Why won't non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?

[Jimmy_B]

Hi Justasking

Tell me please - when Jesus told the Apostles to go and spread the good news, what “bible” did they use? What was the source of their information?

After they passed on what instruments/source did their successors use for over 1000 years?

I would be very interested to learn what you have to say on this topic?

:banghead:

Good question.

First came Jesus, then the Apostles, then the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, then the Bible…then, 1500 years after the fact… Protestants. Am I wrong?

Peace.

 

[Non_Serviam]

Thank you for the quotes, which all predated the formation of the Bible.

Thanks.

I had never thought of this point-it makes me doubly doubtful now, why none of the Epistles contain direct references to/prayers invoking the intercession of specific departed saints/martyrs for the problems/challenges facing local assemblies.

One would have thought that such intercession, by Stephen and others would have been welcome give the difficulties many of the assemblies were facing and yet no mention from Peter, Paul, etc in their letters.

Perhaps the Apostles and other writers of Scripture weren’t supportive of this practice, even though it was being practiced and promoted by some contemporaries such as those you cite. Paul’s mention of some baptizing for the dead isn’t thought by most scholars to indicate support for the practice, even though it may have been practiced by some who called themselves believers.

As for the references to saints’ prayers in Revelation, they could simply refer to the prayers of the “saints” in the church on earth being collected, John using “saint” in just the same way the other NT writers did.

As to the original question-it isn’t a devotion that that I’ve been drawn to in part due to my lack of belief in the idea of praying to dead believers (if they do offer intercessory prayers, they are able to do so without being specifically requested to do so), and the repetitive aspect. The idea of contemplation of key portions and events of Scripture is a good one that I do practice on a regular basis.

Thoughts?

 

[Hisalone]

Good question.

First came Jesus, then the Apostles, then the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, then the Bible…then, 1500 years after the fact… Protestants. Am I wrong?

Peace.

Yes you are wrong.

First came the covenant.
Then God made a people for Himself.
Then God delivers His people out of the bondage of Egypt.
Then God made another covenant this time with a rule of law.
With this law God gave private revelation to His prophets to write down His oracles so all people might learn His word. Thus the scriptures were born long before the Roman Church.
Then God brought a Messiah a Deliverer through His people to His people.
This Messiah taught His followers about the Father about His mission and How to tell others about Him.
These followers went into all the world to make disciples.
Many of the these who then became disciples were gentiles who were pagans. They brought with them many pagan beleifs and practices and departed from those that went before them.
Slowly a institution which resembled other earthly governments was formed this was called the Roman Catholic Church.
Today those who belong to this man-made instituition claim that it is Gods true Church and to this day have been ceiceved.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Yes you are wrong.

First came the covenant…Today those who belong to this man-made instituition claim that it is Gods true Church and to this day have been ceiceved.

Hello Hisalone,

I suppose that I could have started with the Old Testament and with Genesis but I started with the New Testament. I think you got the point.

Would you please explain your quote above? I heard it before and always wanted to know what it meant…if anything.

Peace

Merry Christmas - Happy Birthday Baby Jesus!

 

[guanophore]

Yes you are wrong.

Many of the these who then became disciples were gentiles who were pagans. They brought with them many pagan beleifs and practices and departed from those that went before them.
Slowly a institution which resembled other earthly governments was formed this was called the Roman Catholic Church.
Today those who belong to this man-made instituition claim that it is Gods true Church and to this day have been ceiceved.

Perhaps this is the answer to the question I just posed to you? Is your purpose here on CAF to tell Catholics that we are wrong, and that we are being deceived by our Church?

Would you please explain your quote above? I heard it before and always wanted to know what it meant…if anything.

I would like to add my request to Jimmy B. Can you please explain how the “pagan influences entered the Church” and how “something resembling a man-made institution” occurred?

 

[Good_Fella]

Yes you are wrong.

First came the covenant.
Then God made a people for Himself.
Then God delivers His people out of the bondage of Egypt.
Then God made another covenant this time with a rule of law.
With this law God gave private revelation to His prophets to write down His oracles so all people might learn His word. Thus the scriptures were born long before the Roman Church.
Then God brought a Messiah a Deliverer through His people to His people.
This Messiah taught His followers about the Father about His mission and How to tell others about Him.
These followers went into all the world to make disciples.
Many of the these who then became disciples were gentiles who were pagans. They brought with them many pagan beleifs and practices and departed from those that went before them.
Slowly a institution which resembled other earthly governments was formed this was called the Roman Catholic Church.
Today those who belong to this man-made instituition claim that it is Gods true Church and to this day have been ceiceved.

“He that is not with me is against me. He who doesn’t gather with me scatters.”
Luke 11, 23

It doesn’t appear that Martin Luther and the early so-called reformers were led by the Spirit. :nope:

“And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail…”
Origen (A.D. 232) *
[cf. Mt 16:17-19; Lk 12: 41-42; 22:32]*

“Our Apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, there would be strife on account of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained perfect knowledge of this, they appointed those ministers already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry.”
Clement of Rome (c. A.D. 96) *
[cf. Acts 6:16; 9:17-19; 13:3; 1 Tim 4:14]*

“Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”
Ignatius of Antioch (c. A.D. 110)*
[cf. Acts 20: 17, 28; 1 Tim 3:1;Titus 1:7]*

"And besides, also, one only Catholic and Apostolic Church, which can never be destroyed, though all the world may seek to make war with it; but it is victorious over every most impious revolt of the heretics who rise up against it. For her Goodman hath confirmed our minds by saying, ‘Be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.’ "
Alexander of Alexandria (A.D. 321)*
[cf. Lk 10:16; 22:32; Jn 14:16; 16:12-13; 1 Cor 12:28; Eph 3:20; 1 Tim 3:15; 1 Jn 4:6]*

“But the word of the Lord, which came through the ecumenical Synod in Nicea, abides forever.”
Athanasius (A.D. 372) *
[cf. Acts 15: 27-28; Eph 3:10; 4:13, 15]*

“Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters. It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished in the Lord’s Scriptures.”
Irenaeus (A.D. 180)
[cf.Lk 1:1-4; Acts 8:30-31; Heb 5:12; 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 3:6; 2 Pet 1:20; 3:16]

“Separate a ray of the sun from its body of light, its unity does not allow a division of light; break a branch from a tree, when broken, it will not be able to bud; cut off the stream from its fountain, and that which is cut off dries up. Thus also the Church, shone over with the light of the Lord, sheds forth her rays over the whole world, yet it is one light which is everywhere diffused, nor is the unity of the body separated. Her fruitful abundance spreads her branches over the whole world. She broadly expands her rivers, liberally flowing, yet her head is one, her source one; and she is one mother; plentiful in the results of fritfulness: from her womb we are born, by her milk we are nourished, by her spirit we are animated.”
*Cyprian (A.D. 256) *
[cf. Jn 10:16; 17:11, 21, 23; Rom 16:17; Eph 1: 22-23; 4:3-5; 5:23-32; Col 1:18, 24; 2 Tim 4:3; Phil 1:27 Rev 7:9]

Six of the above seven Church Fathers weren’t “Roman”. You should read what they have taught about Mary.

PAX :harp:

 

[Good_Fella]

Thanks.

I had never thought of this point-it makes me doubly doubtful now, why none of the Epistles contain direct references to/prayers invoking the intercession of specific departed saints/martyrs for the problems/challenges facing local assemblies.

One would have thought that such intercession, by Stephen and others would have been welcome give the difficulties many of the assemblies were facing and yet no mention from Peter, Paul, etc in their letters.

As for the references to saints’ prayers in Revelation, they could simply refer to the prayers of the “saints” in the church on earth being collected, John using “saint” in just the same way the other NT writers did.

As to the original question-it isn’t a devotion that that I’ve been drawn to in part due to my lack of belief in the idea of praying to dead believers (if they do offer intercessory prayers, they are able to do so without being specifically requested to do so), and the repetitive aspect. The idea of contemplation of key portions and events of Scripture is a good one that I do practice on a regular basis.

Thoughts?

If one reads Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem, he will find no record of the apostles and presbyters reciting any form of prayer, including the ‘Our Father’, during its convocation. But I’m sure they must have said prayers at the beginning and end of the council. Neither is there any record of formal prayers being recited at the following assembly in Antioch. We can only imagine whatever form these prayers took.

“He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
Matthew 22, 32

For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family [God’s whole family] in heaven and on earth is named.
Ephesians 3, 14:15

The repetitive aspect? Have you read 'The Parable of the Persistent Widow [Luke 18: 1-8]? We should never grow weary of any form of prayer. It boosts my hope to repeat 53 times in a single recitation of the Rosary: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen”

PAX

 

[SIA]

Why won’t non-Catholic Christians recite the Holy Rosary?

I’m laughing again because you obviously once again are ignorant of what you call Protestantism. Anglicans DO recite the Rosary. I believe that possibly some Lutherans do as well. Maybe you don’t consider us Protestants. I guess that would be a thought.

 

[Good_Fella]

I’m laughing again because you obviously once again are ignorant of what you call Protestantism. Anglicans DO recite the Rosary. I believe that possibly some Lutherans do as well. Maybe you don’t consider us Protestants. I guess that would be a thought.

Alas, there are too many Catholics who don’t recite the Rosary, and that doesn’t make them Protestant. Perhaps Jimmy is seeking a Protestant explanation that is based on non-Catholic fundamental doctrines, such as Sola Christu.

 

[Non_Serviam]

If one reads Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem, he will find no record of the apostles and presbyters reciting any form of prayer, including the ‘Our Father’, during its convocation. But I’m sure they must have said prayers at the beginning and end of the council. Neither is there any record of formal prayers being recited at the following assembly in Antioch. We can only imagine whatever form these prayers took.

“He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
Matthew 22, 32

For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family [God’s whole family] in heaven and on earth is named.
Ephesians 3, 14:15

The repetitive aspect? Have you read 'The Parable of the Persistent Widow [Luke 18: 1-8]? We should never grow weary of any form of prayer. It boosts my hope to repeat 53 times in a single recitation of the Rosary: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen”

PAX

I can’t agree that I’m “sure” they prayed during the Council in Acts 15. I believe it to be probable, but I have no evidence to confirm it, so to assert it with certainty is reading into the text.

That said, why do I believe it to be probable? Because the other texts in Acts, the Epistles, the entire Bible shows examples of prayer as an important part of ascertaining the will of God. So in light of those examples, one can suggest that prayer played a role in the Jerusalem Council.

In terms of requesting intercession from those in the church who had died there are no examples in Acts, the Epistles, and while we have mention in Jesus’ parable in Luke 16 of the dead Rich Man interceding with Abraham to send Lazarus to speak to his brothers, it certainly doesn’t set a precedent for living church members to ask dead saints to pray for them. Praying to the saints doesn’t appear as part of Apostolic practice, and for that reason I find it to be of doubtful provenance and don’t do it as part of my prayer life.

As for the two verses quoted, there is no quarrel between us that Christians continue to be Christians after their death, but there’s no more mandate to continue asking them to pray for us any more than we would continue to ask them to usher, serve communion, sing in the choir or teach Sunday school. The idea some Catholic apologists put forward of there being no difference between living and dead church members loses a lot of its steam when one considers those examples and not just prayer.

As for the repetitive aspect, Jesus condemned “vain repetition” which must be a subset of repetition or the term would be redundant (a lot of Protestants miss that point). The repetitive nature of the Pharisees’ prayers was in vain because their motive was wrong and the focus was not on God. Likewise for me, continued repetition of a prayer or phrase is more distracting for me than beneficial so it isn’t a form of prayer I practice. I have a great deal of respect for the Jesus Prayer, but for the same reason I don’t practice it.

Thoughts?

 

[Hisalone]

Hello Hisalone,

I suppose that I could have started with the Old Testament and with Genesis but I started with the New Testament. I think you got the point.

Would you please explain your quote above? I heard it before and always wanted to know what it meant…if anything.

Peace

Merry Christmas - Happy Birthday Baby Jesus!

It means that you have been decieved into believing that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded.You base your entire belief system on this presuposition which is false.

 

[Hisalone]

The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.

 

[Hisalone]

“He that is not with me is against me. He who doesn’t gather with me scatters.”
Luke 11, 23

It doesn’t appear that Martin Luther and the early so-called reformers were led by the Spirit. :nope:

“And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail…”
Origen (A.D. 232) *
[cf. Mt 16:17-19; Lk 12: 41-42; 22:32]*

“Our Apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, there would be strife on account of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained perfect knowledge of this, they appointed those ministers already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry.”
Clement of Rome (c. A.D. 96) *
[cf. Acts 6:16; 9:17-19; 13:3; 1 Tim 4:14]*

“Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”
Ignatius of Antioch (c. A.D. 110)*
[cf. Acts 20: 17, 28; 1 Tim 3:1;Titus 1:7]*

"And besides, also, one only Catholic and Apostolic Church, which can never be destroyed, though all the world may seek to make war with it; but it is victorious over every most impious revolt of the heretics who rise up against it. For her Goodman hath confirmed our minds by saying, ‘Be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.’ "
Alexander of Alexandria (A.D. 321)*
[cf. Lk 10:16; 22:32; Jn 14:16; 16:12-13; 1 Cor 12:28; Eph 3:20; 1 Tim 3:15; 1 Jn 4:6]*

“But the word of the Lord, which came through the ecumenical Synod in Nicea, abides forever.”
Athanasius (A.D. 372) *
[cf. Acts 15: 27-28; Eph 3:10; 4:13, 15]*

“Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters. It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished in the Lord’s Scriptures.”
Irenaeus (A.D. 180)
[cf.Lk 1:1-4; Acts 8:30-31; Heb 5:12; 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 3:6; 2 Pet 1:20; 3:16]

“Separate a ray of the sun from its body of light, its unity does not allow a division of light; break a branch from a tree, when broken, it will not be able to bud; cut off the stream from its fountain, and that which is cut off dries up. Thus also the Church, shone over with the light of the Lord, sheds forth her rays over the whole world, yet it is one light which is everywhere diffused, nor is the unity of the body separated. Her fruitful abundance spreads her branches over the whole world. She broadly expands her rivers, liberally flowing, yet her head is one, her source one; and she is one mother; plentiful in the results of fritfulness: from her womb we are born, by her milk we are nourished, by her spirit we are animated.”
*Cyprian (A.D. 256) *
[cf. Jn 10:16; 17:11, 21, 23; Rom 16:17; Eph 1: 22-23; 4:3-5; 5:23-32; Col 1:18, 24; 2 Tim 4:3; Phil 1:27 Rev 7:9]

Six of the above seven Church Fathers weren’t “Roman”. You should read what they have taught about Mary.

PAX :harp:

For God is a holy God let there be no Gods before Him.

 

[guanophore]

Six of the above seven Church Fathers weren’t “Roman”. You should read what they have taught about Mary.

Thanks for all these wonderful citations. I have enjoyed reading a number of your fine posts today. May God bless your laborsl:byzsoc:

 

[Cinette]

It means that you have been decieved into believing that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded.You base your entire belief system on this presuposition which is false.

False?

Please explain and site your source? Where did you acquire such knowledge ? What history books?

Thank you
Cinette

 

[Good_Fella]

For God is a holy God let there be no Gods before Him.

What more can I say other than you confuse prayer with worship?

1 Timothy 2: 1-4

 

[bookgirl32]

It means that you have been decieved into believing that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded.You base your entire belief system on this presuposition which is false.

And your presuposition of Sola Scriptura is true?

 

[Hisalone]

False?

Please explain and site your source? Where did you acquire such knowledge ? What history books?

Thank you
Cinette

Hello Cinette I hope and trust you had a wonderfull Christmas and will continue throuhthe New Year.
When I read Acts and 1 Corinthians I see a Christian Community that does not look like nor act like the Roman Catholic Church.
When Christianity cast off its Jewish roots it threw away its compass.
Books recommended are Capernicus and the Jews, Homecoming (a return to the roots of our faith) and Constatines Sword.

 

[Hisalone]

And your presuposition of Sola Scriptura is true?

When you have a question whether you go to the teaching of Catholicism or you turn to lok in the bible tells what your authority is. The teachings of Catholicism or the word of God. The teachings of man or the word of God?
You would say that the teachings of theCatholic Church are the word of God. I wold disagree.

 

[SIA]

When you have a question whether you go to the teaching of Catholicism or you turn to lok in the bible tells what your authority is. The teachings of Catholicism or the word of God. The teachings of man or the word of God?
You would say that the teachings of theCatholic Church are the word of God. I wold disagree.

I would disagree as well.