Why was the Latin mass forbidden, now allowed

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I am sure the media played their part in giving out false information, as one can see from the hundreds of articles stating it was banned. Can anyone give any information that the Vatican tried to correct news stories stating it was banned? You guys explain the situation well, but it doesn’t seem to me that the Vatican was trying very hard to correct the wording in these stories.
 
Pope Benedict makes references to the indults to show that the Tridentine Form was not abrogated. You can’t give an indult to do something that is banned. You can give an indult to do something that is prohibitted. Another term that is used for that in Canon Law is “a suspension of the law”. You have a law or regulation, but you suspend it for a particular situation or a particular group.
Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Okay, Br. JR. Then would you say it was prohibited? And if so, how does that change the OP’s question?

Same result. You now had to request permission to celebrate a TLM.
 
Okay, Br. JR. Then would you say it was prohibited? And if so, how does that change the OP’s question?

Same result. You now had to request permission to celebrate a TLM.
It was prohibitted for practical reasons. The Church wanted to transition to the New Order. Which, by the way, it was never the intention of Pope Paul to call it the NO. It was simply the New Order of the Roman Rite.

We have to understand, the Tridentine Form was not the only form that was prohibited. I understand that it’s the most common form in the Latin Church and that most laymen don’t know any other form. But every form that was not the new form was prohibited.

Not only were forms prohibited, so were rites. The Dominican, Carhtusians and Carmelites were asked to surrender their rites. It is true that they were not ordered to do so, but Pope Paul did ask. Since the three orders are Pontifical, they surrendered their rites. The Carthusians have celebrated the same rite for almost 1,000 years. The Dominicans and Carmelites for 800 years.

Then there were the forms: Franciscan, Augustinian, Salesian, Spiritans and Benedictines. These were surrendered voluntarily when asked to do so.

The glitch was in the transition. Aside from the fact, that many people inserted things into the new form that was not intended, which we’re not going to discuss, because the topic is boring. That’s how much it gets discussed on these threads.

There was another glitch that happened very innocently. The plan was to recover the rites of the religious orders as well as the old form of the Roman Rite and introduce them again as exceptions. That’s where Pope Benedict gets the word Forma Extraordinaria.

This never happened. Pope Paul VI died. Canon Law was incomplete. Pope Paul had dismantled it with the intention of rewriting it, but he died in the process. Bl. John Paul came to power in 1978 and had to finish the work on Canon Law, which he finished around 1981 and promulgated in 1983. There was the issue of Communism that had to be dealt with. The Church became aware of the power of youth. By 1978, when Pope John Paul came to office, it was obvious that the young had taken over. Commerce, politics, entertainment and even our military organizations submitted to them In many countries, the voting age dropped and the number of young adult politicians increased. There was need to step up the outreach to the young, who now had control of world affairs, but were out of control. There was the growing concern over the Middle East. The Vatican knew that if the Church did not begin to talk to the Jews and Muslims, the Christians in the Middle East were going to be caught in the middle of a horrible massacre.

It was obvious that Pope John Pau II had his work cut out for him. The form of the liturgy was not high on the list of priorities, because we had a mass and sacraments. Whereas, people’s rights, the rights of the unborn, the youth, the Easter Churches were all in serious danger and in need of the pope’s attention and protection.

The reintegration of the old form as the extraordinary form was put on the back burner so long that bishops forgot that it was there. It is important to keep things in perspective. The Holy Father and the Roman Curia was involved in matters that had no alternatives. The question about the Tridentine Form was on hold, but the people were not without the mass and the sacraments. If these other issues were unattended, lives and souls would be lost.

The Tridentine Form was not going to stop the Communists, protect Eastern Catholics, bring Jews and Muslims to the table with the pope, go out to the young, stop abortion, deal with the ordination of women and address the Church-State relations in many countries. It is MY OPINION that the pope, bishops and religious superiors went into “triage mode”.

We can debate whether it was the best way to proceed and if we had $1.00 for every opinion, we could end world hunger. It’s a useless debate. It only serves to let people vent.

The real discussion is how to fix the damage that has been done to the OF and where to find priests who want to celebrate the EF. And I should add to this list, we have to stop the competition. No one goes to heaven for attending either form of the Mass. Only the perfection of charity can lead us to heaven. Every form and every rite of the mass is the celebration of perfect charity. We must focus on the love of the Father.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Not only were forms prohibited, so were rites. The Dominican, Carhtusians and Carmelites were asked to surrender their rites. It is true that they were not ordered to do so, but Pope Paul did ask. Since the three orders are Pontifical, they surrendered their rites. The Carthusians have celebrated the same rite for almost 1,000 years. The Dominicans and Carmelites for 800 years.

Then there were the forms: Franciscan, Augustinian, Salesian, Spiritans and Benedictines. These were surrendered voluntarily when asked to do so.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
How interesting! Did the Dominicans, Cathusians and Carmelites ever go back to their old rites?
 
How interesting! Did the Dominicans, Cathusians and Carmelites ever go back to their old rites?
No. Only this year have they been given permission to vote on whether they want to go back to it or not. They will have to get together, vote on it and abide by the majority decision.

The orders that did not have a rite of their own, but had a form of their own have been given permission to adapt the OF to their form, but not to go back to the way it was celebrated before 1963.

The cutt-off is 1963.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The Dominican rite was never prohibited by the Order. Its use depended upon the permission of the individual Provincial superiors. Fr Augustine Thompson OP has a good website dedicated to Dominican liturgy where he explains all this. The Norbertine/ Praemonstratensian rite was also never prohibited, but it is rarely celebrated.

The Benedictines do not have a mass rite of their own, but they do have the traditional Benedictine Office and it has always been said–Prime included–in a number of French abbeys such as Fontgombault, Trior and Randol. These abbeys adopted the New rite said in an extremely traditional way in 1975, but returned to the TLM in 1988. The Carthusians, I believe, chose to revise their own rite, which is still distinct from the Roman one. I really don’t know about the Carmelites, but I think they simply chose to adopt the Novus Ordo Missae of the Roman rite and abandoned their own liturgy.
 
The Dominican rite was never prohibited by the Order. Its use depended upon the permission of the individual Provincial superiors. Fr Augustine Thompson OP has a good website dedicated to Dominican liturgy where he explains all this. The Norbertine/ Praemonstratensian rite was also never prohibited, but it is rarely celebrated.

The Benedictines do not have a mass rite of their own, but they do have the traditional Benedictine Office and it has always been said–Prime included–in a number of French abbeys such as Fontgombault, Trior and Randol. These abbeys adopted the New rite said in an extremely traditional way in 1975, but returned to the TLM in 1988. The Carthusians, I believe, chose to revise their own rite, which is still distinct from the Roman one. I really don’t know about the Carmelites, but I think they simply chose to adopt the Novus Ordo Missae of the Roman rite and abandoned their own liturgy.
I knew that the Dominicans depend on the vote, I believe, of the provincial council. I’ll have to read that one. But I did not know that they had not lost the permission.

The Norbertines did what is called a “surrender” as did the Carmelites. I don’t know much about the Norbertines. I know that the Carmelites have to vote on whether to bring it back.

The Carthusians no longer use their ancient rite. They have a revised version as you said. That I know. I’m not sure if they plan on going back to the ancient rite. I have not heard anything.

The Benedictines are like the Franciscans. We have never had our own rite, but we have always had our own missals and breviaries. You have to use the word traditional there with caution. What is traditional to the Benedictine is not traditional to the Franciscan. They never celebrated the Divine Office or the mass the same way. Each school has its own form traditional form of the mass and the Divine Office.

I guess people think of the Benedictine as THE traditional Divine Office, because it’s older by several centuries. For example, Franciscans never had Prime. It was all part of Lauds. We never had choir. Everyone prayed the office and those who did not know how to read prayed the Office of the Paters.

A few friaries tried to introduce Gregorian Chant and choir after Vatican II. That lasted for a few years. It was new and sounded beautiful. Then Bl. John Paul dropped the bomb. The friars were to return to their liturgical roots. Only those houses and provinces with special permission can use it. I think the Franciscans of the Immaculate were given permission to use it regularly. They may be the only Franciscan men who can do so. Some Poor Clare houses use the Benedictine form as well, if they have always done so. Otherwise, they must use the Franciscan form or the Roman Form.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
You’re welcome! From what Norbertines have told me, I believe permission to say their rite depends upon the abbot of each community. Though I think all the Norbertine abbeys have adopted the NOM, I believe they have never prohibited their own rite, merely restricted it, and permission varies by abbey.
 
The Carthusians no longer use their ancient rite. They have a revised version as you said. That I know. I’m not sure if they plan on going back to the ancient rite. I have not heard anything
As I understand it, the Carthusian rite may be the only roman liturgy in the church which didn’t change dramatically following vatican ii. But it was revised to some extent. The eastern liturgies were also revised but also to a lesser extent. I think this is what went wrong in the roman rite: the liturgical renewal went too far.
 
I’ve learned a few things from this post as I was not aware there were more rites besides the OF and EF Masses that the public normally go to.

Looks like I may need to do a bit more reading… 🙂
 
Pork Roll:

the syro-malankara catholic rite was not touched by Vatican II. Pope Pius xi said it need never be changed.So it like it was in the 4th century.
 
the syro-malankara catholic rite was not touched by Vatican II. Pope Pius xi said it need never be changed.So it like it was in the 4th century.
I went to a syro-malabar liturgy. It was extensively post vatican ii latinized unfortunately. When I have a chance I will definitively check out the syro-malankara church.
 
we are off subect but you can see bits and pieces of the syro-malankara rite in you tube.
 
Cider
The Old Catholics broke with the Church and the Pope after Trent and they are also Sedes
IRIC

I believe the Old Catholics broke off after Vatican I not Trent
 
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