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Leela
Guest
I could see how such an experience could be viewed as strong evidence for the existence of God. Thanks for sharing. Have you tried asking other questions since then?
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geometer
Guest
Well, right at that time, when I was so young, I wasn’t really very comfortable with getting answers to my questions directly. It seemed a little disappointing to simply be told. But I knew that there must be something that I should find out about. I thought for a while and told God that I would like him to help me discover the way in which his law, which I believed to be the ten commandments, were written in nature. I did not want him to just tell me, I wanted him to guide me to make the discovery myself, basically so I would have something to do in my life.
It was many years latter that I found something interesting…
See my webpage:
www.theosopher.com
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twb1621
Guest
you know Leela, often what we consider acceptable proof or reasonable support to know God exists is different for each of us. I starting questioning things in my own life when I realized there were often unexplainable events that took place at different times of my life that changed the direction I was taking. Those things more than once stopped me from being seriously harmed or killed or from responding wrongfully to someone else in some way. When on many occasions your life should be over or the mistakes you are about to make could be serious and irreversible in harming others, but totally unexplained events occur just before the choice is made and all is unexplainably worked out, you got to wonder about things.
My approach was to research God and Christianity from present day to its origin, then from its origin through to today and how so many variations came to be. Once I was convinced of the original Christian faith, I researched information on the archeological discoveries, artifacts, the validity of the scholars who made determinations and so on. If you research the Historic artifacts and findings of the Roman society you can also verify much through those resources. Christians were often referred to as “Christ-nics” by the Roman rulers. How ther could be no question as to Christ coming from the people chosen by God, the Israelites and the 8000 years before Christ. To make a long story short, if you review all of the prophecies Jesus himself made and refer them throughout history to today, you would be hard pressed to explain His knowing so much of the future if He were not of supernatural origin (God). And if you want to verify His being the Messiah, you can research the Old Testament prophesies which for thousands of years before Christ spoke of His coming and even more so of what would take place to Him in His life on earth. This is putting it simply to keep it short.
Finally, if you think God doesn’t look after those who accept and trust in Him or that He doesn’t answer them, you’re very wrong. The more of a relationship you wish to develop with God, the deeper it will grow. But as long as a person turns his or her back to God, He allows them that choice. I don’t think I can say anymore than that without sounding off the wall so I will stop there for now.
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morgantj
Guest
People are afraid of the unknown. Sticking an all purpose fix-it in those gaps comforts them. It is the god of the gaps. Don’t know something, don’t understand something, just spurt out, “god did it.” Also, death being a big unknown for people, this frightens them, combine this with there instinct for survival and they will patch up this hole with God created me with soul that will live beyond death. Once again, comforting their fear of the unknown. A primitive belief that requires blind faith.
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fhansen
Guest
**And that theory sounds plausible enough-and is the one I naturally leaned towards when younger- until one finds out otherwise.
**
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morgantj
Guest
I leaned towards “otherwise” when younger because I never put much thought into it. I just took my elders word for it. But having matured, having gained a passion for the pursuit of truth, it leaned me to this plausible explanation.
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fhansen
Guest
Well, maybe it’s time to look past your elders leanings and pursue a little deeper. For myself, I couldn’t learn anything of Christian faith until I first divested myself of any and all leanings one way or the other.
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Bruno_Schulz
Guest
**It’s most interesting, why people who refuse believe, keep bothering and writing in Christian forums! 
Voluntarily wasting their time? Tying to convince us of the “nothing behind”.
Do they want to discover if there is “anything behind it” after all, or do they want to convince believers; “there’s nothing behind all that”. :tsktsk:
Why do great spirits like Nietzsche attack Christianity so fiercely. Do they really think it doesn’t exist what they don’t know?
In other words:
I’m acquainted with everything I know. I don’t know anything I’m not acquainted with. So, there is nothing I don’t know.
shaw:
**
Voluntarily wasting their time? Tying to convince us of the “nothing behind”.
Do they want to discover if there is “anything behind it” after all, or do they want to convince believers; “there’s nothing behind all that”. :tsktsk:
Why do great spirits like Nietzsche attack Christianity so fiercely. Do they really think it doesn’t exist what they don’t know?
In other words:
I’m acquainted with everything I know. I don’t know anything I’m not acquainted with. So, there is nothing I don’t know.
shaw:**
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twb1621
Guest
It is far from blind faith to research history and learn the truth, but it is willful ignorance to hid from it. If a person accepts disbelief in something only because they can not see or touch and refuses to seek the truth, they accept ignorance over knowledge. They receive what they earn.
You speak of human nature, How do you explain why the apostles after separating and hiding in fear of their lives from the authorities when Jesus was crucified, suddenly, after claiming they witnessed Him resurrected from the dead and receiving His instruction to go and teach all nations, leave the safety of their hiding places and go publically preaching His word knowing full well the horrid torture suffering and ultimate death they would face (and one by one did face) by doing so? Only a supernaturally reinforced faith, belief, in what Jesus had promised them would have given them that unnatural change of heart such as they experienced. As you said, human nature is to survive and they knew their true survival was in eternal life as promised them. They witnessed it. There is more to Christianity than the limited words in the Bible.
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Leela
Guest
One thing I know is that faith is not a virtue. We generally agree that it is good to believe what we have good reason to believe, but somehow, the majority of the population has become convinced that we need to make a special exception for religion. I can see no reason why it is good to create a special category of beliefs that are not subject to evidence and arguments as all our other beliefs are, and I can see a lot of reasons why it is bad to do so (beginning with the Twin Towers). I’m here to call into question the so-called virtue of faith because I think we would all be better off if we held all of our beliefs as subject to revision as new evidence and arguments become available.**It’s most interesting, why people who refuse believe, keep bothering and writing in Christian forums!
Voluntarily wasting their time? Tying to convince us of the “nothing behind”.
Do they want to discover if there is “anything behind it” after all, or do they want to convince believers; “there’s nothing behind all that”. :tsktsk:
Why do great spirits like Nietzsche attack Christianity so fiercely. Do they really think it doesn’t exist what they don’t know?
In other words:
I’m acquainted with everything I know. I don’t know anything I’m not acquainted with. So, there is nothing I don’t know.
**
Best,
Leela
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Leela
Guest
I went to the website but couldn’t follow it. can you summarize?
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twb1621
Guest
Did you really consider the fact that the majority of humanity believe because for 2000 years of archeological and historic artifact recovery along with ancient documentation it has been proven to a point where no one has ever been able to discredit it? That should tell you something but I have noticed you do not seem to comment on the suggestions mentioned to you, one way or another. Perhaps you choose not to believe and do not want to disrupt your way of living should you find you are wrong? Is that it?
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twb1621
Guest
You might want to look at the origin and the founder of the belief system promoted in that web site.
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Bruno_Schulz
Guest
**
Christianity though, is a truth, atheists never will understand until they will see – which they will.
Why then do atheists not simply wait and see, instead of arguing, instead of an attitude like: “…let those Christians believe what they might, it doesn’t harm them”.
Christians though think: “…I can’t afford to be guilty, when this atheist walks right into his doom, because I didn’t tell him.
Now; which of the two is love?!
Christians can in love try to, but not really present atheists God’s truth.
The side “geometer” presents in www.theosopher.com, is totally queer too, might be even funny, but hasn’t got anything to do with faith in God; not the slightest with Catholicism! Simply funky stuff of a sect, founded in the 1800’s by the occultist Helena Petrovna Blavatsky who incorporates geometry into faith. She was rightly called a fraud by many, for the obscure things she claimed.
Theosophy is far off Christianity and Jesus Christ!
This sects efforts of contacting spirits as a medium and stuff, is definitely against Christian Faith. Really nothing to think twice about. A sect of nonchristians – here displaced in any case.**
one might find more about this queer theme, here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Steel_Olcott
This is very true to all former philosophies (mathematics, physics, chemistry, geographic and so on) before they became classical studies.
Christianity though, is a truth, atheists never will understand until they will see – which they will.
Why then do atheists not simply wait and see, instead of arguing, instead of an attitude like: “…let those Christians believe what they might, it doesn’t harm them”.
Christians though think: “…I can’t afford to be guilty, when this atheist walks right into his doom, because I didn’t tell him.
Now; which of the two is love?!
Christians can in love try to, but not really present atheists God’s truth.
The side “geometer” presents in www.theosopher.com, is totally queer too, might be even funny, but hasn’t got anything to do with faith in God; not the slightest with Catholicism! Simply funky stuff of a sect, founded in the 1800’s by the occultist Helena Petrovna Blavatsky who incorporates geometry into faith. She was rightly called a fraud by many, for the obscure things she claimed.
Theosophy is far off Christianity and Jesus Christ!
This sects efforts of contacting spirits as a medium and stuff, is definitely against Christian Faith. Really nothing to think twice about. A sect of nonchristians – here displaced in any case.**
one might find more about this queer theme, here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Steel_Olcott
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Sair
Guest
This sounds much like the argument that goes something like, “Well, if so many people believe it, it couldn’t possibly be wrong, could it?” But humans are credible creatures, disposed to believe whatever their social group believes - especially when deviating from that belief carries a real threat of persecution and possibly even death.
Another thing to consider is that it wasn’t until at least the 18th century that people really started making scientific discoveries that called Christian belief into question. It’s really interesting to note that in the 19th century, when medical researchers had been dissecting bodies for around 350 years already, people still reacted with horror when they heard of bodies being cut up after death - because how could a body be resurrected when it was all in pieces? The human mind is apt to make connections, and will fabricate them where it finds none that are observably true. The more we find out about the natural world and about the universe, the fewer the gaps our minds are compelled to fill with a supernatural power.
I have to admit that, as a former Catholic, the thing that struck me most forcibly was how many controls exist in the Catholic faith against questioning. Faith is constructed as a virtue - recall Christ’s words to St Thomas: “You believe because you have seen. How much more blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe?” Questioning church teaching is made out to be an act of arrogance or selfishness. My favourite is the idea of the “false conscience” - if your conscience tells you that going against church teaching is acceptable, preferable or in any way ‘right’, then obviously your conscience is misinformed and in need of instruction.
What’s an honest, rational mind to do?
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Scar
Guest
…most of us probably believe in God (assuming the catholic God) because thats the way we were raised. Had we been born in Asia, I feel sure we would be debating Buddah, Confusis, or some other Asian deity.
…I know one thing for sure. God made us all, and the best chance of evangelizing is to live the tenants of our God. Occasionally say something, but lets give a little more example and less debate. Love your neighbor, but not to their aggravation.
Peace
…I know one thing for sure. God made us all, and the best chance of evangelizing is to live the tenants of our God. Occasionally say something, but lets give a little more example and less debate. Love your neighbor, but not to their aggravation.
Peace
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fhansen
Guest
The Church simply claims to know something very much worth knowing, i.e. to be right about certain matters. After all, that is part of her stated mission. But she recognizes the “primacy of conscience”, that a person must have the right and freedom to follow their own consciences, even if those consciences are misinformed, or in other words, wrong.
1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
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Leela
Guest
You’ve suggested that I look into the origins of Christianity. I have. I was raised by Christian parents. What I was wondering about your posts is whether you looked into any other religions and how you decided that Catholicism is true and the others are false.
Best,
Leela
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Leela
Guest
You take it for granted that if Theosophy is different from Christianity then it is untrue. Do have any evidence or arguments that make the truth of Theosophy doubtful? I don’t even know what it is, so I couldn’t tell you if I think it has any merit.
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Bruno_Schulz
Guest
**
Whoever thinks scientific discoveries would call Christian belief into question, can’t be of this planet. Pope John Paul II. was in 1985 asked in CERN about such, and he answered: “God has written two books; that of Holy Scripture and that of nature. Therefore any contrariness is impossible. If there ever would seem to be a collision, than at most; Church would have to alter it’s interpretation of nature.”
Whoever’s mind abandons believe in God for reasons of finding out more out about nature and universe, never had believe in God. The falsest at all, is to believe, the Cath. Church would forbid faith-questioning. On the contrary, Church encourages to ask and continuously answers.
Of course Jesus said to Thomas: “You believe because you have seen. How much more blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe?” – for all coming after Christ’s ascension, couldn’t see Jesus directly as Thomas did.
When the Church teaches, she preserves and perpetuates Jesus word, as demanded by Jesus Christ. Do you know better than Jesus Christ? In that case you have done right to leave the Church.
Are you happy now without God?
**
A very funny idea indeed, for don’t you know that Christians live in a secular world? Surrounded by people who think believe and faith in God is a silly hobby?! Their social group is neither Christian nor Catholic. So what are you talking about?
Whoever thinks scientific discoveries would call Christian belief into question, can’t be of this planet. Pope John Paul II. was in 1985 asked in CERN about such, and he answered: “God has written two books; that of Holy Scripture and that of nature. Therefore any contrariness is impossible. If there ever would seem to be a collision, than at most; Church would have to alter it’s interpretation of nature.”
Whoever’s mind abandons believe in God for reasons of finding out more out about nature and universe, never had believe in God. The falsest at all, is to believe, the Cath. Church would forbid faith-questioning. On the contrary, Church encourages to ask and continuously answers.
Of course Jesus said to Thomas: “You believe because you have seen. How much more blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe?” – for all coming after Christ’s ascension, couldn’t see Jesus directly as Thomas did.
When the Church teaches, she preserves and perpetuates Jesus word, as demanded by Jesus Christ. Do you know better than Jesus Christ? In that case you have done right to leave the Church.
Are you happy now without God?
**
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