Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

[Gabriel_of_12]

Well, Moondweller, from what I’ve seen here I can only conclude that it doesn’t, even a little bit.

This is where you both miss the boat, It is Jesus authority from his divinity through the Holy Spirit reveals Infallible Truth to his humanity his body of Christ on earth the Holy apostolic Catholic church. This is your misunderstanding about the Roman Catholic Church. Dates, persons does not change what is already believed in the infallible teachings of Jesus Christ.

What if your Pastor told you that he got a revelation from God and God told him to write a new testament that speaks contrary to the Holy Bible. Because you have no infallible teacher, many of you will fall for such a new Gospel, as did the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.

That is why again infallibility of the Holy Spirit reveals and protects the Church from entering error. But some of us have fallen for this deceptions today.

Thats the problem I see your having with Authority, you dont recognize Jesus body as you persecute him, Just as Saul did.

 

[Swan]

This is where you both miss the boat, It is Jesus authority from his divinity through the Holy Spirit reveals Infallible Truth to his humanity his body of Christ on earth the Holy apostolic Catholic church. This is your misunderstanding about the Roman Catholic Church. Dates, persons does not change what is already believed in the infallible teachings of Jesus Christ.

What if your Pastor told you that he got a revelation from God and God told him to write a new testament that speaks contrary to the Holy Bible. Because you have no infallible teacher, many of you will fall for such a new Gospel, as did the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.

That is why again infallibility of the Holy Spirit reveals and protects the Church from entering error. But some of us have fallen for this deceptions today.

Thats the problem I see your having with Authority, you dont recognize Jesus body as you persecute him, Just as Saul did.

The problem I see with your having someone with “infallible” authority (someone who says he’s infallible) is that he could tell you God instructed him to write a new Bible that is contrary the the Holy Bible and you’d believe him.

 

[onenow1]

HI,

Now what about the authors of the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter and others? Were they infallible people or were they sinners? We know Peter admitted that he was a sinner, and we all know the story of Saul who became Paul. We know they were all sinners. How then, could fallible men write such inerrant documents as the books they authored? It is because they were guided by the Holy Spirit. GOD prevented them from writing error. GOD is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If GOD prevented these men from writing error, why then could He not do the same for the successor of St. Peter today?

Luke 10:16?
“…and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” What else could this part of Luke 10:16 mean other than to be applied to those who reject the teaching of His Apostles and their successors through the one Church which He founded?

Peace, OneNow1:twocents:

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Jesus said, “I will build My church.” Not all, such as Augustine, interpreted Matt. 16:18 as referring to the person of Peter, but to rather to his confession. Which seems to fit the context far more accurately since Jesus said, “…and upon this (toute) rock I will build my church.” And further we see in Eph. 2:20 that the church is built not upon Peter as the foundation, but of the Apostles (plural) and N.T. prophets, Christ Himself being the corner stone.

Catholics dont deny Eph.2:20 just your fallible interpretation of it. it says nothing about Peter isn’t the foundation, and yes upon the Apostles but this scripture does not negate or delegate authority either. Only your misinterpretation of it does not support the scripture Eph.2:20. Catholics believe Ephesians in its context spoken and the foundation of all the apostles.

But how do you forget Jesus words to an a epistle, Are we to forget what he stated to Peter, about Keys singular. You are confusing foundation with authority the two are very different last time I looked them up in the dictionary.

So you see I think you are talking about one authority and thinking about the foundation being the same thing, but they are not the same.

Besides when you interpret Eph. 2:20 am I to assume that you are talking about the apostles faith as you charge Jesus was to Peter, being called “Rock” as his faith. Because If you do think about it, it conflicts with alot of scripture.

Augustine of Hippo recognized the authority of the Pope, why dont you? being that you quote him. I dont know of your interpretation of Augustine either, now that you have fallibly misinterpreted Ephesians 2:20, how am I to trust your commentary to a Great Catholic Saint.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The problem I see with your having someone with “infallible” authority (someone who says he’s infallible) is that he could tell you God instructed him to write a new Bible that is contrary the the Holy Bible and you’d believe him.

I can understand your concern here. But the Pope will not use his ex cathedra to invent something new in Christianity. He will only use it to protect christianity. that is a big difference from thinking a man is infallible than the divine authority given him and only through the Holy Spirit does the Pope act “Thus says the Lord”. The first Supreme Magisterium used Infallibility in Acts 15:17 see where after Peter spoke they all fell silent, and then James proclaims “Thus Says the Lord” this is infallible authority excercised in scripture.

What others have told you about the infallible doctrine, is not the same the way Catholics view it, and the way the Pope excercises it, if he has too.

Protesters want you to think that the Pope makes himself out to be a god. When this is a lie about Infallible doctrine. Infallibility protects the teachings of Jesus Christ from being taught in error.Dont believe the hype outsiders make it out to be.

 

[onenow1]

Hi,

The ‘Laying on of hands’ to convey authority and leadership is prefigured in the Old Testament.

Num 27:15-23, Then Moses said to the Lord, “May the Lord, the GOD of the spirits of all mankind, set over the community a man who shall act as their leader in all things, to guide them in all their actions; that the Lord’s community may not be like sheep without a shepherd.” And the Lord replied to Moses, “Take Joshua, son of Nun, a man of spirit, and lay your hands upon him. Have him stand in the presence of the priest Eleazar and of the whole community, and commission him before their eyes. Invest him with some of your own dignity, that the whole Israelite community may obey him. He shall present himself to the priest Eleazar, to have him seek out for him the decisions of the Urim in the Lord’s presence; and as He directs, Joshua, all the Israelites with him, and the community as a whole shall perform all their actions.” Moses did as the Lord had commanded him. Taking Joshua and having him stand in the presence of the priest Eleazar and of the whole community, he laid his hands on him and gave him his commission, as the Lord had directed through Moses."

Luke 24: 27 Then starting with Moses and going through all the prophets, he explained to them the passages throughout the scriptures, that were about himself.

Luke 16: 17 it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one little stroke to drop out of the law to become void.

Matt 5:17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

Peace,OneNow1

 

[moondweller]

HI,

Now what about the authors of the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter and others? Were they infallible people or were they sinners? We know Peter admitted that he was a sinner, and we all know the story of Saul who became Paul. We know they were all sinners. How then, could fallible men write such inerrant documents as the books they authored? It is because they were guided by the Holy Spirit. GOD prevented them from writing error. GOD is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If GOD prevented these men from writing error, why then could He not do the same for the successor of St. Peter today?

Because it is written in the inerrant Scriptures that "All Scripture is inspired (theopneustos, “God-breathed)…” (2 Tim. 3:16). The men who wrote them were not themselves* infallible*, but the One who “breathed” the Scriptures through them was/is. No man is infallible (save the Theanthropic Man, Jesus Christ).

The canon of Scripture is closed and has been closed since the Apostolic age. Your Pope is not writing Scripture. He, like any of us, can only read and interpret them. What you have done is given him (and the Magisterium) total authority to govern your faith and you have accepted and believed their claim to infallibility.

 

[Swan]

Because it is written in the inerrant Scriptures that "All Scripture is inspired (theopneustos, “God-breathed)…” (2 Tim. 3:16). The men who wrote them were not themselves* infallible*, but the One who “breathed” the Scriptures through them was/is. No man is infallible (save the Theanthropic Man, Jesus Christ).

The canon of Scripture is closed and has been closed since the Apostolic age. Your Pope is not writing Scripture. He, like any of us, can only read and interpret them. What you have done is given him (and the Magisterium) total authority to govern your faith and you have accepted and believed their claim to infallibility.

Ditto.

You can go on and on about non-Catholic interpretations being “fallible” all you want - but again, this is simply a matter of opinion. Your only “proof” is your own claim, your own interpreation. As to the pope not being able to teach anything contrary to scripture, this is once again only your interpretation. You believe he can’t make a mistake so you believe all he says.

 

[janw]

I do not wish to change the subject, but I have searched for days, reading soooooo many post to find an answer to a question I have and I thought possibly this might be the right place. I an still learning the catholic faith after 5 years of study and started rcia this year. I am not trilled over our class, but I just want to be catholic as I have come to LOVE the church. The person teaching our class told us, we are to say we are catholic not Roman Catholic. I thought I was in a Roman Catholic church so I do not understand. I watch EWTN for years and from what I’ve seen this parish believes the same things. So what is the difference. Does any one know of a thread that discusses this, if so please let me know.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Because it is written in the inerrant Scriptures that "All Scripture is inspired (theopneustos, “God-breathed)…” (2 Tim. 3:16). The men who wrote them were not themselves* infallible*, but the One who “breathed” the Scriptures through them was/is. No man is infallible (save the Theanthropic Man, Jesus Christ).

Thank God, You are starting to get it, infallibility is only through the teacher of the Church the Holy Spirit. No man is infallible, I dont understand why non catholics think so highly of the our Pope like that, it is a misunderstanding of infallibility. You are almost there, now that we have gotten pass first base. Now all you need to do is listen to Jesus words, and follow who he left with this authority. Then your home. Good job moondweller

The canon of Scripture is closed and has been closed since the Apostolic age.

The CATHOLIC CHURCH CANNONIZED THE BIBLE INFALLIBLY. when infallibly is attached, it is saying the Holy Spirit has confirmed this faith, and “Thus says the Lord”

Your Pope is not writing Scripture. He, like any of us, can only read and interpret them.

But you and I are not like The chair of Peter the Pope, Did Jesus give you the keys to the kingdom of God? NO!, did Jesus himself tell you that he was going to build his church on your name like he did Peter? No! did Jesus give you the power to forgive sins? NO! Did Jesus give you the power to bind and loose on earth? No! But he did Peter, our present day Pope.

No you and I do not have the authority to bind and loose, we cant interpret scripture for teaching and feeding God’s flock, Peter was commanded by Jesus to feed and teach his people, not your pastor or you or me. Authority in the Catholic church rests totally with the Holy Spirit and Jesus body the instrument to bind and loose on earth, and he, Jesus will bind and loose in heaven, what Peter decides to bind and loose under the Holy Spirit.

Iam glad to see your eyes are beginning to see.

What you have done is given him (and the Magisterium) total authority to govern your faith and you have accepted and believed their claim to infallibility.

This is were you are wrong, Catholics dont give up our faith to the magisterium like you suppose, we are free to accept the teachings of Jesus Christ or reject them. The Magisterium is placed here on earth to protect the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles, not to change them. And through the Holy Spirit teach and feed God’s people as commanded by Jesus hiimself which included baptise all nations, to which the Catholic church has been faithful. And if necessary call on the Holy Spirit to protect the teachings of Jesus Ex Cathedra through Peter.

When you get to heaven, who do you think is going to be there at the pearly gate, “Peter”.

 

[jblake]

janw;:

The person teaching our class told us, we are to say we are catholic not Roman Catholic. I thought I was in a Roman Catholic church so I do not understand.

There are several branches of Christianity:

• Oriental Christianity;
• Orthodox Christianity;
• Catholic Christianity;
• Protestant Christianity:
• Restoration Movement Christianity;

Each of those branches consists of several branches.

The Roman Catholic Church is a branch of Catholic Christianity.

What your instructor is doing, is emphasizing the major branch that you are in, rather than the sub branch.

xan

jonathon

 

[moondweller]

This is were you are wrong, Catholics dont give up our faith to the magisterium like you suppose, we are free to accept the teachings of Jesus Christ or reject them.

I didn’t say you give up your faith, I said you have given to your Pope and his Magisterium total authority to govern your faith. You have given them the authority to dictate what you may and may not believe.

The Magisterium is placed here on earth to protect the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles, not to change them.

We have the teachings of Christ and the Apostles written down, hard copied, in the Scriptures. And by these Scriptures we can test what men teach contrary to Christ and His Apostles.

When you get to heaven, who do you think is going to be there at the pearly gate, “Peter”.

You see, this is why I love the Scriptures, I can test what other men teach. The Scriptures say, 2 Cor 5:6-8 "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord – for we walk by faith, not by sight – we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."Nope! Not at home with Peter. But I will be “at home with the Lord.” I will pass through no gates, but go directly Home to be with my Lord to whom and with whom I belong.

You see why I need the Scriptures? Sometimes I need to correct the teachings of men like you. Men who change what was taught from the beginning by the Apostles.

 

[Mickey]

That’s all ya got for me… “innovation”, “innovation”, “innovation”.

Nah. Read your Church history.

You will see that this strange doctrine of supreme infallibility as it exists in today’s Latin Church never existed in the undivided Church. You will see that the Ultramontanes of post-schism Rome pushed hard for this strange doctrine. You will see that this strange doctrine was finally forced on the Roman Catholic Church by Pius IX and defined in 1870.

Read your history. You will see.

 

[Mickey]

The person teaching our class told us, we are to say we are catholic not Roman Catholic. I thought I was in a Roman Catholic church so I do not understand. I watch EWTN for years and from what I’ve seen this parish believes the same things. So what is the difference. Does any one know of a thread that discusses this, if so please let me know.

There are 23 different sui juris Catholic Churches. The Latin Church (often referred to as Roman Catholic) is but one of these (albeit the largest). Some people are offended by the term Roman Catholic. There is no reason for offense–I think it is a problem that originates in the person who is teaching you.

 

[onenow1]

Because it is written in the inerrant Scriptures that "All Scripture is inspired (theopneustos, “God-breathed)…” (2 Tim. 3:16). The men who wrote them were not themselves* infallible*, but the One who “breathed” the Scriptures through them was/is. No man is infallible (save the Theanthropic Man, Jesus Christ).

The canon of Scripture is closed and has been closed since the Apostolic age. Your Pope is not writing Scripture. He, like any of us, can only read and interpret them. What you have done is given him (and the Magisterium) total authority to govern your faith and you have accepted and believed their claim to infallibility.

Quote= OneNow1. Our very lives are God breathed and I know i’m not infallible.

As to Tim. 3: 16. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Profitable= Useful, beneficial. It does not mean all encompassing.

Quote= Moondweller.] What you have done is given him (and the Magisterium) total authority to govern your faith and you have accepted and believed their claim to infallibility.

OneNow1] So you claim it with your understanding ?

By the way Timothy was talking about O.T… scripture.

Who closed the canon of the N.T. ?

Peace, OneNow1

 

[moondweller]

Quote= OneNow1. Our very lives are God breathed and I know i’m not infallible.

LOL You’re not theopneustos. God breathed life into Adam but that’s not what theopneustos means. Still LOL.

As to Tim. 3: 16. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Profitable= Useful, beneficial. It does not mean all encompassing.

The Holy Spirit states there that ALL Scripture is God-breathed. That’s the point. And ALL Scripture would by default include the N.T. Or are you claiming that the N.T. is not theopneustos?

Quote= Moondweller.] What you have done is given him (and the Magisterium) total authority to govern your faith and you have accepted and believed their claim to infallibility.

OneNow1] So you claim it with your understanding ?

No. But I do claim that individual believers can understand and interpret Scripture correctly. Especially those passages that reveal salvation in the N.T. Others may and do take some study and research.

By the way Timothy was talking about O.T… scripture.

It was Paul writing to Timothy. But the key word there is “ALL.”

Who closed the canon of the N.T. ?

The Holy Spirit at the end of the Apostolic age. Jesus said to His Apostles that the Holy Spirit would teach them all things and bring to THEIR REMEMBRANCE all that He said to them (Jn. 14:26). So the canon of Scripture had to end after the Apostolic age.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I didn’t say you give up your faith, I said you have given to your Pope and his Magisterium total authority to govern your faith. You have given them the authority to dictate what you may and may not believe.We have the teachings of Christ and the Apostles written down, hard copied, in the Scriptures.

But you are forgetting who gave you the scriptures to read from. The Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. And you have no claim to an authority to teach you the Gospels, only your interpretations what your freewill dictates what you want to believe. This is not truth from the Holy Spirit, nor the Will of God, but your own will that kicks against the goad.

And by these Scriptures we can test what men teach contrary to Christ and His Apostles.You see, this is why I love the Scriptures, I can test what other men teach. The Scriptures say, 2 Cor 5:6-8 "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord – for we walk by faith, not by sight – we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."Nope! Not at home with Peter. But I will be “at home with the Lord.” I will pass through no gates, but go directly Home to be with my Lord to whom and with whom I belong.

**Who do you think are going to be sitting on the 12 thrones with the lord? See this is why you cant interpret scripture because all scripture must be compatible and not conflict. Your interpretation confilcts with alot of scripture. The Catholic church is the only christian faith that can teach from Sacred Scripture without conflicting God’s word., this is called Truth. which you yourself claim to have. Because with out the Catholic bible, you have no truth. Think about it? **

You see why I need the Scriptures? Sometimes I need to correct the teachings of men like you. Men who change what was taught from the beginning by the Apostles.

This is where you misinterpret what I say and what scripture says. You are claiming I believe one way when I have revealed to you, another, Peter was correct when he told the corinthians about pauls letters, you misinterpret his teachings, you need an authoritative teacher to teach you the things of the Spirit. Unless you have the authority of the Holy Spirit given to you to interpret his teachings, all you have is a opinion of a truth, which can or cannot be true , that is the risk you dare run for your soul, when we have been given the guarantee of truth from the Holy Spirit and the body of Jesus Christ.

Remember it is from the Catholic church where you get your christian faith. In your protest against the one true faith, you dictate from 2000 years of Christianity which beliefs you want to take from her. because your faith leaders did not go to their deaths for what little christian faith you have come to believe.

Learn from the original Christians, the apostles, and their successors, the saints and martyrs. These will reveal Catholic teaching through and through, they did not invent their own faith of belief, but submitted to the Authority of the Apostles, and Popes.

 

[moondweller]

But you are forgetting who gave you the scriptures to read from.

Well, let’s see. There was Paul, John, Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Jude, James, Moses, David and all the major and minor O.T. prophets.

The Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

No. Not according to Scripture itself.Eph 3:1-5 "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles – if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;"Get that? “His holy Apostles and prophets in the Spirit.” The church (the body of Christ, which is made up of all true believers) was given the Scriptures through specific men. Paul being one of them. The church, as an entity, wrote none of them. And, btw, I am a member of Christ’s universal church, and I don’t claim to have written any Scripture.

And you have no claim to an authority to teach you the Gospels,

You’ll notice that in the Bible none of the Books contained there are addressed to divinely “authorized” interpreters. There is absolutely no mention or teaching of “authorized” interpreters of Scripture. Where would it stop? Why would you not need an authorized interpreter of the interpreter? And then an authorized interpreter of the interpreter of the interpreter? LOL. How would you know that you, personally, are correctly understanding your interpreter? Bottom line, there’s no such thing as a divinely, authorized interpreter of Scripture. There are only the divinely, inspired Scriptures, but no such thing as a divinely authorized interpreter of them.

only your interpretations what your freewill dictates what you want to believe.

If I believed what I wanted to, then I would have no reason to read/study the Scriptures. However you, on the other hand, willingly have believed that someone other than you has the authority over what you’re to believe, so you don’t necessarily need a Bible. Which, in fact, was the case for most of the laymen of Christendom for centuries before the Reformation - most of it’s clergy as well. You do realize that it was through the great influence of the Reformation that you personally own a copy of the Scriptures - much less in your own language. The notion that the church consists of all of God’s elect and therefore all the elect should read the Bible originated with men within the Catholic church. It was the hierarchy of the RCC, for the sake of self-preservation, that resisted it.

This is not truth from the Holy Spirit, nor the Will of God, but your own will that kicks against the goad.

No. It’s my love of God’s word that keeps me exploring and studying the Scriptures (I can 't get enough of it). And the FACT that there is nothing stated in His Word that prohibits it.

Who do you think are going to be sitting on the 12 thrones with the lord?

What does this have to do with your comment about me having to check in with Peter at some pearly gates before entering heaven? I provided you Scripture that clearly contradicts such a fantasy. As for those sitting on the twelve thrones, they have absolutely nothing to do with me being present with my Lord at the time of my death.Matt 19:28 "And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."This passage is in reference to Israel’s Messiah’s yet anticipted reign on earth. The context is Christ’s return to this earth as Israel’s King to set up His promised, earthly Kingdom.Matt 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne."That future event will finally fulfill (literally) the words Gabriel said to Mary in Lk. 1:32-33, and many O.T. prophecies concerning the Davidic Kingdom. Jesus promised His Jewish Apostles that during that expanded time (1000 years) they would judge the 12 tribes of ISRAEL. But none of this has anything to do with me or the church Christ is presently building. A whole different program.

The Catholic church is the only christian faith that can teach from Sacred Scripture without conflicting God’s word.

This is an assertion, not a divinely, revealed fact. It’s what you, a RC, are dictated to believe, hence, you parrot it.

Remember it is from the Catholic church where you get your christian faith.

No, that’s from where you get yours. My faith rests in God’s written Word, the original source - Holy Spirit inspired and preserved in writing for the subsequent generations after the Apostolic age. It’s always best to go back to the original source.

 

[BamaRider]

Well, let’s see. There was Paul, John, Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Jude, James, Moses, David and all the major and minor O.T. prophets.No. Not according to Scripture itself.Eph 3:1-5 "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles – if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;"Get that? “His holy Apostles and prophets in the Spirit.” The church (the body of Christ, which is made up of all true believers) was given the Scriptures through specific men. Paul being one of them. The church, as an entity, wrote none of them. And, btw, I am a member of Christ’s universal church, and I don’t claim to have written any Scripture.You’ll notice that in the Bible none of the Books contained there are addressed to divinely “authorized” interpreters. There is absolutely no mention or teaching of “authorized” interpreters of Scripture. Where would it stop? Why would you not need an authorized interpreter of the interpreter? And then an authorized interpreter of the interpreter of the interpreter? LOL. How would you know that you, personally, are correctly understanding your interpreter? Bottom line, there’s no such thing as a divinely, authorized interpreter of Scripture. There are only the divinely, inspired Scriptures, but no such thing as a divinely authorized interpreter of them.If I believed what I wanted to, then I would have no reason to read/study the Scriptures. However you, on the other hand, willingly have believed that someone other than you has the authority over what you’re to believe, so you don’t necessarily need a Bible. Which, in fact, was the case for most of the laymen of Christendom for centuries before the Reformation - most of it’s clergy as well. You do realize that it was through the great influence of the Reformation that you personally own a copy of the Scriptures - much less in your own language. The notion that the church consists of all of God’s elect and therefore all the elect should read the Bible originated with men within the Catholic church. It was the hierarchy of the RCC, for the sake of self-preservation, that resisted it.No. It’s my love of God’s word that keeps me exploring and studying the Scriptures (I can 't get enough of it). And the FACT that there is nothing stated in His Word that prohibits it.What does this have to do with your comment about me having to check in with Peter at some pearly gates before entering heaven? I provided you Scripture that clearly contradicts such a fantasy. As for those sitting on the twelve thrones, they have absolutely nothing to do with me being present with my Lord at the time of my death.Matt 19:28 "And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."This passage is in reference to Israel’s Messiah’s yet anticipted reign on earth. The context is Christ’s return to this earth as Israel’s King to set up His promised, earthly Kingdom.Matt 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne."That future event will finally fulfill (literally) the words Gabriel said to Mary in Lk. 1:32-33, and many O.T. prophecies concerning the Davidic Kingdom. Jesus promised His Jewish Apostles that during that expanded time (1000 years) they would judge the 12 tribes of ISRAEL. But none of this has anything to do with me or the church Christ is presently building. A whole different program.This is an assertion, not a divinely, revealed fact. It’s what you, a RC, are dictated to believe, hence, you parrot it.No, that’s from where you get yours. My faith rests in God’s written Word, the original source - Holy Spirit inspired and preserved in writing for the subsequent generations after the Apostolic age. It’s always best to go back to the original source.

 

[moondweller]

I know, you’re asleep. I already knew that.