Why won't non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?

[KenEOTE]

Is it silly because you do not see the meaning? It means that it did not happen. It does not imply that it ever happened. I was about to kill myself and was prevented. Does it mean that I killed myself later since I had been prevented earlier?

First of all, do you see the significance of Mary’s conception of God? There is nothing natural about that. Why can’t you see it? I am curious. Can you tell me why you can’t see it? It is extremely clear to me how miraculous and Holy this union of Mary to the Holy Spirit is.
She is no ordinary woman and he is no ordinary man. How could they live in the flesh after she was joined to the Holy Spirit and creates God into Jesus and brings Him into the world through Her Womb? Nothing in this world could ever match that meaning and purpose. When we are new creations we are no longer driven by the flesh and the demands of the world. She was given her purpose by God and she fulfilled it. Our purpose is different.

Why didn’t you write that Mary is the Mother of God? When we write something it becomes real. It may be common knowledge and that is the problem. To treat her as common knowledge is treating the Mother of God as common.

Well that came while I was writing that post. It hit me that she had to be free from the effects of sin and consequently she would have been saved or born again at the moment of conception in order to be pure for God’s purpose and to remain pure through the years of her development until her maturity. I am leaving now, my wife is doing a duathalon which is a 2 mile run, a half-mile swim and a 3 mile run. This is in 103 degrees temp. She is tougher than me.
God Bless You

Actually whether we write something or not does not make it real. It is real or it is not real, and it doesn’t depend on me to write it. Monkeys can fly to Mars on wings. I just wrote that… it doesn’t make it real.

I am not arguing the awesomeness of how Christ was born. That is beyond our conception of things. It is magnificent.

But where does the idea that she remained a virgin come from? What is the documentation? The thing I don’t understand is, it does not bother me that she remained a virgin, but it seems to bother many that she didn’t. Why? God created the sexual act between a man and woman, he created husbands and wives to do this. So why would it be wrong for them to have done this? Does her virginity have any value to our salvation?

 

[Ronald_E]

Actually whether we write something or not does not make it real. It is real or it is not real, and it doesn’t depend on me to write it. Monkeys can fly to Mars on wings. I just wrote that… it doesn’t make it real.

So you would rather write “Monkeys can fly to Mars.”? As humans, we either write something meaningful or something silly. Writing incorporates different areas of the brain depending on what we write. When I write in my daily Rosary Run journal I am filled with joy and a sense of awe and this is experienced through the neurotransmitters dopamine and seratonin along with some norepinephrine and then stored into long term memory through the hippocampus.
The statement you wrote has no meaning except that it was used by you to disrespect what you did not understand in my request.

I am not arguing the awesomeness of how Christ was born. That is beyond our conception of things. It is magnificent.

What is not beyond our comprehension is how special it is that He chose this nobody of a woman named Mary. I did not comprehend it until Jesus led me to His Mother.
Did you read Jeremiah 31:22 “…for God has created a new thing in the earth, a woman shall compass a man.” That woman is Mary.

But where does the idea that she remained a virgin come from? What is the documentation? The thing I don’t understand is, it does not bother me that she remained a virgin, but it seems to bother many that she didn’t. Why? God created the sexual act between a man and woman, he created husbands and wives to do this. So why would it be wrong for them to have done this? Does her virginity have any value to our salvation?

This is not your ordinary couple. She brought God into the world through her womb. She is no ordinary human being. Our Lord’s DNA is Mary’s DNA.

 

[KenEOTE]

So you would rather write “Monkeys can fly to Mars.”? As humans, we either write something meaningful or something silly. Writing incorporates different areas of the brain depending on what we write. When I write in my daily Rosary Run journal I am filled with joy and a sense of awe and this is experienced through the neurotransmitters dopamine and seratonin along with some norepinephrine and then stored into long term memory through the hippocampus.
The statement you wrote has no meaning except that it was used by you to disrespect what you did not understand in my request.

What is not beyond our comprehension is how special it is that He chose this nobody of a woman named Mary. I did not comprehend it until Jesus led me to His Mother.
Did you read Jeremiah 31:22 “…for God has created a new thing in the earth, a woman shall compass a man.” That woman is Mary.

This is not your ordinary couple. She brought God into the world through her womb. She is no ordinary human being. Our Lord’s DNA is Mary’s DNA.

What you are saying is that it becomes real to you when you write something. At least that is what I am taking as your meaning. I write in a Journal as well I write many meaningful things, I was just showing you that you can write something that doesn’t become true simply because you write it. I understand when you write a prayer or about a verse that as you write you come to understand it deeper. That is not what I have been asking.

OK we are getting off what I am asking. What is wrong with the idea that Mary the mother of God did love Joseph the stepfather of God and that they did become one as man and wife. What is wrong with the idea that she didn’t remain a virgin after she had Jesus? That has been my question, which you seem to not want to answer. I am asking where does that teaching come from what is the documentation.

I understand the DNA, that has not been my question my question is where does the teaching of perpetual virginity come from and why is it important that she remained a virgin?

 

[Ronald_E]

What you are saying is that it becomes real to you when you write something. At least that is what I am taking as your meaning. I write in a Journal as well I write many meaningful things, I was just showing you that you can write something that doesn’t become true simply because you write it. I understand when you write a prayer or about a verse that as you write you come to understand it deeper. That is not what I have been asking.

OK we are getting off what I am asking. What is wrong with the idea that Mary the mother of God did love Joseph the stepfather of God and that they did become one as man and wife. What is wrong with the idea that she didn’t remain a virgin after she had Jesus? That has been my question, which you seem to not want to answer. I am asking where does that teaching come from what is the documentation.

I understand the DNA, that has not been my question my question is where does the teaching of perpetual virginity come from and why is it important that she remained a virgin?

You know Ken, I learned in childhood from the catechism that she remained a virgin. I never thought much of it. I left Catholicism when I was 18 and returned when I was 58 and my first year back I thought there was nothing wrong with her having sex and that it would validate the idea of sex being special and holy for the rest of us.
Then something changed in my perception and it had nothing to do with what the church teaches. It had to do with how I was beginning to develop a spiritual understanding in relationship to Jesus and His Mother and the union she had with the Holy Spirit. In this case you can say that I have no theological basis for my acceptance of her perpetual virginity and that is ok with me.
It took a while for my change of heart.
I love what I see in our faith and how these mysteries open over time. It is like God does not give us anything before we are open enough to knowing a deeper expression of His Love. It has nothing to do with salvation for me as an individual but the deeper I know His Love the more it affects others.
For instance, knowing HIs Love for Mary inspires me to be more aware of the pain of women in this world and how deep that pain is felt. Women bring life into the world and they are God’s gift of Love to us men. They suffer the minute they are not recognized as God’s Gift to us and as a result their children suffer.
There is much too much to write on this.
Thanks Ken for your requiring me to be clearer in my response to you.
God Bless.

 

[KenEOTE]

You know Ken, I learned in childhood from the catechism that she remained a virgin. I never thought much of it. I left Catholicism when I was 18 and returned when I was 58 and my first year back I thought there was nothing wrong with her having sex and that it would validate the idea of sex being special and holy for the rest of us.
Then something changed in my perception and it had nothing to do with what the church teaches. It had to do with how I was beginning to develop a spiritual understanding in relationship to Jesus and His Mother and the union she had with the Holy Spirit. In this case you can say that I have no theological basis for my acceptance of her perpetual virginity and that is ok with me.
It took a while for my change of heart.
I love what I see in our faith and how these mysteries open over time. It is like God does not give us anything before we are open enough to knowing a deeper expression of His Love. It has nothing to do with salvation for me as an individual but the deeper I know His Love the more it affects others.
For instance, knowing HIs Love for Mary inspires me to be more aware of the pain of women in this world and how deep that pain is felt. Women bring life into the world and they are God’s gift of Love to us men. They suffer the minute they are not recognized as God’s Gift to us and as a result their children suffer.
There is much too much to write on this.
Thanks Ken for your requiring me to be clearer in my response to you.
God Bless.

Ronald,

Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have said. I thank you for taking the time. Often when this subject comes up it becomes way too heated for my taste. I simply am trying to understand why things are taught or said.
Ken

 

[Ronald_E]

Ronald,

Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have said. I thank you for taking the time. Often when this subject comes up it becomes way too heated for my taste. I simply am trying to understand why things are taught or said.

Ken

Ken, I can dig it:thumbsup:

 

[sola_scriptura]

**Sola Scriptura - you are argumentative and there is no pleasure to debate with someone like you.

I didn’t mean that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit - that was a slip of the finger!

As I said you have to step back and look at the big picture. If you cannot see that Mary’s purpose was to give birth to Jesus and not for procreation then…

Nobody said that sex is bad except you Sola - I said it was pleasurable remember…

**

Sorry – being argumentative is my nature (I blame law school)

However, outside of the references to marital relations, which need no further mention, I do think the RCC doctrine is problematic for the reasons I noted. Anyways …

Blessings

 

[Jimmy_B]

Sorry – being argumentative is my nature (I blame law school)

However, outside of the references to marital relations, which need no further mention, I do think the RCC doctrine is problematic for the reasons I noted. Anyways …

Blessings

Hello Counselor,

Don’t apologize; I enjoy reading your posts. Could you please list the “reasons”, maybe a “top-ten” list, of why the Roman Catholic Church’s doctrine is “problematic”?

BTW, did you read my first four or five posts here?

Peace

 

[Little_Mary]

Hello Counselor,

Don’t apologize; I enjoy reading your posts. Could you please list the “reasons”, maybe a “top-ten” list, of why the Roman Catholic Church’s doctrine is “problematic”?

BTW, did you read my first four or five posts here?

Peace

May I add to this? My question is: Problematic for whom? You, Sole Scriptura? On what basis? Your own personal interpretation of scripture? Are you infallible? What do you say to other protestants who disagree with your interpretations? Are they wrong? If so, what makes you right? Your own self-proclaimed infallibility? Again I ask, problematic for whom?

That is all.

 

[Cinette]

Sorry – being argumentative is my nature (I blame law school)

However, outside of the references to marital relations, which need no further mention, I do think the RCC doctrine is problematic for the reasons I noted. Anyways …

Blessings

**I am a woman, Mother of 4, Grandmother of 8 1/2 and Great Grandmother of 1. My husband and I have had a very loving relationship always with a very active sex life. However, when i came back to the Church and began to frequent the Sacrament of Confession (Reconciliation) again, I found myself checking my behaviour. When I was about to commit sins, even the smallest, I found myself thinking what I was doing and would stop myself because I knew that I was going to have to confess them. That is how I stopped masturbation altogether. Actually not so much because I thought it was very bad but because I thought that it was unnecessary and that I was above these things. When I think of our Blessed Mother I regard her as a being who is in another plane. She took care of Jesus and her heart was pierced by many sorrows - when she lost his for three days before finding him in the Temple (she knew he was destined for something special and that her responsibility was about something special). Mary and Joseph protected Jesus from evil and then she witnessed his Passion and was at the foot of the cross. I believe that Mary and Joseph were both acutely aware of the role of Jesus and were not concerned with carnal matters. Jesus, who was the Son of God, who was God Himself and Creator, created sex but did not go after women himself. Why? Because he was in a different plane! So I accept that Mary remained virgin because she had been elevated to another plane.

So law school has something to do with you being argumentative? Well then, how about having an enquiring mind, huh? Let me suggest some homework. How about getting two little books by Patrick Madrid: Where is that in the Bible? and Answer me This! You might go further and get a book called The Four witnesses and even Catholicism and Fundamentalism and Scott Hahn’s book Hail Holy Queen. I tell you this you may not “agree” ( say “agree” because one cannot really “agree” with the truth) with the truth but you will never say that Catholicism is boring. That I can guarantee you.

Learn about Tradition (with a capital T) about Apostolic Succession, about the the origin of the bible and oh I almost forgot, when you find that verse about Sola Scriptura in the bible do share it with us! We would be most interested. We have looked for it for years…

:banghead: **

 

[sola_scriptura]

Hello Counselor,

Don’t apologize; I enjoy reading your posts. Could you please list the “reasons”, maybe a “top-ten” list, of why the Roman Catholic Church’s doctrine is “problematic”?

BTW, did you read my first four or five posts here?

Peace

Well, I’m always hesitant to do this, but I will since you asked. First I think the Catholic, particularly the RCC, tradition is wonderful in many ways. Even as a Protestant I have a great deal of respect for the Pope.

Many people (Catholics & non-Catholics alike) had great admiration for Pope John Paul. It seems like many still miss him, although I happen to like Benedict as well. Frankly, he’s more dogmatic (which is why I imagine people perhaps like John Paul more) … but of course as a Calvinist I have an appreciation for a man who doesn’t water it down, even if it sounds harsh (it would be hard to be a Calvinist otherwise, since he is commonly referred to as the Darth Vader of Chritianity ). Plus Benedict is a huge fan of Augustine’s work, as am I. However, Benedict also has a lower predisposition toward tolerance, perhaps, I’m looking forward to seeing how things shape up with Benedict.

Anyway, my main objections are as follows:

1. A Mary born without sin. Not to say she was a deviant sinner, but to say she was born unlike her contemporaries is problematic to the humanity of Christ. Moreover, the idea of Mary as Ark (though I’m not sure if this is doctrine per se). I believe Jesus as Ark is the proper typology. Moreover, I think Irenaeus is given way too much credit for theological fortitude. Mary is not a New Eve. She does fit in with the protoevangelium of Gen. 3:15 but not in the way Irenaeus thought.
2. Veneration, intercession, use of icons (though the first two are more problematic – since church art is quite amazing … I have to think God would agree, I mean anyone who has ever visited Rome knows what I’m talking about).
3. Purgatory
4. An apparent unwillingness to think any ancient (or contemporary for that matter) church father could be simply wrong in their exegesis.
5. Infallibility (perhaps my biggest pet peeve).
6. Penance, to an extent (not a really big deal though, just think it sends the wrong message by labeling confession and repentance using a word that implies a punitive requirement for forgiveness – like penance).
7. Backtracking from Augustine’s great doctrine of predestination, abandoning its so called “harsher” elements. Overall theological disagreement in the area of predestination, perseverance, and grace.

These are really the main ones, but there’s a few others that are obviously less important (since I can’t recall them right now).

The celibacy “requirement” is also wrongful IMO. Not that I see anything wrong with someone who chooses celibacy, but labeling it as a requirement to pastor a congregation does seem to go against scripture. Paul framed it as a choice, and IMO so should Christians.

The overall idea of a Papacy is also somewhat problematic, but if it were a first among equals – as it is with the EOC (with perhaps some additional limits on infallibility) it probably wouldn’t be a big deal (since, although I’m Presbyterian I don’t see a problem with an episcopal structure).

Even if a case could be made that the role of Peter was envisioned by Christ to extend into a Papacy (which I would disagree with); Peter hardly had the power over the disciples that the Pope maintains. He was more of a mediator than overlord. Taming Paul and James wasn’t an easy for Peter; but Jesus knew He picked the right guy for the job. I have a great deal of love for both Peter and Paul, definitely my two favorites (if I had to pick a favorite Apostle I guess it would be Paul – not only because he wrote nearly two thirds of the New Testament, but his absolute confidence was unbending, the type of guy that never did anything half way).

Anyway … that about sums it up.

 

[sola_scriptura]

I am a woman, Mother of 4, Grandmother of 8 1/2 and Great Grandmother of 1. My husband and I have had a very loving relationship always with a very active sex life. However, when i came back to the Church and began to frequent the Sacrament of Confession (Reconciliation) again, I found myself checking my behaviour. When I was about to commit sins, even the smallest, I found myself thinking what I was doing and would stop myself because I knew that I was going to have to confess them. That is how I stopped masturbation altogether. Actually not so much because I thought it was very bad but because I thought that it was unnecessary and that I was above these things. When I think of our Blessed Mother I regard her as a being who is in another plane. She took care of Jesus and her heart was pierced by many sorrows - when she lost his for three days before finding him in the Temple (she knew he was destined for something special and that her responsibility was about something special). Mary and Joseph protected Jesus from evil and then she witnessed his Passion and was at the foot of the cross. I believe that Mary and Joseph were both acutely aware of the role of Jesus and were not concerned with carnal matters. Jesus, who was the Son of God, who was God Himself and Creator, created sex but did not go after women himself. Why? Because he was in a different plane! So I accept that Mary remained virgin because she had been elevated to another plane.

I agree even thinking impure thoughts (particularly of a sexual nature) is sinful. Obviously God will forgive these sorts of things, but I agree it’s something that should diminish in Christian life as one becomes exceedingly filled with the Spirit and sanctified.

I’ll be honest, I’m not exactly comfortable talking about the “m” word with a grandma. No disrespect, to the contrary. The good angel my shoulder tells me to refrain from discussing this issue in depth (and I fired the bad angel when I became saved)

So law school has something to do with you being argumentative? Well then, how about having an enquiring mind, huh? Let me suggest some homework. How about getting two little books by Patrick Madrid: Where is that in the Bible? and Answer me This! You might go further and get a book called The Four witnesses and even Catholicism and Fundamentalism and Scott Hahn’s book Hail Holy Queen. I tell you this you may not “agree” ( say “agree” because one cannot really “agree” with the truth) with the truth but you will never say that Catholicism is boring. That I can guarantee you.

 

[guanophore]

John the Baptist. This is what Jesus said about him in Matthew 11:11–11 “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

This passage actually said just the opposite of what you are trying to make it show. Mary was the very first Christian, and maybe the greatest in the Kingdom, but certainly prominent within His Kingdom. She saw the ushering in of the Church, something that John could not see, which is what makes each Christian greater than John. We are born of the Spirit.

I disagree. Mary was not included as an apostle. Keep in mind that it was they who had the privilege of spending 3 years with Him and being taught by Him.

No, but she did accompany them, along with a number of other women. Do you think that Jesus excluded women? Furthermore, what do you think that Mary saw and learned before He had to leave home for public ministry? She has seen Him do more than all the rest of us put together!

Even in terms of influence the apostles have far greater influence than she did. We have the writings of the apostles while we have no writings or teachings of Mary.

Well…we read it differently! If every Christian followed only Mary’s direction, each would end up in heaven!

Where in any of the commandments that deals with honor does it say that praying to that person is honoring that person?

How is it anything but honoring to ask someone for their intercession? Scripture clearly states that we should seek the prayers of fervent and righteous person. Don’t you think that this is a compliment?

 

[guanophore]

He knows this. But does he want to listen?

He may not WANT to listen, but something (or someone) keeps compalling Him to return here, so you never know!

 

[guanophore]

She was a virgin how does that state that she remained a virgin?

Personally I do not understand the anger people have that she might have made love to her husband.

Matthew 1:18
Conception and Birth of Jesus ] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, **before they came together **she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit
Wouldn’t this mean that they eventually did come together?

Matthew 1:24And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,

Matthew 1:25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

This is from the New American Standard Version.

I don’t think it is anger about that, it is indignation about rejecting the Apostolic Teaching. If God had wanted her to have a normal marriage, that would have been a great blessing also. However, He chose Her to become the mother of His only son, and she remained a virgin all her life, so that she could give HIm her full and undivided attention.

 

[Cinette]

**

This is for Sola Scriptura:

The CC has been around for 2008 years and Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit would guide us. Are you saying that the HS abandoned the Church and that is why Luther and the other guys were right in planting a whole plantation of new churches? I don’t think so.

So you don’t like Scott Hahn? OK that is your choice but what about Marcus Grodi, Karl Keating, G K Chesterton, Thomas Woods (How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization), Rob Bennett, Alphonse Ratisbonne, David Goldstein, Rabbi Zolli, Roy Schoeman, etc. etc. etc. ???

How about Matthew 14:24-30?? Yes, its true we have huge numbers of sinners in the CC and always will have.

About our Blessed Mother Mary. Did you know that Zwingli, Calvin and Luther loved her very much and held her in high esteem and would be hopping mad with the way Protestants treat her these days? Well not all Protestants…

I was away from the Catholic Church for 27 years… A lot of us come back you know. We are influenced by secular society etc…

If you find it uncomfortable talking about the ‘m’ word with a grandmother how much more uncomfortable is even the thought** of the word in regard to Mother Mary?

I’m sure you are a nice bloke and I hope you will continue to scratch and search and that one day you will have a smile on your face that will never go away.

Blessings
:yup: :dancing: :wave:

 

[ChristianRoots]

I’ll be honest, I’m not exactly comfortable talking about the “m” word with a grandma. No disrespect, to the contrary. The good angel my shoulder tells me to refrain from discussing this issue in depth (and I fired the bad angel when I became saved)

In your opinion, how does one become “saved?”

Do you remember the exact date and time when it happened to you? If so, when was it?

I know all about AS. With regard to sola scriptura, try 2 Tim. 3:16, Isaiah 8:20, and Mark 7:13.

I did try 2 Timothy 3:16. I don’t see justification for **sola **scriptura. How do you see it in that verse??? That verse says Scripture is profitable…it doesn’t say **ONLY **Scripture is profitable… Do you agree or disagree?

If you agree, you should then change your moniker since its misleading. If you disagree, please show me biblically why you think God’s Word is found only in the written form.

BTW, Mk 7:13 never says God’s Word is found ONLY in Sacred Scripture. Why do you assume it does say that?

 

[justasking4]

Don’t confuse “Pray to” with “Worship”.

We pray to Mary. We do not worship her. We ask her to pray for us.

We worship God. We also pray to God (asking for things). We worship God alone.

We do not worship Mary.

Just trying to be clear, here.

Justasking4 mentioned that there are many prayers addressed TO Mary. That is true.

There are no prayers to WORSHP Mary.

Are not prayers in the OT always to and to God?

Are prayers not only used in worship?

 

[sola_scriptura]

**

This is for Sola Scriptura:

The CC has been around for 2008 years and Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit would guide us. Are you saying that the HS abandoned the Church and that is why Luther and the other guys were right in planting a whole plantation of new churches? I don’t think so.

So you don’t like Scott Hahn? OK that is your choice but what about Marcus Grodi, Karl Keating, G K Chesterton, Thomas Woods (How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization), Rob Bennett, Alphonse Ratisbonne, David Goldstein, Rabbi Zolli, Roy Schoeman, etc. etc. etc. ???

How about Matthew 14:24-30?? Yes, its true we have huge numbers of sinners in the CC and always will have.

About our Blessed Mother Mary. Did you know that Zwingli, Calvin and Luther loved her very much and held her in high esteem and would be hopping mad with the way Protestants treat her these days? Well not all Protestants…

I was away from the Catholic Church for 27 years… A lot of us come back you know. We are influenced by secular society etc…

If you find it uncomfortable talking about the ‘m’ word with a grandmother how much more uncomfortable is even the thought** of the word in regard to Mother Mary?

I’m sure you are a nice bloke and I hope you will continue to scratch and search and that one day you will have a smile on your face that will never go away.

Blessings

:yup:    :dancing:    :wave:

I was talking about a different “m” word (which you mentioned in the last post). Anyway, not to stuck on semantics?

Look, it’s not as if I’m not Christian. I’m Presbyterian. The reason I would not consider the Catholic faith is because I think they’re wrong in terms of theology – pure & simple. I don’t think you can have erroneous theology, need to undergo a counter-reformation, and call yourself infallible.

I think infallibility is leading the RCC down a theological slippery slope, which is witness to me that it’s an erroneous doctrine (not to mention the counter-reformation, which is logical and tangible evidence).

IMO longevity (a very common argument I hear) doesn’t mean anything. If that were the barometer I’d be running to my nearest Synagogue. As far as the Magisterial reformers, you say they loved Mary very much. This implies that you think people who believe the RCC is wrong about her somehow hate her or perhaps have a level of disdain for her. I frankly believe the opposite is true.

IMO Marian theology is errorneous; and for the most part derides the structural integrity and spirit of scripture. Therefore, IMO those of us who merely preach what we believe to be the truth regarding Mary are defending her – nothing else. You would have her as the spiritual spouse of the Holy Spirit while at the same time the temporal spouse of Joseph. Even assuming Mary was a perpetual virgin (and of course a spiritual marriage is solely that – spiritual) it’s still assumes that in her heart she wasn’t fully committed to Joseph. Forget about the injury this does to the integrity of the marriage between Joseph and Mary (upon which Jesus’ legal title to throne of David rides), what about what this says about Mary? And what about Joseph?

 

[sola_scriptura]

In your opinion, how does one become “saved?”

Do you remember the exact date and time when it happened to you? If so, when was it?

I did try 2 Timothy 3:16. I don’t see justification for **sola **scriptura. How do you see it in that verse??? That verse says Scripture is profitable…it doesn’t say **ONLY **Scripture is profitable… Do you agree or disagree?

If you agree, you should then change your moniker since its misleading. If you disagree, please show me biblically why you think God’s Word is found only in the written form.

BTW, Mk 7:13 never says God’s Word is found ONLY in Sacred Scripture. Why do you assume it does say that?

first you should understand that sola scriptura does not mean we ignore Christian history or tradition.

**To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn (other versions say “light”) (Isaiah 8:20).

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16).

you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that" (Mark 7:12-13) (NASB). **

These passage provide an adequately clear picture. The traditions of men may not supersede the word of God. Those who do not speak according to the word do not have light. Profound words if you ask me.