Why was Zechariah punished but not Mary?

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Philthy

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In Lukes Gospel, when Gabriel announced to Zechariah that he and Elizabeth would have a son, Zechariah asked,“How shall I come to know this? For I am…old…and (Elizabeth) is advanced in years.” Gabriel then goes on to say that Zechariah would become “unable to speak…” because he doubted. Fair enough.
In like fashion, Gabriel announced to Mary that she would bear a son. And Mary, similarly, responds with, “How can this be since I have no relations with a man?” Mary, however, is not punished in the same way Zechariah was.
What’s up with that? Any thoughts?

Phil
 
Zechariah doubted, even though there were numerous occasions in the Old Testament where God intervened in the lives of an elderly couple, i.e. Abraham and Sarah, and produced a child. Mary however, had never had “relations”, let alone a husband, yet, just a betrothed.

Mary’s question was more a question of “how is this going to come about”, whereas Zechariah’s question was more like, “Yeah…Right…!” You can get a little more insight when Mary answers with a joyous response, “Let it be to me according to His Will”.

Notworthy
 
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NotWorthy:
Zechariah doubted, even though there were numerous occasions in the Old Testament where God intervened in the lives of an elderly couple, i.e. Abraham and Sarah, and produced a child. Mary however, had never had “relations”, let alone a husband, yet, just a betrothed.
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This is good food for thought
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NotWorthy:
Mary’s question was more a question of “how is this going to come about”, whereas Zechariah’s question was more like, “Yeah…Right…!”
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How do you get that? What translation reflects this interpretation?
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NotWorthy:
You can get a little more insight when Mary answers with a joyous response, “Let it be to me according to His Will”.
Notworthy
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True, but Zechariah never got a chance to say anything - he was forcibly silenced! And as soon as he did get the chance, of course, he issued praise to God, similar to Mary.
Your first thought - precedent from the OT- seems like the strongest. Your interpretive approach also seems excellent and I am anxious to see how it is justified. I appreciate any help you can offer.

Thanks,

Phil
 
Just a thought.
Maybe God read their thoughts and knew in Mary’s heart she truly believed all things were possible with God but was sincerly surprised. Where as with Zachariah his heart may have been a little harder and needed to be truly convinced.
Of course this is just my humble opinion. :rolleyes:
 
How do you get that? What translation reflects this interpretation?
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Luke 1:21 might help a bit. Since the people were wondering what took so long you could assume that the conversation went on longer than what was recorded. Or, of course, you could assume that he just didn’t come out for a long time after seeing Gabriel.

Luke 1:20 might be more helpful. Gabriel says to Zechariah “because you have not believed my words”. Contrast this with Luke 1:45 when Elizabeth filled with The Holy Spirit said to Mary “blessed are you who believed”. So Mary believed while Zechariah did not.
 
I think NotWorthy’s response was not only amusing but hit the nail right on the head as I think was further developed by Madia’s post. The scripture is pretty clear that there was a real difference in the responses of Mary and Zechariah’s as brought out by Gabriel’s announcement about Zechariah’s silence.

This is just me, however, but given their age, I think, as NotWorthy pointed out, Zechariah’s response was one more of skepticism, Mary’s, sincere wonder - although I am sure if I was in Zechariah’s shoes my response would have been the same.
Also, and I wish this was my original idea, Zechariah’s enforced silence was not so much a punishment but it was God, in His wisdom, forcing Zechariah to stop, look and listen to what was happening, Mary clearly did not need this.
 
No one wants to “read into” the verse concerning Mary’s unique status as influencing interpretation of the events, hmmm? 😉

thanks for all the responses so far…

Phil
 
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Philthy:
No one wants to “read into” the verse concerning Mary’s unique status as influencing interpretation of the events, hmmm?
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There’s no need to “read into” anything. Luke’s Gospel itself answers your question.

18Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.” 19The angel answered, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time.”

Zechariah was punished for not believing.

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God.” 38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.

Mary, in contrast, believed and obeyed.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
The way I see it, it’s all about attitude. Mary’s questioning was like how? Zecheriah’s more like yeah right.
 
FYI, John Paul II has pointed out that Mary’s language (“let it be to me”) indicates not a passive acceptance but an active embracing of God’s will in her life. As such, Mary’s “yes” serves as a model of faith for all believers.

Notworthy
 
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NotWorthy:
FYI, John Paul II has pointed out that Mary’s language ("let it be to me") indicates not a passive acceptance but an active embracing of God’s will in her life. As such, Mary’s “yes” serves as a model of faith for all believers.

Notworthy
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Not only a model, but with her yes we were all able to attain salvation thru her Son. Mary was the first one to answer God’s call perfectly her whole life.
 
Edward Sri just wrote a wonderful book, Dawn of the Messiah, which covers Gabriel’s announcement to Zechariah and Elizabeth all the way through to Jesus in the Temple as a child.

Excellent Read.

Notworthy
 
Another way to view Zechariah’s question is as a “prove it”. He didn’t say “how will it be done”, but rather “how do I know this will happen?” He’s asking Gabriel, an angel from God, for some kind of proof that his message is real and the promise is true. He has little faith in the promises of God, seeing the promise itself as not being proof enough, despite the history of the Covenant.

Mary, on the other hand, shows no doubt that it will happen, but rather is perplexed at the how. That is a perfectly natural, and even childlike, response to hearing something incredible. By asking “how will it be” rather than “how can I be sure it will be”, she’s asking a fundamentally different question, one of wonder and awe compared to Zechariah’s obvious cynicism.

There is nothing wrong with asking God “how”. In fact, God seems to encourage that inquisitive nature in His people, almost always rewarding them with an answer and deeper insight. The Church, likewise, encourage such persuits in theology and science. Questions of “prove it”, however, are generally met with stiff rebuke, as the appropriate response to God is awe and gratitude, not cynical skepticism. God has nothing to prove to us, but He has everything to give to us.

Peace and God bless!
 
OK, I hope you have time for another quick Bible Study:
Code: 
**Luke 1:18-23 *- Then Zechariah said to the angel, "How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years."******  And the angel said to him in reply, "I am Gabriel, who stand before God. I was sent to speak to you and to announce to you this good news.  But now you will be speechless and unable to talk until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled at their proper time."  *********
After hearing all this, Zechariah doubts whether his elderly wife really will be able to bear a child. He asks the angel: “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.” The angel then gives a mystifying response: “I am Gabriel…” How does this response answer Zechariah’s question? He didn’t ask for the angel’s name, he asked for assurances!

But the angel was answering Zechariah’s question. He gave Zechariah the one bit of information that might help him tie all the pieces together. In Daniel, chapter 9, the prophet was praying for God to show mercy on his people and bring an end to the Jewish suffering under foreign oppressors. The angel, Gabriel, appeared at the hour of the evening sacrifice - the time when the incense would have been offered in the temple. In this vision, Gabriel delivered a massage of good news and bad news to Daniel. On one hand, the people would continue to suffer under pagan nations for a long time to come. On the other hand, at the end of this period of suffering, God would send an anointed prince (The Messiah) to bring an end to sin and atone for iniquity. This anointed one would usher in everlasting righteousness and bring all of Israel’s prophecies to fulfillment (see Daniel 9:24-27).

Given this background, we can see Gabriel certainly is no ordinary angel. He is the one who announced the end of Israel’s oppression and the beginning of the messianic era to the prophet Daniel. Now this same angel returns for the first time in hundreds of years and appears to Zechariah. Revealing his name - Gabriel - recalls the prophecies of Daniel 9. The parallels between what happened to Daniel and what just happened to Zechariah highlight this connection even more. Like Daniel, Zechariah prays on behalf of Israel as he offers the incense in the temple. Like Daniel, Zechariah makes this prayer at the hour of the temple sacrifice. And in the middle of Zechariah’s liturgical service, the same angel - Gabriel - appears. Luke is clearly inviting his readers to hear the harmony in salvation history and view Zechariah’s encounter with the angel in correspondence with Daniel’s.

Notworthy
 
Gabriel also means “strength of God” in Hebrew, so when Zechariah asks, Gabriel says “I am the Strength of God”. All of the named Angels have names like this, in fact.

Peace and God bless!
 
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mlchance:
There’s no need to “read into” anything. Luke’s Gospel itself answers your question.

18Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.” 19The angel answered, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time.”

Zechariah was punished for not believing.

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God.” 38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.

Mary, in contrast, believed and obeyed.

– Mark L. Chance.
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My only question is: on what basis do you conclude that Mary “believed” at first in a manner different than Zechariah?
Is there something about the question,“how can this be?” which indicates belief? I don’t disagree with your take on obedience but Zechariah was silenced - we have no idea what he would have said, right?

Phil
 
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Philthy:
Is there something about the question,“how can this be?” which indicates belief? I don’t disagree with your take on obedience but Zechariah was silenced - we have no idea what he would have said, right?

Phil
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You’re may be right, we have no idea what he would have said. But we are not Gabriel. Gabriel would have known full what what Zechariah was thinking, now, wouldn’t he?

Notworthy
 
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NotWorthy:
FYI, John Paul II has pointed out that Mary’s language ("let it be to me") indicates not a passive acceptance but an active embracing of God’s will in her life. As such, Mary’s “yes” serves as a model of faith for all believers.

Notworthy
Click to expand...
This is more like it! Where did it come from?

Phil
 
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Ghosty:
Another way to view Zechariah’s question is as a “prove it”. He didn’t say “how will it be done”, but rather “how do I know this will happen?” He’s asking Gabriel, an angel from God, for some kind of proof that his message is real and the promise is true. He has little faith in the promises of God, seeing the promise itself as not being proof enough, despite the history of the Covenant.

Mary, on the other hand, shows no doubt that it will happen, but rather is perplexed at the how. That is a perfectly natural, and even childlike, response to hearing something incredible. By asking “how will it be” rather than “how can I be sure it will be”, she’s asking a fundamentally different question, one of wonder and awe compared to Zechariah’s obvious cynicism.

There is nothing wrong with asking God “how”. In fact, God seems to encourage that inquisitive nature in His people, almost always rewarding them with an answer and deeper insight. The Church, likewise, encourage such persuits in theology and science. Questions of “prove it”, however, are generally met with stiff rebuke, as the appropriate response to God is awe and gratitude, not cynical skepticism. God has nothing to prove to us, but He has everything to give to us.

Peace and God bless!
Click to expand...
Excellent!

thanks,

Phil
 
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NotWorthy:
OK, I hope you have time for another quick Bible Study:

Luke 1:18-23 - Then Zechariah said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.”*** And the angel said to him in reply, “I am Gabriel, who stand before God. I was sent to speak to you and to announce to you this good news. But now you will be speechless and unable to talk until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled at their proper time.” ***

After hearing all this, Zechariah doubts whether his elderly wife really will be able to bear a child. He asks the angel: “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.” The angel then gives a mystifying response: “I am Gabriel…” How does this response answer Zechariah’s question? He didn’t ask for the angel’s name, he asked for assurances!

But the angel was answering Zechariah’s question. He gave Zechariah the one bit of information that might help him tie all the pieces together. In Daniel, chapter 9, the prophet was praying for God to show mercy on his people and bring an end to the Jewish suffering under foreign oppressors. The angel, Gabriel, appeared at the hour of the evening sacrifice - the time when the incense would have been offered in the temple. In this vision, Gabriel delivered a massage of good news and bad news to Daniel. On one hand, the people would continue to suffer under pagan nations for a long time to come. On the other hand, at the end of this period of suffering, God would send an anointed prince (The Messiah) to bring an end to sin and atone for iniquity. This anointed one would usher in everlasting righteousness and bring all of Israel’s prophecies to fulfillment (see Daniel 9:24-27).

Given this background, we can see Gabriel certainly is no ordinary angel. He is the one who announced the end of Israel’s oppression and the beginning of the messianic era to the prophet Daniel. Now this same angel returns for the first time in hundreds of years and appears to Zechariah. Revealing his name - Gabriel - recalls the prophecies of Daniel 9. The parallels between what happened to Daniel and what just happened to Zechariah highlight this connection even more. Like Daniel, Zechariah prays on behalf of Israel as he offers the incense in the temple. Like Daniel, Zechariah makes this prayer at the hour of the temple sacrifice. And in the middle of Zechariah’s liturgical service, the same angel - Gabriel - appears. Luke is clearly inviting his readers to hear the harmony in salvation history and view Zechariah’s encounter with the angel in correspondence with Daniel’s.

Notworthy
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Wow! 👍
 
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