Why we need to stand up against Anti-Gay sentiment

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JimmyG88 said:
And you are 100% certain of this? I would strongly urge you to speak to people who are gay and ask them. It’s a perfectly simple route to finding out the truth, unless they would all lie
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Science is 100% sure that it cannot definitively identify a cause. “Born that way” is speculation. It might be true, but is still not a cause. Is it genetic? Is it a consequence of some hormonal or other process gone wrong in utero? Are elements of nurture involved? A combination of factors? It is unknown.
 
Rau said:
Science is 100% sure that it cannot definitively identify a cause. “Born that way” is speculation. It might be true, but is still not a cause. Is it genetic? Is it a consequence of some hormonal or other process gone wrong in utero? Are elements of nurture involved? A combination of factors? It is unknown.
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It certainly isn’t speculation of the testimony of thousands of Gay people is to be believed. With no definitive explanation it’s probably part of God’s design then
 
JimmyG88 said:
…Etiology being a word used commonly to describe the origins of a disease. I certainly don’t regard sex as a disease to be endured and neither does the Church.
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I agree. Use “cause” if you prefer. Is the underlying mechanism that “causes” boy to be attracted to girl identified and understood? Has any explanation been offered by science why that obviously appropriate attraction might not arise in some? Or why some might see member of their own sex as sexually desirable?
 
Rau said:
I agree. Use “cause” if you prefer. Is the underlying mechanism that “causes” boy to be attracted to girl identified and understood? Has any explanation been offered by science why that obviously appropriate attraction might not arise in some? Or why some might see member of their own sex as sexually desirable?
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Or why some are attracted to both or neither. It must be part of God’s plan. I simply see no other explanation and you point out no one else can explain it
 
JimmyG88 said:
It certainly isn’t speculation of the testimony of thousands of Gay people is to be believed. With no definitive explanation it’s probably part of God’s design then
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Myriad pschological conditions, myriad philias, etc have no explanation. No one concludes they are “part of God’s design”.

The testimony of thousands of gay persons is evidence of their experience, not why they experience it.
 
JimmyG88 said:
… I simply see no other explanation and you point out no one else can explain it
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. This would seem to be the very definition of “speculation”!

Do you now assert that should a cause be discovered, then you’ll retract and say it’s not God’s plan? 🤷

The Church does not attribute our fallen nature to God’s plan.
 
Rau said:
. This would seem to be the very definition of “speculation”!

Do you now assert that should a cause be discovered, then you’ll retract and say it’s not God’s plan? 🤷

The Church does not attribute our fallen nature to God’s plan.
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Then maybe it’s an intrinsic part of our fallen nature. Seems a bit rich to exclude other parts of fallen humanity because they have fallen a different way
 
JimmyG88 said:
Then maybe it’s an intrinsic part of our fallen nature. Seems a bit rich to exclude other parts of fallen humanity because they have fallen a different way
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Who’s excluding anything? It is sufficient to say that SSA is a product of our fallen nature. That statement does not identify cause. It does not mean we are “born that way”. But nor does it exclude that possibility.
 
Rau said:
Who’s excluding anything? It is sufficient to say that SSA is a product of our fallen nature. That statement does not identify cause. It does not mean we are “born that way”. But nor does it exclude that possibility.
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We are born that way though are we not. We have to be Baptised
 
Rau said:
Born what way? As fallen, sure. But all that may go awry in man is not determined at birth.
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I’m not talking about predestination but the nature of the vast majority of gay people (according to them) is born with them its intrinsic. Who is to say that only this part of our fallen nature is any worse than any other. If heterosexuals can’t be chaste they must marry
And gays?
 
JimmyG88 said:
I’m not talking about predestination but the nature of the vast majority of gay people (according to them) is born with them its intrinsic. Who is to say that only this part of our fallen nature is any worse than any other. If heterosexuals can’t be chaste they must marry
And gays?
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What is intrinsic? :confused: Is alcoholism intrinsic? All mental disorders? Were these comfitions “intrinsic” at birth? How could someone know this about SSA, but not some other condition?

Who claims one part of our fallen nature is worse than any other? Certainly some afflictions are worse than others. So what?

Some people, for lack of opportunity, never marry - whether or not they remain chaste. What are they to do? What do you propose for the person who experiences SSA, and feels unable to pursue marriage?
 
Rau said:
What is intrinsic? :confused: Is alcoholism intrinsic? All mental disorders? Were these comfitions “intrinsic” at birth? How could someone know this about SSA, but not some other condition?

Who claims one part of our fallen nature is worse than any other? Certainly some afflictions are worse than others. So what?

Some people, for lack of opportunity, never marry - whether or not they remain chaste. What are they to do? What do you propose for the person who experiences SSA, and feels unable to pursue marriage?
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I would say yes to alcoholism and mental disorders. But this discussion can’t progress while you simply rewrite my questions and repost them. Still, it’s made you ask the right things
 
JimmyG88 said:
I would say yes to alcoholism and mental disorders.
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Your insights exceed those of science (which, again, is why they are speculation). Those suffering You are welcome to hold your opinions, but you should acknowledge that evidence is lacking.

I repeat your question about what should a person do who experiences SSA yet feels unable to pursue marriage, because it is a good question. My answer is as given in the Catechism, and the answer is unconnected with the cause of the inclination. It is equally true regardless of the cause:

“These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition… Homosexual persons are called to chastity…”

I am yet to hear your answer.
 
JB_Brother_4446 said:
Show me a Cathecism quote. Then I’ll believe you.
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CCC:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive
or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.

I believe the “predominant group” should be referred to as “bisexual persons”, if the Magisterium wants to
consistently adhere to some of the tenets of the LGBT orthodoxy. I believe the Magisterium has taken the
wrong path and should repent.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
CCC:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive
or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.

I believe the “predominant group” should be referred to as “bisexual persons”, if the Magisterium wants to
consistently adhere to some of the tenets of the LGBT orthodoxy. I believe the Magisterium has taken the
wrong path and should repent.

God bless
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Oh you are quite right there. Science shows that in essence sexuality for everyone is a spectrum
 
JimmyG88 said:
Oh you are quite right there. Science shows that in essence sexuality for everyone is a spectrum
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Do you agree that the Magisterium should correct it’s error?

Do you think anyone is incapable of OSA? I do not.

Do you think the Magisterium should recognize “homosexual persons”, “bisexual persons”,
“transgender persons” and any other type of “persons” that people self-identify as? I do not.

God bless
 
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