Why won't God regenerate limbs?

  • Thread starter Thread starter YHWH_Christ
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Why this, Why that…

Why don’t we have wings… Why can’t we breathe under water…

_
 
OddBird said:
One of my parents’ friend is on the team, and he is a staunch atheist.
Click to expand...
Side question for you: what is your experience talking to atheists? mine is that it is a complete waste of time, as nothing will convince them.
 
jan10000 said:
I read several articles on this story, and the biggest hole is that NO ONE claims to have seen either the amputation or the amputated leg.
Click to expand...
https://books.google.com/books?id=9mT57Wve0SMC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

In the list of witnesses and their accounts, on page 43, it records the testimony, under oath, of Juan de Estanga, a surgeon who performed the amputation. So, indeed, there is someone who said he saw the amputation… given that he was the one who amputated it.
 
Last edited:
I have never convinced an atheist of anything that I know of, and I don’t really try to. Whenever I talk with, in particular, close friends or family members who are atheists, I simply do my best to dispel myths about what and why I believe, and to be a good and articulate witness. Is it a waste of time ? I don’t know. Who knows what seed will unexpectedly grow and bear fruit - tomorrow or in twenty years or in the last moments of their life on this earth ?
 
Padre Pio was responsible for restoring an eyeball lost by a construction worker when an explosion blew rock into his face. The doctors at the hospital saw one eyeball completely missing, the other eye damaged. His head was wrapped up and the man explained that Padre Pio came to bless him and laid hands on him. They removed the bandages and the missing eye was completely restored and in working order.

You know what kind of faith we have? We don’t even trust God to put a quarter on the ground for us at some point in our day. We can’t even believe that God would do that.
 
For all those people who received a miraculous healing, it’s life changing.
Some people don’t want their lives changed.

Heaven is opened because of Jesus Christ. The best deal EVER.
 
jan10000 said:
They open the box where his amputated leg supposedly was, and, lo and behold, it is missing. And the ‘new, regrown’ leg is actually thee exact same one that supposedly was cut off.
Click to expand...
There are various miracles that on closer look are really illusions or magic tricks of some sort. I recently did a magic trick with an empty box on a flat table in front of all. I asked a volunteer (not a plant but a real volunteer) to pick a color for a butterfly. I then wave my hand and lift the cloth and the butterfly of the correct color is in the box visible to everyone. But it is not a miracle. It is a magic trick.
 
jan10000 said:
Exactly - only one person claims to have seen the actual amputated leg, the doctor that did it. You don;t think the doctor could have been paid off with the money made by the beggar? What is more probable
  • that a charlatan lied about an amputation to make a living as a beggar, paying off a doctor to make it look convincing, then got caught when he mistakenly slept in the wrong bedroom
OR
  • that an honest person had a a leg amputated, with only one witness, and buried the leg. Then, on the night same night he sleeps in the wrong bedroom, by some miracle the same amputated leg is teleported out of the buried box, healed and regenerated (but not fully, as past known scars were still present) and attached as if it had never been cut off in the first place. Instantly.
remember - the miracle is not that the leg regrew or regenerated; the miracle is that one night while the beggar was sleeping, the cut off leg disappeared from the buried box, and re-attached while he was sleeping. When people unexpectedly walked in on the sleeping beggar, lo and behold the leg was back.

I think even the most faithful person would admit a bit of skepticism, no?
Click to expand...
Having looked through the document more carefully, it turns out there were other testifiers in regards to having seen the amputation or the amputated leg. The link is here for those who may want to “follow along”:
https://books.google.com/books?id=9mT57Wve0SMC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

It’s a bit tricky to read through because it’s centuries-old Spanish (and while I’m competent in Spanish, I’m not fluent), but I still think I understand it well enough to represent it. The testimonies begin on page 43. Here I’ll only cover the people who actually saw the amputated leg or participated in the procedure:

Witness #1: Juan de Estanga, as already discussed. He was the primary surgeon of the operation, and performed some treatment afterwards. He attests to having done the surgery.

Witness #4: Pascual del Cacho, Presbítero Veedor (Priest Overseer) at the hospital. He did not witness the amputation surgery itself, but did testify to seeing Miguel Juan Pellicero (the person who lost the leg) in a bed in the hospital missing a leg, and to seeing the amputated leg itself.

Witness #5: Juan Lorenzo Garcia, “Mancebo Platicante de Cirujano”. My guess is that “Platicante” is either a typo or an archaic spelling for Practicante, which would mean “Young Practitioner of Surgery.” I’m not entirely sure what this means, but it’s probably the 17th century version of a resident doctor. Well, whatever it is, he testified to being present and aiding in the surgery. He also was the one who took the severed leg to the cemetery to be buried.

Witness #7: Diego Millaruelo, Maestro en Cirugía (Master of Surgery), another surgeon who participated in the amputation.

So that’s four people who testified under oath to seeing the amputated leg, three of which were participants (and therefore, obviously witnesses) to the surgery itself.
 
Last edited:
jan10000 said:
For the above reasons, I do not consider myself an atheist. Yet.
Click to expand...
Good for you. It is a serious mistake to reject God. To me, there are other areas than the 3 you mention where atheism is lacking/illogical, but that is off-topic here.
 
jan10000 said:
That being said, after watching numerous debates between great theists, Christians, and atheists, and reading many books on the topic - honestly, the atheists win almost every time.
Click to expand...
What are you watching and reading? 🧐 I’ll presume you don’t mean any of the “New Atheists.” Off-topic here, but feel free to start a new thread or two. Honestly, atheists — when simply arguing for atheism — are almost entirely unimpressive in my experience. They just are. Graham Oppy was promising, but he also tends to just make assertions. It always seems to end with some brute fact or several. Anyway, when I read what you wrote here it looks like confirmation bias. One good point Oppy made in a discussion I watched recently is that beliefs almost always get in the way of arguments, on both sides.
 
Last edited:
Years ago, I heard the same statement from a Jewish Doctor from New York, who was shown pictures of the crutches and wheel chairs left at St Anne De Beaupres in Montreal.

He said, " when you see prosthetics left there, let me know.".

He had a point, but it’s a question I have no answer for and trying to tap dance around it, does no good.
 
jan10000 said:
The atheists never really argue for anything, but rather they argue against the above three.
Click to expand...
Exactly, something can give you the illusion of strength when it is always on the attack, when the truth is, it isn’t really “something” at all. There is nothing there but critique and suggestion. Like Mephistopheles in Faust.
 
Forget about healing amputees, why doesn’t God prove His existence by say causing the dome of the US Capitol building to levitate, spin 360 degrees and then settle back into place upside down. After that, He could write “I AM” in really really big letters across the sky. That’d be pretty darn spectacular and would surely convince even the most hardened atheist right?

Well, no. Any miracle, even healing of an amputee, or the levitation of the Capitol Dome will always be ambiguous to some extent. There’ll always be someone who claimed to have seen it and others who didn’t; there’ll be those who claim that the doctors or other experts were bribed or the testimony was faked. Even those who see and believe from seeing will, eventually pass on leaving only hearsay accounts.

Asking for a sign doesn’t really take us very far because our faith needs to be based on more than just signs and wonders; otherwise, it’ll be lacking in firm foundation - we’ll only believe because of what we saw but faith is the belief in things unseen. If anything, someone who believes without having had the benefit of a miracle is a more powerful example of faith.
 
Don’t forget “mass hallucination” e.g. Miracle of the Sun at Fatima. There’s even film of the Zeitoun appearance that is somehow obviously fake. That was when we could still reasonably trust film, now it’s of course going to be photo-shopped, edited “fake news.”
 
Last edited:
Show me an atheist faith healer…

Why won’t God regenerate limbs?

He will! AYKM?

He will regenerate our entire being, body, mind and soul. And there’s the rub. We must be faithful and patient.

The worldly want it all and they want it NOW. Since that fails, they often become embittered and are more than willing to share their misery. No thanks!

Encounters with those who demonstrate Christian joy only deepens their misery, hence many are so angry. Let them be envious of joy!
 
I started typing a response but it’s too far afield for a discussion about miraculous limb regrowth; if there is some “good philosophical guidance” you are considering that challenges faith or if you want to discuss the imposition of bylaws based on traditional beliefs (let’s agree to auto-disqualify deliberately contrived ridicule like the FSM), we can move it to a new thread.
 
jan10000 said:
blood transfusions (ie, Mormons).
Click to expand...
Quick correction…those are Jehovah Witnesses.

Long ago I came to the conclusion that most people of faith just either have it…with no reasons needed, or they have had some type of personal experience of the divine…a prayer answered, a healing or just feeling a presence. I’ve had none of these and was unable to just have faith. To those that had a miracle happen in their life or accept the claims of others and it enhances or brings them to faith is wonderful for them. I haven’t experienced anything that leads me to accept that it happens. It isn’t that limbs aren’t regrowing everywhere. It’s that today, with cameras and advanced medicine, none are ever regrown. I’ve never had a prayer answered that I needed answered. I’ve never witnessed a miracle and I’ve never had any experience of God. I’m open to it, it just hasn’t happened. And all I can conclude is that I am incapable of believing, try as I did.

I accepted it. I’m not bitter nor unhappy. Life is pretty durn good. I’m not in anguish over not living forever or seeing loved ones again. This life is it for me. I’m not even sure I’d want to live forever…that’s an awfully long time!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top