Why we’re forgetting the Holocaust

[gracepoole]

No, sorry, I wasn’t referring to you.

 

[2towers]

You saying that the desperation and malaise of the post-Treaty of Versailles German nation wouldn’t have materialized into violence against a scapegoat group if they were told about the Armenian genocide in a sympathetic light

Hitler himself declared the treaty terms to be at an end. No one raised a finger in response. He and the Germans did not have to go on to murder millions. Versailles is hardly a defense.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Then maybe it would be better for our country and our world if we all strove to be a little above average.

 

[MonteRCMS]

I would have thought that each death camp would have a huge marble memorial, bell tower, and church, similar to what we have at veterans’ cemeteries.

 

[Vonsalza]

Sorry, missed this.

You really need to wipe the word “axiomatic” out of your vocabulary. You wield it as a means of supporting relativism.

It’s “self-evident truth”. And yeah, that’s pretty subjectivist.

This is how Oxford gives it. But if you wish to insist that Oxford is wrong too, by all means. Have at it.

Because you cling to the notion that all opinions are simply axiomatic, they’re all of relative value.

If you keep asking “why” to get to the roots of a claim, you have two possible terminals - circular reasoning loop or self-evident axiom. And all axiom is accept/reject. The penalty for rejection might be extreme ostracization by a religious or academic community that accepts it as foundational to their theoretical systems. But nonetheless, you’re free to accept or not.

By all means, ask your philo prof. husband if I’m lying to you.

Are you normally against the existence of all cemeteries?

Mixed bag.

If you couldn’t build something because there’s a possible body in the ground near it then you’ve eliminated the ability to perform new construction in the majority of Europe, India, Britain and China.

You have not addressed, for example, the claim that as a species we see value in preserving other historical locations.

I don’t have to. We’re obviously very arbitrary and capricious as a species about which building is preserved and which isn’t.

You have not addressed, for example, the claim that humans have a history of trying to ignore the traces of their immoral actions.

Then every cookie jar a child ever stole from should be preserved as well? Come now…

There isn’t just a nationwide benefit to Auschwitz being maintained. There’s a global benefit.

Absolutely. Superficial virtue signaling that yields immediately to the dissatisfaction of absolutely any of our more basic needs like food, shelter, security.

As for Rwanda, why has Holocaust education been implemented there in the wake of the genocide?

Because your reaction is obviously not unique to your culture.

And looking at the genocides that have occurred since Rwanda, their attempts at memorialization seem to be as ineffective as the last at preventing similar violence.

 

[redbetta]

A lot of the emphasis that gets placed on the Holocaust is the results of Jews being effective advocates for themselves. Some groups just don’t have the resources, political clout, numbers, organizing ability, etc. to bring attention to these things.

We as a society could do better to recognize the atrocities committed against other ethnicities. And members of such groups should use there voice.

 

[Talitha712]

Then maybe it would be better for our country and our world if we all strove to be a little above average.

^^ This ^^

 

[goout]

A lot of the emphasis that gets placed on the Holocaust is the results of Jews being effective advocates for themselves. Some groups just don’t have the resources, political clout, numbers, organizing ability, etc. to bring attention to these things.

We as a society could do better to recognize the atrocities committed against other ethnicities. And members of such groups should use there voice.

We could do better by not repeating those atrocities. We could recognize the humanity of those Jews by honoring those human beings in our midst who are murdered. (I think it’s necessary to preserve Holocaust sites also)
The same sick thinking that affected the Nazis is alive and well in 2018 and murdering human beings on an unprecedented industrial scale.

 

[redbetta]

I never denied that.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Buchenwald was also a camp in which grisly Nazi “experiments” were conducted. It was run by the infamous Ilse Koch (known as the “red witch of Buchenwald”), who was a particularly sadistic person.

 

[deMontfort]

No doubt. Check out the “experiments” at Dachau: Nauseating.

 

[Arkansan]

Arkansan:

It’s really interesting how the Holocaust has taken on a quasi-religious status (including in countries that were part of the Allies).

Could you please explain how the Holocaust remembrances and memorials to the murdered have taken on quasi-religious status?

The fact that people think they “need to be remembered” as a moral lesson to humanity, unlike any other event in secular history (but like the events of religious history, e.g. original sin, the Crucifixion).

Then maybe it would be better for our country and our world if we all strove to be a little above average.

It is impossible, by definition, for the majority of people to be above average.

A lot of the emphasis that gets placed on the Holocaust is the results of Jews being effective advocates for themselves. Some groups just don’t have the resources, political clout, numbers, organizing ability, etc. to bring attention to these things.

Bingo

We as a society could do better to recognize the atrocities committed against other ethnicities. And members of such groups should use there voice.

Why should the average person care about every random atrocity that’s ever happened to anyone?

 

[redbetta]

I’m not saying that we should remember every single one. But we can learn from these things. There is usually some group that serves as the canary in the coal mine.

 

[Arkansan]

What can we learn from them that we couldn’t otherwise?

 

[redbetta]

How these things happen in the first place.

 

[Arkansan]

There are all sorts of ways that society can go wrong (and is going wrong). Why should we waste emphasis on a way of going wrong that is (compared to others) very unlikely?

 

[redbetta]

Because when it does happen, the death toll is pretty high. I mean, why do we talk about mass shootings when they are very unlikely?

 

[deMontfort]

Given the number of incidents of mass murder in the supposedly “civilized” 20th Century, I wouldn’t call the possibility of mass-murder “unlikely”.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Why should the average person care about ANYTHING except themselves? Who is this average person you are talking about? I don’t think they are someone I would care to know.

 

[Arkansan]

I mean, why do we talk about mass shootings when they are very unlikely?

Because the media is unethical and will do anything for ratings.

Mass shooting are among the clearest examples of the copycat phenomenon. We would all be better off in committing mass murder didn’t make you famous.

Given the number of incidents of mass murder in the supposedly “civilized” 20th Century, I wouldn’t call the possibility of mass-murder “unlikely”.

Mass murder is happening in our own society. What’s very unlikely is that Nazis will take over and start killing the Jews again.

Why should the average person care about ANYTHING except themselves? Who is this average person you are talking about? I don’t think they are someone I would care to know.

The average person is one who knows what the average person in their society is expected to know (but not e.g. the details of random historical trivia).

Currently, the average person is familiar with the Holocaust. The question is, why should that atrocity enjoy a privileged place in our national consciousness.