Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

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Catechism of the Catholic Church

**899 **The initiative of lay Christians is necessary especially when the matter involves discovering or inventing the means for permeating social, political, and economic realities with the demands of Christian doctrine and life. This initiative is a normal element of the life of the Church:

Lay believers are in the front line of Church life; for them the Church is the animating principle of human society. Therefore, they in particular ought to have an ever-clearer consciousness not only of belonging to the Church, but of being the Church, that is to say, the community of the faithful on earth under the leadership of the Pope, the common Head, and of the bishops in communion with him. They are the Church.
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Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

Leaders and leadership positions exist in every aspect of our lives.

A “chain of command” with a leader at the top and an upper echelon (central leadership) is essential to any large organization. Any organization without a central command, where authority is not passed down from the top, through a series of steps or positions, with each person accountable to the one(s) directly above them, leads to confusion, chaos and that organization is ultimately doomed to failure.

Christianity has never been a democracy and Christianity has always had leaders.

Decision-making responsibilities always originate from the “top” of any properly structured organization, from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels. This is called leadership.

Leadership encourages compliance without dissension. Most organizations’ have a ‘pyramid” type structure or something very close.

All Governments have various leadership positions.
All Businesses have various leadership positions.
All Militaries have various leadership positions
All Professional Sports Teams have various leadership positions.

They all have a leadership structure or “chain of command", which starts at the top from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels.

I can go on forever with examples of leaders, leadership and various organizations with a “chain of command”.

Leadership is “structure”, that’s all it is. Human beings have always craved “structure” in their lives, going all the way back to tribal leaders, it’s in our nature.

Structure is a good thing, it prevents confusion and chaos.

There are 2500+ Catholic Dioceses worldwide and one billion Catholics. It is unreasonable to expect there not to be a “chain of command” and a leadership structure in the Roman Catholic Church and this would include the head of the Church here on earth, the Pope.

The Pope is the “glue”, which holds it all together.

If it was not for the Roman Catholic Pope and the centrally organized structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there would not be a Bible today, there would not be Christianity today, and we would not be having this discussion.

Christianity would have been wiped from the face of the earth, well before any “Protestant” movement.

Why is it, that there are so many “Christians” who experience a “chain of command” or a hierarchy in ever aspect of their lives cannot accept this concept, when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope?

Finally, all families have a “pecking order’ or various levels of authority, with the parents at the top, over their children. there is no democracy in a family. Christianity (Catholicism) is one big family, and our “papa” is the Pope.

Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?
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Why not recognize the Office of the Pope?

I would like to hear the “official” non-Catholic, Protestant and/or “former Catholic” response to this, if there is one, my guess is that there are many different Protestant “twists” on this subject.

Is anyone here afraid of being guilty of the sin of apostasy or heresy?
 
Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

Leaders and leadership positions exist in every aspect of our lives.

A “chain of command” with a leader at the top and an upper echelon (central leadership) is essential to any large organization. Any organization without a central command, where authority is not passed down from the top, through a series of steps or positions, with each person accountable to the one(s) directly above them, leads to confusion, chaos and that organization is ultimately doomed to failure.

Christianity has never been a democracy and Christianity has always had leaders.

Decision-making responsibilities always originate from the “top” of any properly structured organization, from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels. This is called leadership.

Leadership encourages compliance without dissension. Most organizations’ have a ‘pyramid” type structure or something very close.
  • All Governments have various leadership positions.
  • All Businesses have various leadership positions.
  • All Militaries have various leadership positions
  • All Professional Sports Teams have various leadership positions.
    They all have a leadership structure or “chain of command", which starts at the top from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels.
I can go on forever with examples of leaders, leadership and various organizations with a “chain of command”.

Leadership is “structure”, that’s all it is. Human beings have always craved “structure” in their lives, going all the way back to tribal leaders, it’s in our nature.

Structure is a good thing, it prevents confusion and chaos.

There are 2500+ Catholic Dioceses worldwide and one billion Catholics. It is unreasonable to expect there not to be a “chain of command” and a leadership structure in the Roman Catholic Church and this would include the head of the Church here on earth, the Pope.

The Pope is the “glue”, which holds it all together.

If it was not for the Roman Catholic Pope and the centrally organized structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there would not be a Bible today, there would not be Christianity today, and we would not be having this discussion.

Christianity would have been wiped from the face of the earth, well before any “Protestant” movement.

Why is it, that there are so many “Christians” who experience a “chain of command” or a hierarchy in ever aspect of their lives cannot accept this concept, when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope?

Finally, all families have a “pecking order’ or various levels of authority, with the parents at the top, over their children. there is no democracy in a family. Christianity (Catholicism) is one big family, and our “papa” is the Pope.

Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader
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Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader
 
Maybe because Cardinals of the RCC do not recognize the Pope as their leader, just as a “brother”.
Check out this quote:

*LOURDES (Hautes-Pyrenees), 14 September 2008 (AFP) - Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois, president of the Conference of Bishops of France, stressed that the relationship between the pope and the bishops “is not a servile relationship of subordination”.

“The relationship of the pope with the bishops is not a boss/employee relationship. He is not the CEO of a multinational corporation who is coming to visit a branch office,” said Cardinal Vingt-Trois during a press briefing held after the meeting between the pope and the bishops.

“We have welcomed him and listened to him as a brother who has come to reinforce the faith of those with whom he works and with whom he is in communion,” said the Cardinal Archbishop of Paris.

“We are in a relationship of communion, of affection, and of collaboration. And when we have things to say to him, we say them” said Cardinal Vingt-Trois.

Earlier the pope had spoke before the bishops calling for the steadfastness of the Church in the face of the challenges of the contemporary world – a speech with the tone of a directive which was met by somewhat lukewarm applause.*

Hmmmmmmmmm
 
Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

Leaders and leadership positions exist in every aspect of our lives.

A “chain of command” with a leader at the top and an upper echelon (central leadership) is essential to any large organization. Any organization without a central command, where authority is not passed down from the top, through a series of steps or positions, with each person accountable to the one(s) directly above them, leads to confusion, chaos and that organization is ultimately doomed to failure.

Christianity has never been a democracy and Christianity has always had leaders.

Decision-making responsibilities always originate from the “top” of any properly structured organization, from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels. This is called leadership.

Leadership encourages compliance without dissension. Most organizations’ have a ‘pyramid” type structure or something very close.

All Governments have various leadership positions.
All Businesses have various leadership positions.
All Militaries have various leadership positions
All Professional Sports Teams have various leadership positions.

They all have a leadership structure or “chain of command", which starts at the top from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels.

I can go on forever with examples of leaders, leadership and various organizations with a “chain of command”.

Leadership is “structure”, that’s all it is. Human beings have always craved “structure” in their lives, going all the way back to tribal leaders, it’s in our nature.

Structure is a good thing, it prevents confusion and chaos.

There are 2500+ Catholic Dioceses worldwide and one billion Catholics. It is unreasonable to expect there not to be a “chain of command” and a leadership structure in the Roman Catholic Church and this would include the head of the Church here on earth, the Pope.

The Pope is the “glue”, which holds it all together.

If it was not for the Roman Catholic Pope and the centrally organized structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there would not be a Bible today, there would not be Christianity today, and we would not be having this discussion.

Christianity would have been wiped from the face of the earth, well before any “Protestant” movement.

Why is it, that there are so many “Christians” who experience a “chain of command” or a hierarchy in ever aspect of their lives cannot accept this concept, when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope?

Finally, all families have a “pecking order’ or various levels of authority, with the parents at the top, over their children. there is no democracy in a family. Christianity (Catholicism) is one big family, and our “papa” is the Pope.

Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?
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Why would I? I don’t believe that the pope posesses supreme authority over anything or anybody.
 
Several years ago, Honda started working on building a robot. As time went on, they wanted to see if there were any ethical issues that might come up. After all, science fiction is always talking about robots becoming aware of themselves.

They made one and only one phone call, and met with one and only one theologin. It was the pope.

Now, if non-Christians can see the pope as the expert and leader, why can Christians not? They could have called Billy Graham. They could have called anyone BUT Rome. And yet, they did not.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader
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Unlike Catholic members most Spirit filled Christians study the Bible. I have found that the Catholic church was/is the little horn in Danial and the harlot in revelation that was drunk on the blood of the saints.
One that killed more people (that refused to bow to her) than Stalin and Hitler combined. Officially ruled from 538 to 1798 when Napoleons gen removed the the Pope from Rome and cast him into prison ending the 1260 year seat of satin, and his false church, with a fatal wound to his head that healed.

(1798 Berthier removed his ring and sent Pope Pius VI to France where he died in prision).

One who changes the laws and times. What did you ever do with the 2nd commandment? Changing the law that God wrote with his finger no doubt.
You deny that Jesus was born of the flesh. 1John 4:1
Buy claiming that Mary ascended into Heaven like Jesus and was without sin ect. ect. You deny that Jesus was the seed that God placed between women and Satin Gen 3:15. Sin entered into the world threw woman and God use (fallen) woman and (his seed) Jesus to restore men and women back to the kingdom of heaven. Mary was a decedent of fallen man, Jesus was a product of both, Mary the fallen woman/man and the Father in Heaven, (virgin birth) conception from God.
Buy venerating Mary you dont pass the Antichrist test in 1 and 2 John. You claim that Mary was also without sin or make her superior to Jesus as the god like vessel that bore Jesus.
Thus denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.:eek:
👍 Thats the good news of Jesus, Jimmy, very cleverly denied by the Roma Catholic Church.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello ChristianWAB,

I don’t think I understand your comments here. Every Christian denomination has a leader or many leaders and I am not aware of any religion, where all of the members have a “vote” or “(name removed by moderator)ut” into the “ascension” of their religious leaders. Catholicism isn’t about “empowering” you or me, it is about focusing on Jesus Christ and about humility and surrender.

Can you provide some examples, where all the members of any religious organization, “votes” for their leader or leaders?

Moreover, there are one billion Catholics world wide and over 2500 Catholic dioceses, so I it would be impossible for every Catholic to personally “know” the Pope.

Finally, when you wrote, “for millions of Christians who put their faith in Jesus instead of Ratzinger”, you wrongly implied that Catholics put their faith in the Pope, instead of Jesus and that is absolutely false. I put my faith in Christ above everthing.

Catholics put their faith in Jesus Christ, not the Pope. The Pope puts his faith in Jesus. The focus of Catholicism is on Jesus.

I don’t know where you got your ideas from regarding Catholicism but your information is wrong. I hope you continue to learn the truths about Catholicism and not more false information.

Peace 🙂
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Dont make me research all the positions of the catholic church.
If you deny your own church’s position then why do you stay?
Better yet why wont the Pope officially change it?
Catholics prefer to follow tradition rather than the Word of God.
Many many rites that have no biblical reference or are forbid as not of Christ. The biggest one that is in your face, is the removal of the second commandment. Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image.
How do you justify the removal of it by the C Church? The list is very long but a single explanation of this question will suffice for all of the other biblical contrary teachings of the universal church

bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm
 
Cause some like to see Jesus as their leader not a human. Maybe thats akward to you, but I much rather listen to Jesus then to the Pope. Even if Jesus does talk “through” the pope, I do not think its wrong to talk to Jesus directly, without anyone getting in the way.
 
JimmyB,

This was a recent post of your on this thread that I found interesting:

*Quote:

Catechism of the Catholic Church*

*899 The initiative of lay Christians is necessary especially when the matter involves discovering or inventing the means for permeating social, political, and economic realities with the demands of Christian doctrine and life. This initiative is a normal element of the life of the Church:

Lay believers are in the front line of Church life; for them the Church is the animating principle of human society. Therefore, they in particular ought to have an ever-clearer consciousness not only of belonging to the Church, but of being the Church, that is to say, the community of the faithful on earth under the leadership of the Pope, the common Head, and of the bishops in communion with him. They are the Church. *

This explains to me why most Christian don’t follow the Pope, because most Roman catholics don’t follow the Pope, especially on church doctrine such as birth control, abortion, regular attendance at mass, the list goes on and on.

The REAL question is, Why don’t more Roman Catholics (including many American bishops and clergy) accept the leadership and authority of the Pope. Until they do, why should the rest of us?
 
Perhaps because there’s this uneasy feeling in parts of Protestant-dom that the office of the pope could be the antichrist. A legacy of protestant reformers (see link) ???

remnantofgod.org/4fathers.htm

I believe (?) the Lutheran Church Missouri synod still proclaims that the antichrist is fullfilled in the office of the pope.

I don’t know much about previous popes but pope Bendict and his office don’t seem antichristian at all…just the opposite.
 
There is plenty of people that believe that the RC Church is the harlot in Rev and the little horn in Dan.
I dont prescribe to the 7 year tribulation ether, that interpretation came from a Jesuit to steer the non Bible readers away from seeing the RCC as the Antichrist church.

secret-rapture.com/

The time is getting late I would suggest that you people search for the truth. The RCC is very easy to question if you know Jesus threw the Holy Spirit and use your Bible. I would venture to say that most anyone could compare scripture with the RCC doctrine and have many questions.

P.S.
Its not the Pope per say but the institution. Good people follow bad doctrine. Saying that the Pope is God the Father on earth is just as silly as saying hes the devil on earth. But he can be influenced by ether.
 
For Bud02… The Pope is the #1 representative of Christ on earth.

You need a lot of prayer as your tone is not one of a christian reaching out to help others, but one of hatred and ignorance of the Catholic Church.

I have found, since coming to the Catholic Church after 48 years as a protestant, that catholics usually know more about their faith and the Bible than most protestants. I have known many protestants that jump all over the church on Sunday speaking in tongues and have options like yours, that know hardly anything about the Bible and believe they are so right they don’t need to study.

Your time would be better spent telling those folks the importance of Bible study and a little study of history wouldn’t be a bad idea.
 
janw said:
For Bud02… The Pope is the #1 representative of Christ on earth.

Your time would be better spent telling those folks the importance of Bible study and a little study of history wouldn’t be a bad idea.
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That is exactly what I recommend.
But so many here choose to reference the traditions of the church rather than research the truth in the bible.

I dont condemn the RCC the words of Jesus and the Bible do, your negative view is directed at the Bible not me.I’m merely pointing you to the word rather than your traditions.

Pope John Paul II referred to Mary as “Mediatrix of all grace” which flows to “all the faithful” (John Paul II, on the occasion of the liturgical memorial of Our Lady of Czestochowa, L’Osservatore Romano, 26 August 2001, source]. The Roman Pontiff taught, “As maternal Mediatrix, Mary presents our desires and petitions to Christ, and transmits the divine gifts to us, interceding continually on our behalf.” (John Paul II, General Audience Address, 24 September 1997, source).

Whereas the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are:
  1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
  2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
  4. Honor your father and mother.
  5. You shall not kill.
  6. You shall not commit adultery.
  7. You shall not steal.
  8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
From you own traditional resources Mary replaces/intercedes for Jesus, also there is no mention of graven images in your commandments.
So long as the RCC insist on tradition as more authoritative than than scripture we will never see eye to eye.
You will continue to reference tradition and neglect the Bible.

Mark 7-5
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?” 6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 8 “For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men*–the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.” 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

1 Tim 2-5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

Col 2-8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The Bible clearly addresses the traditions of men rather than the Word of God. Please direct your hostility to the source of your objection (the Word) that you may continue in your traditions.
 
For the record, having no God before God includes graven images.

It also includes worshipping money

Or sex

Or anything else we put before God.
 
bud02 said:
That is exactly what I recommend.
But so many here choose to reference the traditions of the church rather than research the truth in the bible.

I dont condemn the RCC the words of Jesus and the Bible do, your negative view is directed at the Bible not me.I’m merely pointing you to the word rather than your traditions.

Pope John Paul II referred to Mary as “Mediatrix of all grace” which flows to “all the faithful” (John Paul II, on the occasion of the liturgical memorial of Our Lady of Czestochowa, L’Osservatore Romano, 26 August 2001, source]. The Roman Pontiff taught, “As maternal Mediatrix, Mary presents our desires and petitions to Christ, and transmits the divine gifts to us, interceding continually on our behalf.” (John Paul II, General Audience Address, 24 September 1997, source).

Whereas the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are:
  1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
  2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
  4. Honor your father and mother.
  5. You shall not kill.
  6. You shall not commit adultery.
  7. You shall not steal.
  8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
From you own traditional resources Mary replaces/intercedes for Jesus, also there is no mention of graven images in your commandments.
So long as the RCC insist on tradition as more authoritative than than scripture we will never see eye to eye.
You will continue to reference tradition and neglect the Bible.

Mark 7-5
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?” 6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 8 “For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men*–the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.” 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

1 Tim 2-5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

Col 2-8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The Bible clearly addresses the traditions of men rather than the Word of God. Please direct your hostility to the source of your objection (the Word) that you may continue in your traditions.
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Bud I noticed you like to highlight any part of scripture that says “tradition” and apply it to mean that all tradition is evil and therefore the catholic church is evil.

What about the passages asking us to hold fast to the traditions handed down to us?

And please explain to us ignorant catholics, why our traditions are evil, and which particular traditions you are referring to.
 
ralphinal said:
For the record, having no God before God includes graven images.

It also includes worshipping money

Or sex

Or anything else we put before God.
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If that is what it means then why does it not say that?
looks to me like you are adding to the “Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments”
Such is the traditions of men, adding and taking away.

Making and placing images in your church is clearly not what God said.
The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image. What does that mean the move movement toward the image does not make it an image?? Isn’t that like saying moving toward my car does not make it a car? The action toward, does not change the fact its a car or an image.

“quote” (but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate). clearly states that the image leads. It also clearly places something between man and God, just as you also place Mary between man and God. The RCC insist at every turn, something other than Jesus interceding for themselves.

1 Tim 2-5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
In this passage there is no room for the Pope or Mary or any image.

Catechism of the Catholic Church # 2132
Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is

EX 20-4
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
 
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