Why won't non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?

[selah603]

Israel.

Whenever I see this argument the first thought in my head is…

When did Satan ever rear against Mary and her other offspring (which is interesting because catholics believe she never had another child) and wage war?

We are brothers and sisters of Our Lord and Mary is our Mother. Therefore, it seems that we would be her offspring.

 

[Ronald_E]

Jimmy_B:
Great job Jimmy

 

[selah603]

Thank you Jimmy B for showing the gospel connections of the mysteries of the Rosary. I personally appreicate it.

 

[Jimmy_B]

This is why I do not say the Rosary, at least not all of it. Does this mean Catholics are wrong and doomed? Nope, because you live in Christ and accept that we are saved through Grace. That is the important part.

Hello madabkr4tx,

Thank you for your comments.

The Hail Mary prayer consists of three parts.

The first, “Hail (Mary) full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women”, comes from the Gospel of Luke and embodies the words used by the Angel Gabriel in saluting the Blessed Virgin (Luke I: 28).

The second, “and blessed is the fruit of thy womb (Jesus)”, comes from the Gospel of Luke and is taken from the divinely inspired greeting of St. Elizabeth (Luke I: 42)

The third part is a petition, *“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen,” *

“Holy Mary, Mother of God” comes from the early Christian belief (first century) were Mary is known as “Theotokos” (in Greek) or “Mother of God”. This belief comes from Scripture and was officially defined by the Early Church in Ecumenical Councils (1st- 4th Century AD).

The part, “*pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen,” is *rooted in the ancient Christian (Catholic) belief in the Communion of Saints, which is professed in the Creed and the Christian (Catholic) belief in Intercessory Prayer.

These two beliefs are biblically based and precede any “Protestant Movement”. They were later, officially defined by the Church during Christian (Catholic) Ecumenical Councils.

The “Catechism of the Council of Trent” (1545-1563), the Church’s 19 Ecumenical Council, formally defined this portion of the prayer. So, it was actually framed by the Early Church itself.

So, then, the ‘Hail Mary’ is partly taken from Scripture and partly added by the Catholic Church. The part added by the Church is biblically and historically based and rooted in early Christian beliefs.

Council of Trent

The nineteenth ecumenical council opened at Trent on 13 December 1545, and closed there on 4 December 1563. Its main object was the definitive determination of the doctrines of the Church in answer to the heresies of the Protestants; a further object was the execution of a thorough reform of the inner life of the Church by removing the numerous abuses that had developed in it.

Source - Catholic Encyclopedia

Note: Martin Luther wrote his 95 Theses in 1517 and he died in 1546

Note: Long before Martin Luther and the “Protestant Movement”, reform within the Catholic Church was well underway and by the 17 Ecumenical Council, the Council of Basle (1431-1439), “Quarrels with the Pope” and the “reform of the Church” were addressed, among other issues affecting the Church at that time.

Source - Catholic Encyclopedia

madabkr4tx, as for your comment , where you state the are “ s**aved through Grace”, I assume that you are referring to the errant Protestant belief that we are “Saved by Grace Alone”.

If so, then that is separate discussion all together. This arrant Protestant belief is thoroughly addressed here at CAF, at the Home Page and on other threads.

Peace,

 

[Good_Fella]

I have asked this question many times “How do you know that you aren’t being decieved into thinking there is something special about the rosary?”

By the many graces I have received in my Christian life through the faithful saying of the Rosary: humility, charity, poverty of spirit, self-sacrifice, apostolic zeal, repentance, purity of heart, mortification, moral courage, patience, fortitude, perseverance, love of God, faith, hope, wisdom, counsel, and understanding.

But he knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste and a house will fall against house. And* if Satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand?** "*
Luke 11, 17-18

If it isn’t by Satan that we drive out the demons, who are oppressing our lives, with the help of divine grace, then we can be sure that we haven’t been deceived by him to say the Rosary.

Where in the Bible is the rosary mentioned? If it is not found in the Bible then how do we know that to use it will be pleasing to God? If the bible is silent on a subject then we must be as well or be in danger of adding to the Word of God.

Where in Scripture is it written either explicitly or implicitly that we are saved by faith and Scripture alone? Nowhere. But the scriptures do tell us that we are saved by grace which we may receive through faithful prayer.

“If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.”
John 14, 14

And we have this confidence in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours.
1 John 5, 14-15

Have no anxiety at all, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving,* make your requests known to God**. Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.*
Philippians 4, 16-17

When we ask our Blessed Mother to “pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death,” we are beseeching her to obtain for us the graces necessary for our salvation. We are in fact confidently asking our Lord to do something for us in our spiritual lives by the help of the Holy Spirit through the prayerful intercession of Mary our mother. For we are asking her to join us in our petitions which are heard by her divine Son who in turn presents them to the Father from whom divine grace originates. When Paul asked others to pray for him, his gesture in itself was a type of direct prayer to God who hears our petitions and knows our needs even before we acknowledge them in his presence either alone or in union with the Christian community. When we ask our Blessed Mother to help obtain for us the grace of final perseverance, for instance, we are essentially making known to God our request that he send the Holy Spirit in our lives to do something for us, that is strengthen us to persevere to the end. Prayer does become more powerful against the forces of evil and more pleasing to God where two or three are gathered in His name.

“For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
Matthew 18, 20

“First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, thanksgivings, be offered for everyone. This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2, 1-4

With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit. To that end* be watchful with all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones and also for me**, that speech may be given me to open my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel for which I am an ambassador in chains, so that I may have the courage to speak as I must.*
Ephesians 6, 18-20

Adding to God’s Word is condemned in the Bible.

And so is removing God’s Word.

Paul has exhorted us to pray for each other and to ask each other for our prayers so that we may obtain the graces we need for our salvation. The faithful members of Christ’s mystical body include both the righteous on earth and the departed saints in heaven who have gone before us. Both the living and the faithful departed, who are more alive in Christ than we are having been made perfect, form one family of God.

“For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family (“God’s whole family”) in heaven and on earth is named”
Ephesians 3, 14-15

But not the High Priest (Jesus Christ) alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels…and also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep.
Origen, ‘On Prayer ll’ {A.D. 233}

Remember me, you heirs of God, you brethren of Christ; supplicate the Savior earnestly for me, that I may be freed through Christ from him (Satan) that fights against me day by day.
Ephraem of Syria, ‘De Timore, Anim. in fin.’ {A.D. 370}

Mother of God, listen to my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger.
Sub Tuum Praesidium {c.A.D. 250}

Pax Christi :harp:

 

[humble_in_doubt]

‘Good Fellas’ is one of my favorite gangster films.

Non-Christian critics argue that the Church incorporated the dogma of the resurrection of Christ by assimilating the myths of the pagan mystery religions. However, there are primitive tribes deep in the heart of Africa which believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead in some shape or form without ever having made contact with other more advanced civilizations. It’s more a matter of a parallel development of religious experience, however dissimilar in certain aspects, among different religious peoples than an assimiliation of the beliefs of one group by another through direct contact with each other. Even if there had never been any devotion to Isis in ancient Egypt, the early Christians would still have invoked Mary as the Mother of God.

You might want to read Eric Voegelin’s ‘Order and History’ (4 Vols).

PAX :harp:

I didn’t stop being Catholic necessarily because of parallels to earlier pagan mythology (the fact is most of the atheists who assert these parallels exist use skewed and sometimes false facts to bolster their position). There’s as much evidence to suggest Christian mythology was intertwined into pagan mythology (even in cases where the pagan myths predated Christianity).

My doubt is all together unrelated to trying to prove or disprove things that occurred over 2,000 years ago. I know what religion is … it’s the result of man’s awe of the universe we live in & even our own accomplishments. It’s also a result of our natural fear of death, so on and so forth. If there were this god you proclaim then where is he? Why is it that in all religions the gods they worship have always restricted their appearances on earth to ancient men thousands of years ago?

When you add up the facts it becomes apparent that religion is simply a collection of old folklore and foolish myths. It’s great when your a kid (like Santa Clause and the tooth fairy); but come on, we’re adults aren’t we?

I know the religious will say how sad it must be to be me (or whatever). Frankly, I’m quite happy and well adjusted (I guess that’s why I don’t need an invisible friend who tells me that I’m such a horrible sinner he had to incarnate himself into man and come down to earth on a suicide mission to save my sorry butt). Talking snakes, little angels flying around protecting us (or I suppose hurting us), etc. etc.

For these foolish myths millions (perhaps billions) of people run around this world hating each other. The Muslims hate the Christians, Catholics and Protestants at least dislike each other, everyone thinks of course their church is “the” church, bla bla bla.

Well … you guys have fun. I guess I’ll just keep on being a heathen & a heretic.

Also, no disrespect buddy … but I probably won’t read a book that tries to tell me why I should believe in talking snakes, women built out of clay, flying angels, etc. Not that I don’t appreciate a good fiction, but mythology isn’t really my thing. I, like you, enjoy a great mob book (like a good Mario Puzo) or something along those lines. If I need to read dry boring stuff, I only do it to advance my career or learn something (but something that really exists). I learned enough fairy tales growing up as a Catholic, studying theology in Catholic college, etc.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I have asked this question many times “How do you know that you aren’t being decieved into thinking there is something special about the rosary?”

Hello DLClark,

That’s easy…The Rosary comes from the Bible and is a prayer of the Gospels.



Let me start by reminding those here, who might not be familiar with Catholicism. The Catholic Church is centered on Christ and everything in the Catholic Faith, including the Holy Rosary points us to Him.

Additionally, the Rosary is a powerful prayer but just one small aspect of Catholicism, a Christian devotion, among many devotionals.

One who doesn’t like the Rosary, either dislikes the Gospels or don’t know about how this Christian devotion is practice.

Reading some of these posts here, one would think that all Catholics did on Sunday was get together, pray to Mary, and recite the Rosary and that’s just crazy.

The Rosary is a powerful prayer because it is a Scriptura prayer, taken right from the Bible, it is a prayer of the Gospels’ and very biblically based. It is based on Christ and various aspects of His life.

The Catholic Mass is centered on Christ, His life, death and resurrection, “All praise and glory and honor are His forever.” Catholics go to Mass to worship on honor Jesus Christ. The Catholic Mass is the Holy Eucharist, the Liturgy of the Word (Holy Scripture) and the Homily (Sermon). It is reciting the Creed, praying the Our Father, and singing hymns to our Lord. It is praying for others and sharing His love, peace and much more.

The ways in which Catholics worship God today, and many of the Catholic devotions practiced today, go all the way back to the Apostles, to the first century and to Christ and Christianity.

Catholicism is the Universal Church, the Full Deposit of Faith, the Magisterium, the Bible (Holy Scripture), religious education, devotionals, religious orders, Sacramental’s and Sacraments, Holy Tradition / Christian history, Christian Charity, Christian love and Christian forgiveness. The Catholic Church is the Seven Holy Sacraments, our Pope, Bishops, priest, nuns, religious instructors, apologists, ordinary ministers, deacons and many other faithful Catholics.

Why it is that so many Protestants seem to focus on Mary and/or the Rosary?

Is it because they really don’t know anything about the Rosary and the Catholic Church, or is it because some want to minimized Mary, the Mother of God, and confuse people about Catholicism to undermine Christ and His Church? Is that it? What’s the answer?

What is it exactly, about the Rosary that you find objectionable or out of line with Christian beliefs and/or inconsistent with Holy Scripture?

What makes you think that you are right and the all of the billions of Catholics worldwide, in the last several hundred years are wrong?

If you are basing your personal opinions here on your own interpretations of the Bible, let me remind you that the Bible is a Catholic book, put together, translated, approved, protected, preserved and passed down by Catholics and for Catholic. Additionaly, during the first 1500 hundred years of Christianity, if you were a Christian, you were a Catholic Christian. The Rosary has been around longer that Protestantism.

Here at CAF, you will find a brief history of the Rosary.

I am looking forward to your response.

Peace

 

[Ronald_E]

I didn’t stop being Catholic necessarily because of parallels to earlier pagan mythology (the fact is most of the atheists who assert these parallels exist use skewed and sometimes false facts to bolster their position). There’s as much evidence to suggest Christian mythology was intertwined into pagan mythology (even in cases where the pagan myths predated Christianity).

My doubt is all together unrelated to trying to prove or disprove things that occurred over 2,000 years ago. I know what religion is … it’s the result of man’s awe of the universe we live in & even our own accomplishments. It’s also a result of our natural fear of death, so on and so forth. If there were this god you proclaim then where is he? Why is it that in all religions the gods they worship have always restricted their appearances on earth to ancient men thousands of years ago?

When you add up the facts it becomes apparent that religion is simply a collection of old folklore and foolish myths. It’s great when your a kid (like Santa Clause and the tooth fairy); but come on, we’re adults aren’t we?

I know the religious will say how sad it must be to be me (or whatever). Frankly, I’m quite happy and well adjusted (I guess that’s why I don’t need an invisible friend who tells me that I’m such a horrible sinner he had to incarnate himself into man and come down to earth on a suicide mission to save my sorry butt). Talking snakes, little angels flying around protecting us (or I suppose hurting us), etc. etc.

For these foolish myths millions (perhaps billions) of people run around this world hating each other. The Muslims hate the Christians, Catholics and Protestants at least dislike each other, everyone thinks of course their church is “the” church, bla bla bla.

Well … you guys have fun. I guess I’ll just keep on being a heathen & a heretic.

Also, no disrespect buddy … but I probably won’t read a book that tries to tell me why I should believe in talking snakes, women built out of clay, flying angels, etc. Not that I don’t appreciate a good fiction, but mythology isn’t really my thing. I, like you, enjoy a great mob book (like a good Mario Puzo) or something along those lines. If I need to read dry boring stuff, I only do it to advance my career or learn something (but something that really exists). I learned enough fairy tales growing up as a Catholic, studying theology in Catholic college, etc.

If I had that view of God and faith I would never had returned after being away 40 years.
Are you saying that you take everything in the bible literally?

 

[DLClark]

The Rosary is the prayer of the Gospels

The Prayer of the Rosary is a very powerful prayer, because it is the prayer of the Gospels. We are reminded to “Pray without ceasing”, 1Thessalonians 5:17 and that Jesus himself, “prayed a third time, saying the same thing again”, Matthew 26:44.

The Rosary predates any Protestant religion, with the first clear historical reference to the Rosary, dating back to 1221 and there is evidence that an ancient form of the Rosary existed in the 2nd century of Christianity, prior to the formation of the Bible.

For many centuries, the Rosary has been useful to Christians, to teach and know the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Early Christians had very limited access to the Bible until after the advent of the printing press in 1452, but they had the Rosary.

All Christians could benefit from the Rosary. Catholics, who recite the Rosary regularly, are familiar with the Gospels.

• ****The purpose of the Rosary is to reflect on the Gospels and on Jesus Christ. ****
• The Rosary is a devotional prayer that allows us to contemplate on the life of Christ Jesus.
• ****We grow closer to Jesus Christ in the Rosary, because the Rosary leads us to Jesus. ****
• The Rosary is 100% Biblical and 100% Christian.
  Why won’t non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where the rosary is mentioned?

 

[Ronald_E]

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where the rosary is mentioned?

If you want to know the history of the development of the Rosary you can look it up on wikipedia. If you want chapter and verse, well that would be something that was man made by those who put the Bible together. Now that I think about, it the Rosary is the Bible and all of the contents of the Bible. Chapter and verse are separate from the actual Bible and are only there because someone thought it would be easier to locate material.

However, it appears that when you use chapter and verse you are doing something that is contrary to God’s Word. God is not fragmented into chapter and verse and to use that method would be to take away something from God’s Word which we are not to do.

 

[Good_Fella]

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where the rosary is mentioned?

The Rosary doesn’t have to be explicitly mentioned in the Bible according to chapter and verse no more than the crucifix that is worn around the necks of Catholics and Protestants. Meanwhile can you cite the chapter and verse of any of the New Testament books which assure us that none of them are apochryphal?

 

[Jimmy_B]

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where the rosary is mentioned?

DLClark,

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where it states that there can exist more than one version of Christianity?

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where states that more than one Protestant, Christian denomination can exist?

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where it allows DLClark to personally interpret the Bible?

Can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where you or your particular denomination derives your authority? Is that in the Bible?

Is your denomination mentioned by name in the Bible?

Is Martin Luther or John Calvin or any other Protestant leader mention in the Bible?

What about “Protestantism” or the “Protestant Movement”, is that in the Bible?

Is the word “Protestant” in the Bible”?

Is the belief in “Bible Alone” in the Bible?

Is King James in the Bible?

Finally, can you show me chapter and verse from the Bible where it says that praying the Rosary is forbidden?

The Bible is Catholic Book, put together and approved by the Catholic Church and Catholic Popes, three to five hundred years after Christ’s crucifixion… and one thousand years before any Protestant movement.

If the Bible is the sole authority for Christians, then what did Christians do prior to the Bible?

First came Jesus (New Testament era), then the Catholic Church, then three to five hundred years later… the Bible, then a thousands years later, Protestants and now, today 36,000 different Protestant denominations, all with a different take on what the Bible “says” and what the definition of Christianity is. And that makes sense to you?

Thank you for your post and this opportunity. I cannot wait to see your response.

 

[1beleevr]

Jimmy B: It is easy to see, that you are very passionate about your religion. That was quite a post, and I believe that you summed up the catholic position for all of us! I know many catholics, who either out of obligation, or pride, fiercely defend their religion. I defend the Cross, and my Saviour! And as beautiful as the rosary is, it still comes down to a matter of choice; whether to recite it or not, whether to pray through Mary, or to confess your sins to Him, rather than a priest(1John 1:9) Is the rosary the same all the time, you don’t change up, regardless of whether there’s something different going on in your life? I don’t paint all catholics, with the same broad brush, because I have met some who are really coolI mean, I spoke to my neighbor, who did my tile work, for 2 hours, and had no idea he was a catholic. He enjoys and plays contemporary Christian music, has an easy-going, accepting nature, and is not pushy, when it comes to his religion. I hope that you judge each non-catholic on their own merits, and don’t put us under the same umbrella! Mary, mother of Jesus, was an extremely important part of the salvation plan, but as far as calling her the new Eve; that may be a stretch

 

[Dchsknight]

Unfortantly DLclark is someone whom Jesus warned about. He said “To those who do not Believe no explanation will suffice”

I am even dealing with this concept now. I am converting to Catholicism this Saturday at Easter Vigil, HOLY POOP CANT WAIT! And i have many friends that are fighting it and it quite frankly it is ridicules. You cant explain the Rosary to DLclark, because he wont understand, Because he chooses not to understand. When he stands before Christ as judge he will have to answer for that. He was told the truth and spit in the face of those who told him. He says he asks were the rosary is and many tell him. He ignores the right answers and then Asks again. People like Dlclark, To be quite honest and i am sorry if it offends but the truth needs to be said, have no faith. They have no Christ. They Crucify Christ Over and Over with their Doubt and as Paul said ‘Make Him out to be a liar’. IT is Sad that some one who Professes to Know Christ actually knows so little, not because no one did not tell him, but because he choose not to listen. That to me, is the gravest of sins. it is to be quite honest and In my opinion( and i mean my Opinion and if i am wrong God will Correct me) it is Blasphemy. The one sin that will never be forgiven, Not because God wont forgive it, because some one who does this sin, does not want to be Forgiven and wont seek and confess his heart to Christ. It is like saying to Jesus when he says “I loved you, DLclark, so much that i died for you. MY Blood is for you, the atoning sacrifice was made for you.” it is like turning to him and saying “I don’t care”.

DLclark, you have been told. You have been shown. What you do with that Truth is up to you…Becareful with what you do with the Truth of God, Because Denying the truth of God Damns.

 

[Good_Fella]

Mary… was an extremely important part of the salvation plan, but as far as calling her the new Eve; that may be a stretch

As the woman is of a man, even so is the man also of a woman.
1 Corinthians 11:12

I can understand your confusion. You fail to see that the New Eve is a biblical theme that runs from Genesis to Revelation. Israel and the Church are the corporate New Eve, whereas Mary is the personal New Eve (Rev 12). Let’s see how the Scriptures portray Mary as the new Eve in the spirit and the flesh.

Mary said, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.”
Luke 1, 38

The early Christians believed that as Adam had a female helper named Eve (“mother of all the living”), so Jesus, the new Adam (1 Cor 15: 45), had a woman, Mary the new Eve (“spiritual mother of all the living”), intimately associated with him in his work of redemption (Lk 2:35). The Church Fathers Justin Martyr (155) and Irenaeus (180) were the first among them to portray Mary as an antithetical type of Eve. Citing Luke’s gospel, they taught that Mary’s *Fiat * marks the reversal of the temptation of the first Eve in the Garden of Eden. Eve succumbed to the inticing lies of the serpent and thus disobeyed God and helped cause Adam’s fall from grace (Gen 3:1-7). At the Annunciation, Mary had faith in the words of the angel Gabriel, and so she obeyed God and became the mother of the Messiah who would save us from the sin of Adam by reconciling us with God. (1 Cor 15:22; Rom 5:19). As Eve was involved in mankind’s fall from grace by her disobedience, so Mary was involved in mankind’s redemption by her obedience to the word of God. As Eve became the mother for those of the old creation in Adam (2 Cor 5:17), so Mary became the mother for those of the new creation in Christ (Rom 8:29).

“Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
Luke 1, 42

Inspired by the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth refers to her cousin’s offspring Jesus as “the fruit of [her] womb.” Luke has her speak for the primitive Church which had by then traditionally regarded Mary as the new Eve (Jn 16:12-13). Eve encouraged Adam to partake of the forbidden fruit which resulted in the fall of mankind. Mary the new Eve gave mankind the redemptive fruit of her womb, Jesus, who restored us to God’s friendship by his death on the cross, saving us from sin and death.

Jesus said to her,“Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
John 2, 4-5

Jesus addresses his mother as “Woman” just as Adam had called his wife Eve (Gen 2:23). But the woman Jesus identifies his mother with is the one prophetically spoken of in the Protoevangelium (Gen 3:15), identifying himself as her “seed” which will crush the head of the serpent in association with her. Mary’s participation in the order of redemption as the new Eve is clearly revealed to us in the narrative of the wedding feast at Cana. By his mother’s solicitation, our Lord performs his first and most significant miracle which marks the inauguration of his salvific mission which proved to be victorious as prophesied in Genesis 3 (Rev 19:7).

He said to his mother, "Woman, behold your son." Then he said to the disciple, “Behold your mother.”
John 19, 26-27

John’s depiction of the crucifixion scene on Calvary resembles the Garden of Eden. There is a tree in the form of the cross (Gal 3:13), on which hangs the* fruit* of Mary’s womb; there is a man, Jesus (the new Adam), and a woman, Mary (the new Eve). And here again our Lord calls his mother “Woman” as he declares her to be the mother of his beloved disciple, who represents all those who bear witness to Jesus and observe his commandments (Rev 12:17). As Eve is the biological mother of all the living, so Mary is the spiritual mother of all those who have been reborn in the Spirit and made worthy of eternal life.

If Adam and Eve had not sinned against God, they would have transmitted spiritual life to their offspring together with physical life. Since God has ordained that human life should come from the union between a man and a woman, but Adam and Eve no longer had any spiritual life to give to us, he preordained that the restoration of spiritual life should come from an intimate association between a man and a woman, namely the new Adam and the new Eve.

Shout for joy, O Daughter Zion!, sing joyfully, O Israel! Be glad and exult with all your heart, O daughter Jerusalem! The Lord has removed the judgment against you, he has turned away your enemies; The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst, you have no further misfortune to fear. The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty savior.
Zephaniah 3, 14-15, 17

And coming to her he said, "Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
Luke 1, 28, 30-31

The first Christians perceived Mary prefigured in Daughter of Zion - the personification of Israel (the corporate new Eve) as God’s bride and giver of salvation, through whom the Messiah would come. Our Lady is seen as the personification of Zion (the personal new Eve) - the spouse of the Holy Spirit by whom the Word was made flesh.

PAX :harp:

 

[Jimmy_B]

Jimmy B: It is easy to see, that you are very passionate about your religion. That was quite a post, and I believe that you summed up the catholic position for all of us! I know many catholics, who either out of obligation, or pride, fiercely defend their religion. I defend the Cross, and my Saviour! And as beautiful as the rosary is, it still comes down to a matter of choice; whether to recite it or not, whether to pray through Mary, or to confess your sins to Him, rather than a priest(1John 1:9) Is the rosary the same all the time, you don’t change up, regardless of whether there’s something different going on in your life? I don’t paint all catholics, with the same broad brush, because I have met some who are really coolI mean, I spoke to my neighbor, who did my tile work, for 2 hours, and had no idea he was a catholic. He enjoys and plays contemporary Christian music, has an easy-going, accepting nature, and is not pushy, when it comes to his religion. I hope that you judge each non-catholic on their own merits, and don’t put us under the same umbrella! Mary, mother of Jesus, was an extremely important part of the salvation plan, but as far as calling her the new Eve; that may be a stretch

Hello 1beleevr,

Thank you for your post.

I noticed that you have referred to yourself, in your last post as being catholic (lower case “c”). I assume that is because you view Catholicism simply, in the “universal” sense. If this is the case, can you please explain your definition of “catholic”?

Additionally, just because I defend my Catholic faith here, on a Catholic apologetic web site, please don’t infer that I am somehow, one dimensional in nature, because I am not.

More over, I too, do defend the Cross and my Saviour. Just because, on this thread I happen to be defending one aspect of my faith, please don’t assume that I can’t or won’t defend other aspects.

Mary seems to come up quite a bit on these forums, because it appears that there are many Protestant, non-Catholic Christians that who, for some reason, have a problem with Mary. If you go back and look at the posts on this thread for example, you will see that it has been non-Catholic Christians who have been driving this discussion and keeping this thread alive.

Finally, I could be wrong but there seems to me to be a condescending tone to your post. What was the propose of your comment, where you wrote, “I defend the Cross, and my Saviour!”? Was this an attempt to insult me and challenge my Christianity, or was this a swipe at the Roman Catholic Church in general, implying that somehow, Catholicism is not as “Christian” as your denomination” or, as “Christian” as you think that you are?

Do you believe that the Roman Catholic Church is not focused or centered on Christ? Please explain yourself.

Thanks!

 

[1beleevr]

dchsknight: I think it’s pretty clear, that non-catholics do not believe in reciting the rosary for a myriad of reasons, the least of which is probably not needing to In John 16:23-24, He tells us that we can address Our Father(not the pope) directly, but to ask in Jesus’s name.And did you say that the rosary beads had a cross, with a dude on it? I sure hope that “dude” isn’t Jesus, because He was resurrected and ascended, no longer to be subjected to the Cross! And are you sure that no one tells you when you become catholic, that you have to recite the rosary? 42 years walking with Christ, and not one rosary recited; no need!

 

[Dchsknight]

dchsknight: I think it’s pretty clear, that non-catholics do not believe in reciting the rosary for a myriad of reasons, the least of which is probably not needing to In John 16:23-24, He tells us that we can address Our Father(not the pope) directly, but to ask in Jesus’s name.And did you say that the rosary beads had a cross, with a dude on it? I sure hope that “dude” isn’t Jesus, because He was resurrected and ascended, no longer to be subjected to the Cross! And are you sure that no one tells you when you become catholic, that you have to recite the rosary? 42 years walking with Christ, and not one rosary recited; no need!

Well i feel sorry for you…

 

[Julian_1066]

I feel sorry for him too.

I’m not a Catholic. I’m Anglican but have a devotion to the Virgin and I pray the Rosary daily because it keeps me centered on the Gospel message by meditating on the various aspects of Our Lord’s birth,His earthly mission, His message, and His passion, death on the cross, and His glorious resurrection.

A “dude” on the cross? That’s my Saviour and yours, mister, and it wouldn’t hurt to show respect, would it. After all, He died to redeem our souls! And before you get upset that He is shown on the cross, remember that St. Paul said “We preach Christ CRUCIFIED,” and every time I look at the crucifix on my Rosary I bring to my mind what my Lord endured to offer me eternal life.

Yes, I pray the Rosary and I’m proud to have that privilege and opportunity.

 

[1beleevr]

Hey, dchsknight: Thanks for the sentiment, but no need to feel sorry for me; because I am covered by the blood of Christ! The fact that I am a non-catholic BELIEVER, should not make a difference; in the end, it won’t matter what denomination or religion you espoused here on earth:thumbsup: We will all bear the name of: saint, follower and lover of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour! So if we must be different here on earth, let us do it with respect for one another and the love that Christ shows to us Romans 14:10-13.