our awesome LORD.

Those in heaven are falling eternally into the LORD in an ecstasy of love.

 

[Giovonni]

What strikes me as a more interesting question is why Satan lied to himself that he would be better off battling God than submitting to God’s will.

Yes, of course Pride is the answer.

But Satan was supposed to be a really intelligent angel, surely more intelligent than Adam. And there was no devil to tempt him. So did he tempt himself? If so, this suggests that God planted in him the freedom to choose evil, just as he planted in Adam that same freedom to self destruct.

It wouldn’t seem that a being or person can tempt themselves. We may justify our actions, but I’m not sure we have control over what we choose to desire. Ultimately the reason we are allowed anything is because it is all part of God’s plan.

 

[fisherman_carl]

I think that God had a plan for us that allowed for the possibility of us falling so that we can have the opportunity to become more united to God through his salvation and mercy. . God gave us the power of the intellect and will. This means we have the ability to choose our own direction, whether good or evil. Therefore, At some point, regardless of the circumstances (the fruit story is a convenient allusion to this) we would have to face moral choices, to do good or evil. That there was an evil influence does not exuse us from choosing evil, but it does lessen our culpability. And perhaps this allows us to have another chance through the salvation that would be provided in Jesus. A completely evil influence gives us one possible influence or direction we can follow. However, the influence of Christ gives a completely good influence to follow. Since we now know what is good or evil we become accountable for our choices.

 

[BobCatholic]

But why was he allowed in the garden in the first place?

He committed the first sin, but Adam and Eve got the boot.

 

[Della]

But why was he allowed in the garden in the first place?

He committed the first sin, but Adam and Eve got the boot.

See post #6: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14142708&postcount=6.

 

[Giovonni]

I think that God had a plan for us that allowed for the possibility of us falling so that we can have the opportunity to become more united to God through his salvation and mercy. . God gave us the power of the intellect and will. This means we have the ability to choose our own direction, whether good or evil. Therefore, At some point, regardless of the circumstances (the fruit story is a convenient allusion to this) we would have to face moral choices, to do good or evil. That there was an evil influence does not exuse us from choosing evil, but it does lessen our culpability. And perhaps this allows us to have another chance through the salvation that would be provided in Jesus. A completely evil influence gives us one possible influence or direction we can follow. However, the influence of Christ gives a completely good influence to follow. Since we now know what is good or evil we become accountable for our choices.

In the garden Adam and Eve were created good and had not yet eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were not predisposed to break the law until the great deception. It was at this point they viewed the fruit as desirable. You mention culpability, but I think most jury’s would see this as textbook entrapment.

You also mention that God had a plan that allowed for the possibility of us falling. But I don’t think there was a possibility of us not falling since the fall is what paves the way for Jesus and the glory of his resurrection.

 

[BobCatholic]

Innocence wasn’t enough to protect our first parents from betraying God–they needed to love him with divine love.

If they had the ability to do so, then this would be a reasonable standard. But they didn’t have this ability. They were created imperfect, and thus failed.

Gee, write buggy software and get the blue screen of death. Then punish the system for crashing. That is totally reasonable (not).

 

[Della]

If they had the ability to do so, then this would be a reasonable standard. But they didn’t have this ability. They were created imperfect, and thus failed.

Gee, write buggy software and get the blue screen of death. Then punish the system for crashing. That is totally reasonable (not).

Your basic premise is flawed therefore your conclusions are flawed. GIGO.

 

[Dorothy]

If they had the ability to do so, then this would be a reasonable standard. But they didn’t have this ability. They were created imperfect, and thus failed.

Gee, write buggy software and get the blue screen of death. Then punish the system for crashing. That is totally reasonable (not).

They had sanctifying grace to the fullness…and free will.

God is infinitely perfect!!!

 

[BobCatholic]

They had sanctifying grace to the fullness…and free will.

God is infinitely perfect!!!

Yes, God is perfect.

Adam and Eve were not.

Tell me, why on earth would they sin like that?

Did they say “I don’t want to listen to God, I’m going to do what I want to do” - they had the imperfection of pride.

Did they just accept anything the snake told them without thinking? - then they had the imperfection of naivete.

Did they just fall for the lie that the snake told them? Then they had the imperfection of stupidity.

Either which way, they were created imperfect.

They had buggy code. No wonder they crashed!

Your basic premise is flawed therefore your conclusions are flawed. GIGO.

If the software crashes, are you saying there were no bugs in the software?

Buggy code = software crashes.

Adam & Eve = created imperfect = GIGO. No wonder they fell!

 

[Della]

Yes, God is perfect.

Adam and Eve were not.

Tell me, why on earth would they sin like that?

Did they say “I don’t want to listen to God, I’m going to do what I want to do” - they had the imperfection of pride.

Did they just accept anything the snake told them without thinking? - then they had the imperfection of naivete.

Did they just fall for the lie that the snake told them? Then they had the imperfection of stupidity.

Either which way, they were created imperfect.

They had buggy code. No wonder they crashed!

If the software crashes, are you saying there were no bugs in the software?

Buggy code = software crashes.

Adam & Eve = created imperfect = GIGO. No wonder they fell!

No, and again no, no, no. Adam and Eve were not created “imperfect” but rather they believed a lie, and decided they knew better than God. Even a perfect being can come to a wrong conclusion if he relies on his own wisdom rather than divine wisdom–as you have done.

Divine wisdom had made only one law–an easy one to keep, but they didn’t love God enough to trust him–again, that says nothing about their perfection or lack of it, it only tells us they relied on themselves instead of on God.

Adam and Eve should have gone to God (who walked with them in the Garden–so he was always available to them) for better understanding. Instead, they believed they could “have their cake and eat it too” as the expression goes. Well, they found out otherwise.

 

[o_mlly]

Supercomputer:
The devil remains God’s creature and is subject to Him. The devil in the garden and the devils now can do nothing unless God permits it.

God seeing all things at once knows the last act of this human drama. His gift of hope, that is trust in God’s goodness, allows us to accept that God only permits that which is best for the salvation of our souls. Felix culpa,

 

[Dorothy]

Yes, God is perfect.

Adam and Eve were not.

Tell me, why on earth would they sin like that?

Did they say “I don’t want to listen to God, I’m going to do what I want to do” - they had the imperfection of pride.

Did they just accept anything the snake told them without thinking? - then they had the imperfection of naivete.

Did they just fall for the lie that the snake told them? Then they had the imperfection of stupidity.

Either which way, they were created imperfect.

They had buggy code. No wonder they crashed!

If the software crashes, are you saying there were no bugs in the software?

Buggy code = software crashes.

Adam & Eve = created imperfect = GIGO. No wonder they fell!

Our God-given Magisterium through gifted theologians that were approved explain it much better.

 

[Giovonni]

No, and again no, no, no. Adam and Eve were not created “imperfect” but rather they believed a lie, and decided they knew better than God. Even a perfect being can come to a wrong conclusion if he relies on his own wisdom rather than divine wisdom–as you have done.

Divine wisdom had made only one law–an easy one to keep, but they didn’t love God enough to trust him–again, that says nothing about their perfection or lack of it, it only tells us they relied on themselves instead of on God.

Adam and Eve should have gone to God (who walked with them in the Garden–so he was always available to them) for better understanding. Instead, they believed they could “have their cake and eat it too” as the expression goes. Well, they found out otherwise.

It seems that they were perfect in their imperfections. You say they should have gone to God for better understanding. Then ask, why didn’t they? It is because 1) they had limited rationale - they did not know good and evil, which resulted in them believing a lie and 2) they had a desire to be like God but without God as the catechism says. Where did that desire come from? It was created within them.

God knew this from before the beginning, and through imperfect beings his perfect will is done.

 

[truetofaith]

God gave Adam & Eve everything in the Garden except one thing…the Tree of Knowledge of good & evil.
A small test of their love & faithfulness to Him…they failed!

Just a little urging by the serpent and Eve disobeyed God & brought Adam along with her.

 

[Della]

It seems that they were perfect in their imperfections. You say they should have gone to God for better understanding. Then ask, why didn’t they? It is because 1) they had limited rationale - they did not know good and evil, which resulted in them believing a lie and 2) they had a desire to be like God but without God as the catechism says. Where did that desire come from? It was created within them.

God knew this from before the beginning, and through imperfect beings his perfect will is done.

There was nothing wrong with the desire to be like God, but they wanted to be like unto God, not godlike, but gods in their own right. God always intended us to share in his divine life, but in his good time and in his own way. They rushed things and bought into Satan’s lies due to their lack of love for God and lack of wisdom. A person can be perfect but if he lacks wisdom his perfection means nothing. Adam and Eve weren’t imperfect in their creation–they were perfect human beings, but they lacked trust in God and love for God, which is why they followed their own desires instead of doing God’s will in God time.

 

[Giovonni]

There was nothing wrong with the desire to be like God, but they wanted to be like unto God, not godlike, but gods in their own right. God always intended us to share in his divine life, but in his good time and in his own way. They rushed things and bought into Satan’s lies due to their lack of love for God and lack of wisdom. A person can be perfect but if he lacks wisdom his perfection means nothing. Adam and Eve weren’t imperfect in their creation–they were perfect human beings, but they lacked trust in God and love for God, which is why they followed their own desires instead of doing God’s will in God time.

Perfect is defined as complete in every way. Perfection is flawless. Typically we wouldn’t describe humans who lack wisdom as perfect, but in a sense they were perfect because they were part of God’s plan for glory.

As human beings we are imbued with certain desires. The desire to eat, to survive, to love and to grow both in strength and in knowledge. We do not choose these desires, they are with us from our birth. In and of themselves they are very good characteristics, but lack of wisdom allowed for these basic desires to be twisted. God knew this, but also foreknew it would pave the way for something greater, the glory of Christ.