S
Spyridon
Guest
Ahh okay.
If she sings as good as she looks she must be great
If she sings as good as she looks she must be great
- Status
D
dallas_r
Guest
Sometimes the government would punish the Protestants for heresy and put jail time on them. Also, 12 US presidents were episcopalian which is a type of protestant.
A
anhphan
Guest
Does Ku Klux Klan belong to leftist (democratic party) or rightist (republican party)? Thank you very much.
A
anhphan
Guest
I really love Catholicism, whĂch is a religion of God. Now I partly understand why there have been no Catholic President since JFK and why there are more protestant in America than Catholics. But if you can give me more information, I will be very very grateful.
A
anhphan
Guest
And why was Catholicism hated and feared? Could you give me more information?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s a hate group and neither party wants any association with it, at least nowadays. 100 years ago, it had a huge amount of political power so there were likely Washington congressmen in it. Nowadays none of them would touch it.
Over time it has had members, as in ordinary US citizens, from both parties.
Over time it has had members, as in ordinary US citizens, from both parties.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The Founding Fathers were primarily Protestants. Many of them were Masons and free thinkers and wanted to form a government that was largely free of religious influence. At the time, some of individual State (original 13 colonies) governments had some leaning towards one religion or another. Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony, but the founder got a lot of grief for that. Virginia was founded as an Anglican colony. Pennsylvania was a place where everyone was free to practice what they wanted (meaning that lots of Catholics and Quakers went there thinking they could be safe).
There was still a lot of religious intolerance between individual groups of people who had brought their prejudices from Europe. Europe had had hundreds of years of religious wars and persecutions. Early Catholics in USA had their churches destroyed from time to time. The Pope sent over a stone to help build the Washington Monument as a gift, and the builders, who included Masons, got mad and threw it in the river.
The US later acquired territory from France and Spain/ Mexico that had a lot of Catholics already living there because France and Spain were Catholic countries. Within a few decades, a lot of Irish immigrants started coming to USA and they were mostly Catholic and poor, and the established citizens looked down on them. Later you had Catholic immigrants from countries like Italy and Poland go through the same thing. Eventually we got quite a few Catholics in the USA with enough money and education to be a voting bloc and then people had to start getting over their hangups.
There was still a lot of religious intolerance between individual groups of people who had brought their prejudices from Europe. Europe had had hundreds of years of religious wars and persecutions. Early Catholics in USA had their churches destroyed from time to time. The Pope sent over a stone to help build the Washington Monument as a gift, and the builders, who included Masons, got mad and threw it in the river.
The US later acquired territory from France and Spain/ Mexico that had a lot of Catholics already living there because France and Spain were Catholic countries. Within a few decades, a lot of Irish immigrants started coming to USA and they were mostly Catholic and poor, and the established citizens looked down on them. Later you had Catholic immigrants from countries like Italy and Poland go through the same thing. Eventually we got quite a few Catholics in the USA with enough money and education to be a voting bloc and then people had to start getting over their hangups.
U
Usige
Guest
My father is a 32 second degree Mason in the Scottish Rite. I belive he is also a Master Mason in the York Rite. I probably spent as much time in the Masonic Lodge growing up as we did at the Presbyterian Church we belonged to. Between my parents and brothers and sisters I was the only one that did not belong to a masonic organization. I think I am the first generation going back close to 12 generations that didn’t belong.
Like many fraternal organizations the masonic lodge is aging, but they are still very much alive. I think 14 US Presidents were Freemason, with President Ford being the last. President Regan was made an honorary Shriner so you could say he was the last Mason, though not a Freemason.
Last edited:
D
De_Maria
Guest
That depends on how you look at it.
Way before Columbus, the Vikings had come to America and made settlements in Canada. They were Catholic.
Columbus came to America and he was Catholic.
Protestants came with the Pilgrims and more Protestants followed. But by the time they came, Catholics had settled in Canada, in the south and western US and up the Mississippi river from Canada to the Gulf.
T
tomarin
Guest
Vikings were Catholic? If so they had a funny way of showing it.
Last edited:
M
Mintaka
Guest
Leif Ericsson was Catholic. He converted when he was off serving a Catholic king, and then went home as a layman and missionary. His mom converted, along with many other Greenlanders, but his dad (Eric the Red) didn’t. A lot of family drama ensued, after which Leif decided it would be a good idea to go looking for Vinland.
However, most of the Norse people who ended up settling (briefly) in Vinland/Nova Scotia were not Catholic. Notably, Leif Ericsson’s sister Freydis, who went all Lizzie Borden and ax-slaughtered everyone in Vinland who wasn’t one of her followers, was not Catholic.
However, most of the Norse people who ended up settling (briefly) in Vinland/Nova Scotia were not Catholic. Notably, Leif Ericsson’s sister Freydis, who went all Lizzie Borden and ax-slaughtered everyone in Vinland who wasn’t one of her followers, was not Catholic.
M
Mintaka
Guest
Re: why so many Episcopalian presidents
The US has, or had until recently, an interesting social pattern. People who were poor would usually be Baptists, Methodists, etc. People who were middle-class would be Presbyterians or similar. And people who were professionals or rich would be Episcopalians.
It was considered normal for an up and coming young man, or his young family, to change denominations to match their new social circle’s expectations. Part of this was a matter of neighborhood, but part of it was just plain social status and networking.
So everybody prominent in town would go to the Episcopal Church, especially the lawyers, the higher-up politicians, and the local congressman. That was just the way it was.
Catholics stood outside this pattern, only moving from parish to parish. That was another way we were different from other Americans.
(And of course, some Protestants resisted the pattern and stayed with their denomination, which they chose for theology or family tradition.)
I don’t think the pattern is quite as common nowadays, perhaps because most people have to choose to attend a church; it’s not automatic anymore.
The US has, or had until recently, an interesting social pattern. People who were poor would usually be Baptists, Methodists, etc. People who were middle-class would be Presbyterians or similar. And people who were professionals or rich would be Episcopalians.
It was considered normal for an up and coming young man, or his young family, to change denominations to match their new social circle’s expectations. Part of this was a matter of neighborhood, but part of it was just plain social status and networking.
So everybody prominent in town would go to the Episcopal Church, especially the lawyers, the higher-up politicians, and the local congressman. That was just the way it was.
Catholics stood outside this pattern, only moving from parish to parish. That was another way we were different from other Americans.
(And of course, some Protestants resisted the pattern and stayed with their denomination, which they chose for theology or family tradition.)
I don’t think the pattern is quite as common nowadays, perhaps because most people have to choose to attend a church; it’s not automatic anymore.
Last edited:
T
tomarin
Guest
I was thinking as well of all the Viking warriors who plundered medieval Ireland and her monasteries and carried off Irish captives to bring home to Iceland as slaves.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yes, all what you said is generally true. Episcopal, also known as Church of England, was the prevalent religion for the original founding fathers and other wealthy settlers when the country was founded, and it became associated with “old money” and established society.
These days, rich people who are not Catholics or Jewish or Mormon will usually join some church where they can hobnob with other rich people. Those “prosperity gospel” churches, such as the one Trump attended, are popular with wealthy Protestants.
Rich Catholic and Jewish people usually belong to some church of their denomination located in the wealthy area where they live, so there will be other wealthy people attending as a matter of course.
These days, rich people who are not Catholics or Jewish or Mormon will usually join some church where they can hobnob with other rich people. Those “prosperity gospel” churches, such as the one Trump attended, are popular with wealthy Protestants.
Rich Catholic and Jewish people usually belong to some church of their denomination located in the wealthy area where they live, so there will be other wealthy people attending as a matter of course.
Last edited:
D
De_Maria
Guest
I thought the Vikings had made a Catholic influence. But, if not, the French did. They were also here before the Pilgrims.De_Maria:
Vikings were Catholic? If so they had a funny way of showing it.
U
Usige
Guest
Thanks for the info, @Mintaka. That certainly makes sense. I figured Washington and some of the founding fathers would make sense, but some of the concentration of Episcopalians post revolutionary war was a statistical head scratcher.
Last edited:
T
tomarin
Guest
I get the impression Wesleyans and Methodists (they were originally the same movement, or church, before splitting if I remember rightly) were also big in the original thirteen colonies, because whenever I visit my family on the Eastern Shore of Maryland (they are transplants from the Western Shore) I notice every town has an Episcopal church with a red door, as well as a Wesleyan church and maybe a Methodist one, along with a few non-denominational ones with non-descript names. Not sure what the situation farther south was like, though I imagine it would involve more baptists. Also if Michener’s Chesapeake is at all accurate, Quakers were also a force throughout the colonial period on the Eastern seaboard. All this despite Maryland being set up specifically as a colony for Catholics fleeing religious persecution in England. Shortly after it was established many Protestants moved in from Virginia and made the Catholics a minority in the colony.
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Our government has never been very good at equal representation. How many women do we have in Congress, for instance? People of color. But as for the early Presidents who were Episcopalian, they probably were representing the majority of Christian Americans. The Church of England was prominent in early America. The Founding Fathers who designed our system of government were the ones who designed the Episcopalian structure of government.
But these days? I think it’s a non-issue. Most RCs in Congress are on the progressive end of spectrum, and that is more important to people than their actual practice of the faith.
As for an RC President? Lots of factors would have to go into it. With politics the way they are these days, I can’t predict what’s going to happen next week much less next election cycle.
Last edited:
T
thephilosopher6
Guest
Our last vice president Joe Biden was Cathollc, also our current vice president Mike Pence is Catholic as well, though he has oddly mixed Evangelicalism with it.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The Catholics were wealthy and powerful in Maryland, so even when others moved in, the Catholics could continue to practice in relative safety. Mother Seton for example got driven out of Philadelphia and went to Maryland to found her order.
The Quakers got persecuted in a lot of places. Pennsylvania was founded partly to give them someplace to go. One of my houses is in one of the three original Pennsylvania counties and the whole area was originally settled in the 1600s and 1700s by Quaker families (many of their historic houses still stand). They were also in nearby Delaware and NJ.
Most of the early settlers in New England and the Mid-Atlantic were Calvinists of some type. The Wesleyans and Methodists might have come along a bit later. I seem to recall Wesley’s philosophy was partly a rejection of Calvinist predestination and his movement didn’t really get going till the late 1700s, by which time the colonies were already quite settled.
The Quakers got persecuted in a lot of places. Pennsylvania was founded partly to give them someplace to go. One of my houses is in one of the three original Pennsylvania counties and the whole area was originally settled in the 1600s and 1700s by Quaker families (many of their historic houses still stand). They were also in nearby Delaware and NJ.
Most of the early settlers in New England and the Mid-Atlantic were Calvinists of some type. The Wesleyans and Methodists might have come along a bit later. I seem to recall Wesley’s philosophy was partly a rejection of Calvinist predestination and his movement didn’t really get going till the late 1700s, by which time the colonies were already quite settled.
Last edited:
- Status