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East_and_West
Guest
Let’s add Thomas Aquinas’ areguement in the Summa Contra Gentiles. Its a bout thirty paragraphs long. Hope everyone can keep up with it.
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Bruno_Schulz
Guest
** [Edited] now asked about 900 times in around 900 CAF-posts same atheist questions, and [edited] will keep for another 900 posts asking such, proving [edited] disbelieve as “truth”.
Other atheists in CAF and worldwide, do alike. Some even until they die and then see the truth.
Easter every year anew, is the great invitation to all disbelievers, atheists and faithless, for conversion to God. God approaches us on Easter in a very close, loving relationship. This can be dangerous to an atheist, who struggles to keep his atheist believe. The Britisch author Clive Staples Lewis felt this thread as a “state of siege” by God. He wrote (in my poor English translated with my dict. – our Bishop preached it this morning): “the lost son approached his fathers house at least on his own feet. But who could adore in an appropriate way this overwhelming love that opens itself to every renegade who struggles in a strong-willed slash around oneself fight, always looking for means of escape”.
Chesterton wrote: “Indicator for belief and faith in God is not tradition, but conversion. Conversion is the miracle that leads people to find the truth in spite of tradition”.
Conversion alone, doesn’t make us Christians. Not before we actually confess ourselves to Jesus Christ, Son of God. Not before we really are able to say: I believe in you Jesus Christ” we will understand the Secret of Easter, with is not revealed to everyone, but will forever remain accepted or refused matter between God and every single person. When our loving God is with us, there’s no reason to have fear, and it’s only then, that we are free, for Christians do not loose their freedom to close minded earthly things: 1Cor 6,12 1Cor 9,22 2Cor 3,12 Gal 3,23 2Petr 2,19 and as St Peter put it: For a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him.
HAPPY EASTER !
**
Other atheists in CAF and worldwide, do alike. Some even until they die and then see the truth.
Easter every year anew, is the great invitation to all disbelievers, atheists and faithless, for conversion to God. God approaches us on Easter in a very close, loving relationship. This can be dangerous to an atheist, who struggles to keep his atheist believe. The Britisch author Clive Staples Lewis felt this thread as a “state of siege” by God. He wrote (in my poor English translated with my dict. – our Bishop preached it this morning): “the lost son approached his fathers house at least on his own feet. But who could adore in an appropriate way this overwhelming love that opens itself to every renegade who struggles in a strong-willed slash around oneself fight, always looking for means of escape”.
Chesterton wrote: “Indicator for belief and faith in God is not tradition, but conversion. Conversion is the miracle that leads people to find the truth in spite of tradition”.
Conversion alone, doesn’t make us Christians. Not before we actually confess ourselves to Jesus Christ, Son of God. Not before we really are able to say: I believe in you Jesus Christ” we will understand the Secret of Easter, with is not revealed to everyone, but will forever remain accepted or refused matter between God and every single person. When our loving God is with us, there’s no reason to have fear, and it’s only then, that we are free, for Christians do not loose their freedom to close minded earthly things: 1Cor 6,12 1Cor 9,22 2Cor 3,12 Gal 3,23 2Petr 2,19 and as St Peter put it: For a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him.
HAPPY EASTER !
**
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twb1621
Guest
Yes, you missed responding to post #71 which was in answer to a question you had concerning miracles and Biblical gifts of the Holy Spirit. You want physical proof God exists? You might not like the way He proves Himself to you… but you have no proof He doesn’t yet you avoid the truths and proofs that respond to your questions. We can only help you to where the information is but we cannot make you research it or learn from it. That is your responsibility and it wont go away because you choose not to learn about it. You are asking the questions you ask in regard to God only because you never bothered to seriously find out the Truth otherwise, you’d know better. Why do you think atheism is such a small group compared to Christianity when it takes much more effort to learn and live by compared to disbelief?
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Leela
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tomarin
Guest
And these are all things that apply as much to Islam as they do to Christianity.
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twb1621
Guest
Oh, but it is all much better than just stomping your feet saying “…cause I don wanna cause I said so”. But actually, although your posts do not express the responses of a mature person, I think you are mature enough to learn if you reawly wanna… you just don’t wanna… but you have the freedom of will to choose that.
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twb1621
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Still didn’t respond to post # 71… wonder why?
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twb1621
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Perhaps you really don’t want there to be a God because then you would have to make choices in giving up some of those things you entertain yourself in or face the consequences. It is much easier to just say “I don’t believe…” at least until that time comes.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
I believe in God because otherwise there is no way to make sense of anything. The French atheist philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre got it right. If there is no God, existence is absurd. But since everything in my life is reaching out for meaning, I refuse to believe that the entire universe is meaningless. That is an act of will, not intellect. The atheist also commits an act of will, deciding deliberately (not out of intellectual conviction, because there is no way to prove atheism) that the entire universe is meaningless. It just is. 
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Bruno_Schulz
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**
Oh yes! This is ever so true!
It is indeed much easier not to believe than to believe.
Atheists however can’t and won’t comprehend, as they refuse to understand; why then Christians do believe, when disbelieve is so much easier.
They think, the reason is: Fear of the consequences.
Wrong!
It’s because this way, we never are alone and we actually very strongly feel and live that.
On the contrary; Atheists don’t actually know what they plead for. Their “THERE IS NO GOD” they can’t prove. Of course we can’t prove the opposite, but we KNOW and feel it and get a lot of prove over our life.
But they - I don’t know - hope? wish? or whatever, that there is no God. They have to do a lot, to cover their latent and hidden (hidden to the inside as outside) hidden fear of "WHAT, IF THERE IS GOD AFTER ALL and it’s all true??? "
In fact, Christians couldn’t stand this unsure situation. Those who live in God don’t just hope there is God, but they know!**
time comes.
Oh yes! This is ever so true!
It is indeed much easier not to believe than to believe.
Atheists however can’t and won’t comprehend, as they refuse to understand; why then Christians do believe, when disbelieve is so much easier.
They think, the reason is: Fear of the consequences.
Wrong!
It’s because this way, we never are alone and we actually very strongly feel and live that.
On the contrary; Atheists don’t actually know what they plead for. Their “THERE IS NO GOD” they can’t prove. Of course we can’t prove the opposite, but we KNOW and feel it and get a lot of prove over our life.
But they - I don’t know - hope? wish? or whatever, that there is no God. They have to do a lot, to cover their latent and hidden (hidden to the inside as outside) hidden fear of "WHAT, IF THERE IS GOD AFTER ALL and it’s all true??? "
In fact, Christians couldn’t stand this unsure situation. Those who live in God don’t just hope there is God, but they know!**
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Leela
Guest
In that post you claim that blievers have drunk poison without coming to harm, spoke in tongues, etc. I don’t know what sort of response you are looking for. Obviously, I doubt those claims.Still didn’t respond to post # 71… wonder why?
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Leela
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Respond this way? I was just trying to keep the thread focused by summarizing what has been claimed without commenting. Is there anything else you’d like to add to the list?
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Leela
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I don’t know any atheists who think that life is meaningless. The difference is whether or not you expect meaning to come from somewhere external to the universe. I don’t need to look any further than my friends and family to find meaning and can find meaning everywhere I look.I believe in God because otherwise there is no way to make sense of anything. The French atheist philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre got it right. If there is no God, existence is absurd. But since everything in my life is reaching out for meaning, I refuse to believe that the entire universe is meaningless. That is an act of will, not intellect. The atheist also commits an act of will, deciding deliberately (not out of intellectual conviction, because there is no way to prove atheism) that the entire universe is meaningless. It just is.
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Charlemagne_II
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Leela
*I don’t need to look any further than my friends and family to find meaning and can find meaning everywhere I look. *
You may find comfort and consolation, but you still don’t find meaning. If the universe is meaningless, everything in it is meaningless.
*I don’t need to look any further than my friends and family to find meaning and can find meaning everywhere I look. *
You may find comfort and consolation, but you still don’t find meaning. If the universe is meaningless, everything in it is meaningless.
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Leela
Guest
How could you possibly know whether I find meaning in my life? You seem to think that if I don’t find the same meaning in life as you do, then I find no meaning at all. You seem to think that the universe itself or things in it have specific meaning that everyone should agree on. So tell me, what does the universe mean? What does a tree mean? What does a rock mean? What does it mean to say that something means something?
Best,
Leela
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tomarin
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I think she means that there is no meaning outside of what meaning humans create themselves.
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twb1621
Guest
Your doubt means nothing because it is baseless. In that sense, if you really wanted to know the truth you would do what the normal person would do wanting to know the truth, research it, learn about it and what supports or refutes the claims. Your just not that interested in wanting to know the truth which has been my point all along.
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twb1621
Guest
actually it is a response to your list, not mine… your words were based on sarcasm as a response. That was what you offered rather than look any further into the the information offered to you. So if you are in fact looking, what is it you are looking for? Someone to hand you the proof in answer to the one big question which would require
God standing in front of you? One day you may actually have the interest to find out “just in case”…
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Leela
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You’re correct. I really don’t have an interest in researching the claims of miracles you mentioned. I probably have about the same interest that you do in reasearching all the claims of miracles made by adherents to faiths that you do not profess.
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Leela
Guest
You’ve taken my participation in this thread in the wrong way. Bruno started a thread called “why we believe” and I am interested to know why Catholics believe what they do. I am not looking to be convinced of anything. I’d just like to know what your reasining or evidence is. My doubt is not of interest to this thread.
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