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Jimmy_B
Guest
Thanks
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bengal_fan
Guest
not entirely. the assumption of mary is not in the gospels and that is one of the mysteries to focus on is it not?
the consistent “prayer” of the gospels is “have mercy on me, oh God, a sinner.” there are elements of the gospel in the rosary though, i do agree in part.
ummm, through personal experience and through knowing others who have shared that experience. the same way you cite how you know it doesn’t distract. that’s why i said “some” because i try not to speak in generalities.
good. i am glad. i have seen it though. again, why i said “some”.
that is awesome for them.
so is selling all of your possessions and giving the money to the poor. do you do that as well? and it is not 100% biblical. it is 100% not in conflict with the bible. there is a difference.
most of the rosary is based on the gospels. you are correct about the rosary’s purpose but that is not how it always plays out in everyone’s life.
my wife absolutely loves mushrooms. we are vegetarians and mushrooms are a great substitute for meat in many things (especially portobello). when she eats them, it makes her happy because she enjoys the taste of them so much.
i, however, am allergic to mushrooms. nothing that would kill me, but when i eat them i end up on the toilet for hours with stuff shooting out of both ends (i am holding a bucket at the same time… is this too much info??). it makes it hard with some vegetarian meals because they have mushrooms in them so i don’t get to experience everything about being a vegetarian. but i still reap the health benefits of this lifestyle even though i don’t do the whole mushroom thing.
my wife and i have different experiences with mushrooms just like you and i have different experiences with the rosary. there are parts of it that don’t sit right with me and so i don’t do it. there are plenty of parts of the gospel that i just can’t do and i thank God there are those who are gifted to be able to do them (like selling everything and giving to the poor).
i just wish people could get out of their “my way is the best way” mentality.
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b_justb
Guest
I am a huge fan of the Rosary. I prayed the Rosary before I became Catholic, before I decided to join the Church.
I think it’s important to know that to be a Catholic one never has to pray the Rosary. If that is the case, then why not follow St. Paul’s advice above?
If you pray the Rosary and are blessed by it - that is great!
If you’re not in a place to be able to do that right now, or even in the foreseeable future, but still cultivate prayer in your life - that is great!
Please stop putting stumbling blocks on the paths of our brothers and sisters.
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reteeks21
Guest
Not trying to say you are wrong, but could you tell me where in the Gospels examples of praying the form that the Rosary takes is located? I think any prayer that helps get you in the right frame of mind is good (by that I mean a prayer where you “connect” with Christ), so, again, I see nothing wrong with the Rosary.Hello bengal-fan,
The Rosary is a prayer of the Gospels.
How do you know if the Rosary “distracts some from Jesus”?
I have been a Roman Catholic my entire life and I come from a long line of Catholics and I have never seen what you describe. I fact, I have seen the opposite. People I know and have met who regularly pray the Rosary are very focused on Jesus and it is in part because they do practice this Catholic devotion. The Rosary is 100% Christian and 100% Biblical. You might want to go back and read might posts…The Rosary is based on the Gospels and the purpose of the Rosary is to stay focused on Jesus Christ.
Peace
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
flameburns623;3508863:
Hello flameburns623,In the sense you are speaking of ‘death’ even Julius Caesar isn’t ‘dead’: he may be suffering in Hell, or by the grace of God, enduring purification in Purgatory, but he is not ‘dead’ in the sense of being utterly extinct and void of any consciousness whatsoever. The same would be true of any person who has passed from this mortal coil into the Afterlife.
When Scripture speaks of death, however, it most commonly uses the ordinary sense of that word. Remember that King Saul sinned by summoning up the soul of a righteous departed person, the prophet Samuel. There was no ‘dispensation’ granted to Saul because Samuel was ‘not really dead’. QUOTE]
Actually in the sense I’m speaking of it’s the “eternal life” that can only be that which is enjoyed with God:getholy: . Not the spirits of those in hell or as I would think it those in “eternal death”. So no it’s not the same of any person who’s died a mortal death.
And to compare what Saul did to a Catholic asking Mary or a Saint to pray for us is quite unfair. Catholic’s don’t go to mediums or witch doctors to summon up spirits of the dead to help them win a war, which is what Saul did. Catholics also consider this sinful.
SD
What you are describing here falls under the Christian belief in the Communion of the Saints. A belief which is in the Creed.
The belief in the Communion of Saints is a Christian belief that goes back to the first centuries of Christianity, prior to the formation of the Bible and before the books of the Bible were written. We know this because this belief is clearly described in the Bible. This belief existed first and then the books of the Bible documented it…
Early Christians would meet at the gravesites of the early martyrs and Saints to pray for their intercession, on the anniversary of their martyrdom. Because of bad personal interpretation of the Bible, some modern Christian denominations have rejected this Christian belief, a belief that continues in Catholicism today,
This is a break from early Christianity and a case where others have removed an aspect of Christianity. This is not something new that the Catholic Church added. Your disagreement here is not with me, it is with the Bible and with many centuries of Christianity. It is a rejection of an early Christian belief.
Peace.
J
justasking4
Guest
No. Jesus never prayed to Mary but only to the Father.
Did Muhammad ever pray to Jesus?
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello reteeks21,
**The Rosary, as we know it today, started in the early 1200’s and Pope John Paul II approved the forth Mystery; the Luminous Mysteries. They are all based on the Gospels. If you go back and read my posts were I provided the four Mysteries of the Rosary (with Bible verses) and the bases for the prayers, which are recited when the Rosary is prayed, it is obvious that the purpose of the Rosary is to focus on Jesus. **
**I haven’t counted the number of actual verses involved in the Rosary and the verses associated with the prayers, which are recited when praying the Rosary but it is a big “chunk” of the New Testament. Go back and look and you will see that; to pray the Rosary, is to reflect of Jesus Christ and on His life. That is why it is nonsensical for the OP to argue that something that is based on the Gospels and Christ’s life… is a “distraction”. **
I think you would be hard pressed to find a Christian, of any denomination, who actually thinks about and reflects on, Christ’s life and all of the aspects of His life, more than a Catholic who recites the Rosary daily and attends Mass regularly. Many Catholics, who recite the Rosary regularly, attend Mass every day of the year; I know both of my Grandmothers did. The Rosary puts Christ into your life daily.
The Catholic phrase, “The Family That Prays Together, Stays together”, comes from a time when Catholic families would recite the Rosary and pray to God together every night. Don’t forget, we were told to pray often and the prayer that Jesus gave us, is the Our Father (Lord’s Prayer) which is recited five times whenever the Rosary is prayed.
**Peace
**
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bengal_fan
Guest
it is not nonsensical if that is what has ACTUALLY happened. just because it doesn’t fit with your experience doesn’t mean it is not true or hasn’t been experienced differently by some one else. logic dictates that we can argue theology all we want, but you cannot deny some one’s personal experience story. and not all of the rosary is found in the gospels. according to YOUR interpretation it might be, but not everyone else’s. it is nonsensical to think that everyone should experience everything the same way.
another sweeping statement. there are plenty of Christians of non-catholic denominations who reflect and meditate on Christ’s life (yes, EVERY aspect) just as much or even more than some of these catholics who pray the rosary every day. i think you need to stop assuming what is in other people’s hearts. it breaks down your argument severely.
really, that is a catholic phrase??
can you tell me who coined it? i have always heard it within protestant circles and the only catholics i have heard say it are protestant converts. maybe i am mistaken, so please tell me where this phrase was coined and by whom?
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Helo bengal–fan, here you go…really, that is a catholic phrase??
can you tell me who coined it? i have always heard it within protestant circles and the only catholics i have heard say it are protestant converts. maybe i am mistaken, so please tell me where this phrase was coined and by whom?
http://www.crosssignals.com/images/FrPayton.jpg
Father Patrick Peyton
**
and here and vdeo- here**
Peace
C
Ceil-1
Guest
I must agree that, of those I know for certain pray the Rosary all have a close relationship with the Lord. Among those who don’t, some do and some do not. Of course only God knows the heart, but, among the lukewarm Catholics, and in particular, lukewarm priests I have met (and they are many) they do not pray the Rosary.
I know my relationship to the Lord has increased 100-fold since I have started to pray it. It doesn’t hurt to know my godmother prayed for my salvation using the Rosary, either. Jesus is the goal, but Mary is the conduit and advocate.
Don’t knock it 'til you try it.
I know my relationship to the Lord has increased 100-fold since I have started to pray it. It doesn’t hurt to know my godmother prayed for my salvation using the Rosary, either. Jesus is the goal, but Mary is the conduit and advocate.
Don’t knock it 'til you try it.
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bengal_fan
Guest
i stand corrected!Helo bengal–fan, here you go…
http://www.crosssignals.com/images/FrPayton.jpg
Father Patrick Peyton
Peace
i will say though, that it is not a uniquely catholic phrase even though a (what seems to be amazing) catholic priest said it. and he was speaking of the rosary. but that doesn’t mean that is the only prayer that will keep a family together.
he does seem to be quite a guy though. i liked what i have read so far about him and his mission.
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bengal_fan
Guest
i have never knocked it, just stated that not everyone’s experience with the rosary is the same. i have grown far more in my relationship with God and been able to focus more on the entirety of Christ’s life through the simple orthodox prayer we have mentioned earlier in this thread than in my times praying the rosary. the main reason is that i am distracted by mary at times and the focus on her intercession (which i believe in) and the prayers for myself as opposed to really focusing on the nature and actions of God by tossing out the stuff having to do with me and giving God the reigns. i am not saying those who pray the rosary don’t have this experience that i have with the chokti, i am saying that my experience with the rosary is different than yours. nothing wrong with that.Don’t knock it 'til you try it.
L
LilyM
Guest
OK, so are you saying that if Muhammad didn’t command the use of the misbaha or tasbeeh prayer beads then it’s wrong? Did he even command the recitation of the 99 Names of Allah? Are you condemning the many faithful Muslims who use the prayer beads while they do so?
How is using them to keep track as one recites the 99 Names of Allah any different from simply saying them without the beads (if one has a good enough memory to do so?) The fact is lots of people DON’T have good memories can CAN’T pray without these sort of beads to help them do so. Would you rather they made a mess of their prayers?
For that matter, Muhammad didn’t instruct or command the use of a computer either, but you’re using one - for shame! :tsktsk:
Jesus DID, as we have said, instruct us to pray the Our Father prayer which is a central part of the Rosary, and God’s own angel Gabriel (Jibreel) said the words of at least the first half of the other central prayer, the ‘Hail Mary’, to Mariam mother of Isa. If God’s own angel said it to her, it cannot be wrong for us to say, surely.
G
guanophore
Guest
answers.com/topic/the-family-that-prays-together-stays-togetherreally, that is a catholic phrase??
can you tell me who coined it? i have always heard it within protestant circles and the only catholics i have heard say it are protestant converts. maybe i am mistaken, so please tell me where this phrase was coined and by whom?
M
Mystic_of_God
Guest
Some protestants do recite the Rosary.
What I REALLY don’t understand is why more protestants don’t use the Stations of the Cross.
What I REALLY don’t understand is why more protestants don’t use the Stations of the Cross.
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reteeks21
Guest
Actually, in many of them we do. Our stained glass windows contain them, and we do meditate on the passion and last day(s) of Christ quite often. True, it may not resemble the Catholic tradtion, but it is done.
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lampstand
Guest
I’m sure this has been said on this thread, but the Anglicans do use a form of the rosary, though it’s not exactly the same as the Catholic; and the Orthodox do have the Jesus Prayer tradition, so there are a few other churches which have a somewhat similar way of prayer. It’s important to note that when Catholics pray the rosary, with its large number of Hail Marys, some people think we are “praying to Mary.” No, we are not. What we do at the end of the prayer is ask her to pray for us. What we do at the beginning is repeat the words of the angel Gabriel-- that is, we announce the coming of Christ. And so we remind ourselves to welcome Christ again and again, to assent to the will of God, as Mary did. Christ lived with his family while he was on Earth, so we remember his family in our prayers, and treat them as our own. Just my thoughts on it.
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reteeks21
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mangy_dog
Guest
Because it seems “too” catholic to them??
Because they don’t realize how biblical it is?
Because its “not in the bible”?
I could probably (or someone could probably) do a David Letterman top 10 reasons why protestants don’t pray the rosary…ending with the number one reason as Ignorance.
Take you pick.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
F
flameburns623
Guest
For the record:
I DO pray the Rosary every day. Have been doing since the start of Lent this year. Also the Divine Mercy Chaplet and (during Lent only, and only about once per week on Fridays) the Stations of the Cross. Prior to that, was doing some of these on-again, off-again.
The question I would have is, hey Jimmy: how come you don’t pray the Morning or Evening Prayer from the Book of Common Prayer?:newidea:
commonprayer.org/offices.cfm
Just kidding. Look there are a lot of forms of spirituality out there. About 15 years ago or a little longer I came across a number of Protestant Christians who were recommending that Protestants learn to pray the Psalms, as well as other parts of Scripture. Oddly enough, that is something that Catholics had been doing since the dawn of monasticism, and in fact was something that Jews probably have been doing since before the time of Christ.
I tried following those recommendations but found that any attempt to develop a systematic prayer life led to my accumulating a rather complicated set of books. After all I also wanted to read my Bible daily in a systematic fashion, and I wanted to do some devotional reading from something like Surgeon’s Morning and Evening, and I wanted to pray for missionaries in the 10/40 zones of the world (areas of the world least-evangelized by any Christian body, where the total number of Christians is sometimes as few as a few dozen or a few hundreds among millions of people–see the following: joshuaproject.net/10-40-window.php), and I wanted to pray for my pastor and for Christians generally, and I wanted to pray for my country and for all peoples of the world, etcetera and so forth.
There are ‘prayer guides’ for each of these, some as short as a few pages and some as long as a very large book. But if you juggled all of them together, you ended up with a rather substantial library of materials.
When I discovered the Book of Common Prayer, I found it met all of my needs for praying for a diverse variety of people and issues. (Catholics would find the same thing in something like the Breviary or the Shorter Christian Prayer). So the BCP has become my staple prayer system and it is how I came to be an Episcopalian in the Evangelical/conservative mode.
The only own side of the BCP is that you are praying from a book. You can’t do it while driving, you can’t do it while standing around waiting. I’m a security officer, and I stand around observing things for hours on end. I have lots of time on my hand. I can’t walk around with a Prayerbook in my hands–it would look weird and would distract me from my duties. BUT I can carry around a rosary, a mini-rosary, or a rosary ring and recite the Rosary to myself. I can do the Stations of the Cross–I practically have them memorized now. Etcetera. So I redeem my time while at work, partly by the continual effort to memorize Scripture, but also by periodically praying.
A bit off-topic, but it gives some idea of why some Protestants engage in a ‘Catholic’ practice such as praying the Rosary.
I DO pray the Rosary every day. Have been doing since the start of Lent this year. Also the Divine Mercy Chaplet and (during Lent only, and only about once per week on Fridays) the Stations of the Cross. Prior to that, was doing some of these on-again, off-again.
The question I would have is, hey Jimmy: how come you don’t pray the Morning or Evening Prayer from the Book of Common Prayer?:newidea:
commonprayer.org/offices.cfm
Just kidding. Look there are a lot of forms of spirituality out there. About 15 years ago or a little longer I came across a number of Protestant Christians who were recommending that Protestants learn to pray the Psalms, as well as other parts of Scripture. Oddly enough, that is something that Catholics had been doing since the dawn of monasticism, and in fact was something that Jews probably have been doing since before the time of Christ.
I tried following those recommendations but found that any attempt to develop a systematic prayer life led to my accumulating a rather complicated set of books. After all I also wanted to read my Bible daily in a systematic fashion, and I wanted to do some devotional reading from something like Surgeon’s Morning and Evening, and I wanted to pray for missionaries in the 10/40 zones of the world (areas of the world least-evangelized by any Christian body, where the total number of Christians is sometimes as few as a few dozen or a few hundreds among millions of people–see the following: joshuaproject.net/10-40-window.php), and I wanted to pray for my pastor and for Christians generally, and I wanted to pray for my country and for all peoples of the world, etcetera and so forth.
There are ‘prayer guides’ for each of these, some as short as a few pages and some as long as a very large book. But if you juggled all of them together, you ended up with a rather substantial library of materials.
When I discovered the Book of Common Prayer, I found it met all of my needs for praying for a diverse variety of people and issues. (Catholics would find the same thing in something like the Breviary or the Shorter Christian Prayer). So the BCP has become my staple prayer system and it is how I came to be an Episcopalian in the Evangelical/conservative mode.
The only own side of the BCP is that you are praying from a book. You can’t do it while driving, you can’t do it while standing around waiting. I’m a security officer, and I stand around observing things for hours on end. I have lots of time on my hand. I can’t walk around with a Prayerbook in my hands–it would look weird and would distract me from my duties. BUT I can carry around a rosary, a mini-rosary, or a rosary ring and recite the Rosary to myself. I can do the Stations of the Cross–I practically have them memorized now. Etcetera. So I redeem my time while at work, partly by the continual effort to memorize Scripture, but also by periodically praying.
A bit off-topic, but it gives some idea of why some Protestants engage in a ‘Catholic’ practice such as praying the Rosary.
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