Why Would A Catholic Vote For A ProChoice Canidate?

[wow]

Once again, who will not vote for the lesser of two evils automatically votes for the greater of those evils.

There is nothing moral about hiding under a basket and pretending the outside world doesn’t exist.

I don’t want to hijack this thread but I must respond and say I don’t see putting my trust in the Lord as hiding under a basket which is another topic all in itself.

Peace,

 

[vern_humphrey]

I don’t want to hijack this thread but I must respond and say I don’t see putting my trust in the Lord as hiding under a basket which is another topic all in itself.

Peace,

The Lord did not put us here to sit listlessly by and allow evil to happen – He expects us to do our best to prevent or minimize it.

Who will not vote for the lesser of two evils automatically votes for the greater of two evils.

 

[iamrefreshed]

To those who won’t vote because ‘everyone does some evil’ I submit then you will only vote when the Pope runs against Jesus

 

[wow]

The Lord did not put us here to sit listlessly by and allow evil to happen – He expects us to do our best to prevent or minimize it.

This I agree with.

There are many ways to fight the evil that exists in the world today without choosing the lesser of two evils.

Respectfully, I do not agree that abstinence from voting automatically decides a vote for either evil.

 

[vern_humphrey]

To those who won’t vote because ‘everyone does some evil’ I submit then you will only vote when the Pope runs against Jesus

And one of the most common ways people do evil is to hide under a basket, instead of standing up forthrightly and doing battle.

 

[wow]

To those who won’t vote because ‘everyone does some evil’ I submit then you will only vote when the Pope runs against Jesus

I like that.

 

[dmelosi]

This I agree with.

There are many ways to fight the evil that exists in the world today without choosing the lesser of two evils.

Respectfully, I do not agree that abstinence from voting automatically decides a vote for either evil.

I agree with much of what you say, but your not voting does not help the pro abortion candidates hear what the true pro lifers say.

If a person decides to not vote for a pro abort candidate, (which I mostly agree with), then the question becomes, how is the voice heard by those that dont vote?

IF a person decides to not vote, why not have a write in…the write in needs to be Pro Life, so those number can be counted.

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

Some vote their conscience as they truly want to vote for the lesser of two evils in these times.

No matter who you choose, a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

I have decided not to vote for either evil and put it in the hands of our Lord and pray for whoever is chosen.

As Marshall Sam McCloud would say…

“There ya go…”

 

[jc-servant]

The Lord did not put us here to sit listlessly by and allow evil to happen – He expects us to do our best to prevent or minimize it.

Who will not vote for the lesser of two evils automatically votes for the greater of two evils.

Exactly right. Remember all of the people who stood by and did nothing during WWII while millions of people were killed by their own government? Sitting at home and doing nothing did not save lives. Those evil people were originally voted into office by someone.

I’m with you on this one Vern. We all have a responsibility to educate ourselves about the issues and candidates and to make our best informed decision. We may disagree on what that decision should be, but sitting home is not an option as a responsible citizen. As a minority woman, I am certainly not going to sit at home and waste the vote that people suffered and died for me to receive.

“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”

 

[wow]

why not have a write in…the write in needs to be Pro Life, so those number can be counted.

dmelosi,

You are right. Where I live you do not get to vote on any local issues or canidates unless you’re registered democrat. For the primarys I only voted on a homestead tax issue and ignored the list of democrat presidential canidates entirely.

When the general election comes up, I will more than likely write in a pro-life canidate even though I don’t think he has a snowball’s chance in…I think you get my drift.

Even with that said, I will pray and beg all will pray for whoever is chosen.

Thank you!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Exactly right. Remember all of the people who stood by and did nothing during WWII while millions of people were killed by their own government? Sitting at home and doing nothing did not save lives. Those evil people were originally voted into office by someone.

I’m with you on this one Vern. We all have a responsibility to educate ourselves about the issues and candidates and to make our best informed decision. We may disagree on what that decision should be, but sitting home is not an option as a responsible citizen. As a minority woman, I am certainly not going to sit at home and waste the vote that people suffered and died for me to receive.

“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”

Amen. And let me point out that as Catholics, we are all minorities.

Our job is to fight evil in our own day, in out own arena. If we had fought harder, earlier, we would not be faced with the problem of abortion. We must now play catch-up ball, and deal with these great Life Issues.

 

[mford]

The principle “DO NO HARM” applies here. We must vote for the candidates who best represent our pro-life position and who have a realistic chance of being elected. To do otherwise could propell those into the White House and Congress who will dissmantle the pro-life work accomplished to date and nominate judges who will overturn the current laws protecting the unborn? The ‘other side’ isn’t considering a boycot or write-ins. They will come out in force to get their candidates and their agenda into elected office.

 

[stbruno]

Personally, I write in candidates who are pro-life on the ballot rather than not vote. It may not get to the candidates that I am dissatisfied with the choices, but believe me it gets counted somewhere and someone is watching this.

 

[SoCalRC]

I don’t see how killing unborn babies is different then killing adult minorities of any race or religion.

Nor does the Church:

"In effect the acknowledgment of the personal dignity of every human being demands the respect, the defence and the promotion of therights of the human person. It is a question of inherent, universal and inviolable rights. No one, no individual, no group, no authority, no State, can change-let alone eliminate-them because such rights find their source in God himself.

The inviolability of the person which is a reflection of the absolute inviolability of God, fínds its primary and fundamental expression in the inviolability of human life. Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights-for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.

The Church has never yielded in the face of all the violations that the right to life of every human being has received, and continues to receive, both from individuals and from those in authority. The human being is entitled to such rights, in every phase of development, from conception until natural death; and in every condition, whether healthy or sick, whole or handicapped, rich or poor. The Second Vatican Council openly proclaimed: <<All offences against life itself, such as every kind of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia and willful suicide; all violations of the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, physical and mental torture, undue psychological pressures; all offences against human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children, degrading working conditions where men are treated as mere tools for profit rather than free and responsible persons; all these and the like are certainly criminal: they poison human society; and they do more harm to those who practice them than those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator>>" - CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI

vatican.va/roman_curia//congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html

Notice that the definition of “right to life” is very broad indeed. But the quote at the end is from LUMEN GENTIUM, the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church via the Second Vatican Council.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

Ideally, we should wholly vote our faith, particularly on related teachings of grave importance. Certainly, this is what the Church advises:

“When political activity comes up against moral principles that do not admit of exception, compromise or derogation, the Catholic commitment becomes more evident and laden with responsibility. In the face of fundamental and inalienable ethical demands, Christians must recognize that what is at stake is the essence of the moral law, which concerns the integral good of the human person. This is the case with laws concerning…” - Congregation of the Doctrine of the Church, Catholics in Political Life

vatican.va/roman_curia//congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html

But wholly voting the nine examples that follow, or even the seven principles noted by the USCCB in its position paper on Faithful Citizenship (usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf) is extremely difficult. So a great many Catholics compromise. For example, CAF’s voters guide truncates the Vatican’s list of non-negotiable principles significantly, fully overlapping only two and dropping all references to social justice.

The compromsing presumably often occurs for laudable goals, like fighting what is individually perceived to be a ‘greater evil’, but it is compromise of faith none the less. So I chalk up attempts to argue that one form of compromise is more rightous than another to simple human nature. As Pope Benedict has noted, most of us can relate to the dutiful son (Luke 15:11-31), so we “would do well to heed the admonishment”.

 

[neophyte]

I am curious, why would a Catholic vote for a prochoice canidate?..

I’m pro-choice. I believe that a woman has the right to choose to have a child. She just doesn’t have the right to kill it after she chooses to make it.

Why would I vote for a pro-abortion candidate? I suppose if the only other candidate was pro-abortion and advocated murdering all of the Jews (or blacks, or whatever), I’d hold my nose and vote for the first. Unless I ran for the office myself.

 

[SoCalRC]

and who have a realistic chance of being elected.

The Church agrees that we must vote our faith, but I am not aware of any teaching that indicates we should be pragmatic.

Why should it be wrong to wholly trust in God? Is He not the source of all true power? Why put more faith in earthy constructs?

I understand why people feel as you do. Our own ‘political power’ is, as individuals, quite miniscule, but we want to ‘win’ in earthly terms. So even the tiny step of trusting God enough to wholly vote our faith can be very difficult.

 

[THurifer2]

The reason why some people can vote pro choice is becuase they do not see an unborn infant as “fully” human.

I have a sister who votes for pro-choice candidates almost always. She also says abortion is wrong. She insists that abortion should be the deciding issue. I asked her, " what if aldoph Hitler was against the death penalty for criminals and passionate about feeding the poor and meek. What if he still gassed the jews but otherwise had an unbelievable desire for free healthcare and an effective plan at stomping out poverty? what if he was compassionate about human rights? (except for the jews)

Of course she said that the gassing of the Jews was a horrible deed and no way could she vote for him etc. etc. I said but that is only one issue.

What do people think? Hitlers absolute atrocity resulted in the extermination of millions. Abortion rights has resulted in the exterminations of tens of millions.

I am not calling presidential candidates Hitler but it is clear to me that the unborn are not viewed to some as “wholly” human.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Why should it be wrong to wholly trust in God? Is He not the source of all true power? Why put more faith in earthy constructs?

Because He gave us dominion over the earth to live His way.

By your example one could construe that it was perfectly acceptable to pray for someone in danger but make no move to physically help that person. I don’t think God appreciates ‘inaction’.

 

[Monicathree]

We are actually starting a pro life action group at our parish. Basically, we will be handing out brochures about fetal development, facts on abortion, post abortive literature, euthanasia…all non political stuff. We just felt compelled to do this. We have cars in the parking lot with pro abortion candidates names on it. Last weekend an older lady came into mass with a pro abortion candidates sticker on her lapel …
It took a lot for me not to say anything. I already had a conversation with the lady who drives the pro abortion mobile. Again, very nice older lady. Of course she just equates abortion with the war and then went on an anti bush thing. I just told her to please look at the brochure I handed her, it was a graphic one, and realize that when you support this candidate, this is what you support.

There is a lack of education about all the facts…so we are going to get right out there with the facts and give it to our brothers and sisters with charity and love.

It makes me craaaaazyy though, and then it hurts my heart and then I realize that we must educate.

 

[BamaRider]

The topic for this thread was born out of the another thread, where the discussion was the State of the Union Address. Several folks lambasted the President, and announced they proudly casted votes for a known pro choice candidate.

After those individuals, announced on a public forum they voted for the candidate in the primary, and planned to again, it was assumed they didnt’t mind discussing how they came to that decesion. Wrong, when called out, it was demanded the thread be shut down, because it was off topic.

A tactic used by the very candidate these people voted for. They don’t answer tough questions, and if you do get one in, they jump up and down saying you shouldn’t be asking it, and demand the forum be shut down.

I’ve not been on this forum very long, but it has been my experience the moderators give us a pretty long leash.

It is obvious many Catholics vote pro choice, and I think the biggest reason driving that is their dislike of the President and the Repubs.

Some of the reasons I hear for the pro choice voice have been:

“the repubs are not really pro life, they just say that for votes”

“I’m not a one issue voter”

“Its complicated”

I’m lucky in that my candidates views on abortion, social issues, terrorism, and borders, all line up. But if I have to vote liberal on a issue to vote pro life, I’ll do it. If that is my choice, the abortion issue is going to trump the other things. I’ll put the guy in office, figuring whatever damage he does we can deal with it, because appointing a LIFETIME pro choice judge to the court, is hard to overcome.

Any time you say you hold your nose and vote pro choice, you risk that probablility. I can assure you, the 2 pro choice candidates in this current field, if given the oppurtunity, will put a judge in place to shoulder up Roe V Wade. I’d expect nothing less. When they say they’re pro choice I’m gonna take em at their word.

If you wanna stay home on this election, so be it, at least that way I know one of my fellow Catholics is not gonna cancel out MY pro life vote, which I can assure y’all is gonna be EVERYTIME.