Why Would A Catholic Vote For A ProChoice Canidate?

[vern_humphrey]

Those who see abortion as a political issue are simply missing the big picture. Too often we consider issues in a vacuum, like we live in some kind of bubble and no one else in other countries or ages have faced the same challenges.

Abortion is not just a problem in America, involving Democrats and Republicans or the left and the right, it is a problem all over the world, even in the few places where it is still illegal. Parties/ideologies/politicians did not invent the problem and they certainly cannot provide the answers. Focusing on them prevents us from finding real solutions that work.

Abortion is a symptom of illness of the soul, both of the individual and of society. Making it about politics and law just dilutes our efforts and polarizes people.

And how should we act to minimize or eliminate abortion, then?

Because to do nothing while some 40 to 50 million children a year die world-wide from abortion is surely a sin.

 

[mary_bobo]

There are those who purport to believe that “social programs” can somehow reduce the number of abortions – so voting for a pro-abortion candidate is justified if he supports the right “social programs.”

We have spent more money each year on social programs than any country in the world and I cannot see that it has helped much. We have pre-school programs, after school programs and on and on. Not much has improved. I think the money would be better spent in teaching children (and adults) that they are responsible for their own actions, that things they do have consequences and that can’t sit around and wait for someone else to do something for them. Social programs have done nothing to limit the number of abortions in our country and it was like pulling hen’s teeth to get the Congress to de-legitimize partial birth abortion. How anyone can support that hideous procedure is beyond me.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We have spent more money each year on social programs than any country in the world and I cannot see that it has helped much. We have pre-school programs, after school programs and on and on. Not much has improved. I think the money would be better spent in teaching children (and adults) that they are responsible for their own actions, that things they do have consequences and that can’t sit around and wait for someone else to do something for them.

That, unfortunately, is not possible. Here in Arkansas, for example, you cannot teach abstinence in schools – only birth control.

I have been chided on this very forum for not holding the opinion that drug and alcohol abuse is a defense for wrong-doing.

Social programs have done nothing to limit the number of abortions in our country and it was like pulling hen’s teeth to get the Congress to de-legitimize partial birth abortion. How anyone can support that hideous procedure is beyond me.

Well, for one thing, it’s considered “inappropriate” to show pictures of the result.

 

[dmelosi]

Those who see abortion as a political issue are simply missing the big picture. Too often we consider issues in a vacuum, like we live in some kind of bubble and no one else in other countries or ages have faced the same challenges.

Abortion is not just a problem in America, involving Democrats and Republicans or the left and the right, it is a problem all over the world, even in the few places where it is still illegal. Parties/ideologies/politicians did not invent the problem and they certainly cannot provide the answers. Focusing on them prevents us from finding real solutions that work.

Abortion is a symptom of illness of the soul, both of the individual and of society. Making it about politics and law just dilutes our efforts and polarizes people.

I agree that it is a symptom of illness of the soul. But the sickness starts when people allow it to start in this case. It is very easy to discuss this along party lines because the democratic platform states very clearly that it is pro abortion. The republican party states very clearly that it opposes abortion.

All other attempts to cloud the issue are simply those that cannot give up their party affiliation.

I am not saying that all republicans are pro life, but if people continue to listen to people justify the democratic platform, that erosion will continue until it gets to the point that those that oppose abortion are extremists…which is already starting to happen.

It is written in each of their platforms for all to see…

Democrats support and aggresively will fight to keep abortion legal.

Republicans oppose abortion.

 

[seekerz]

I agree that it is a symptom of illness of the soul. But the sickness starts when people allow it to start in this case. It is very easy to discuss this along party lines because the democratic platform states very clearly that it is pro abortion. The republican party states very clearly that it opposes abortion.

All other attempts to cloud the issue are simply those that cannot give up their party affiliation.

I am not saying that all republicans are pro life, but if people continue to listen to people justify the democratic platform, that erosion will continue until it gets to the point that those that oppose abortion are extremists…which is already starting to happen.

It is written in each of their platforms for all to see…

Democrats support and aggresively will fight to keep abortion legal.

Republicans oppose abortion.

I think you will find that other than traditional Catholics and Evangelicals, very few people (that includes Republicans) oppose abortion completely the way we do. Most people make exceptions for mother’s health or deformities of the baby.

So in approaching it as a political issue, we essentially have to compromise, whether we admit it or not. Personally, I have problems with the “lesser of two evils” approach - “slippery slope” is the phrase that comes to mind.

 

[rlg94086]

I think you will find that other than traditional Catholics and Evangelicals, very few people (that includes Republicans) oppose abortion completely the way we do. Most people make exceptions for mother’s health or deformities of the baby.

You are correct…the numbers are hard to determine, and it’s even more complicated than just the exceptions.

Pro-lifers include (my guesstimate):

1. No abortions period. No embryonic stem cell research. No IVF.
2. No abortions period, but IVF okay…no embryonic stem cell research.
3. No abortions period, but IVF okay and embryonic stem cell research okay.
4. Abortion in case of rape/incest only (this and the rest are IVF and embryonic stem cell research okay)
5. Abortion in case of rape/incest or mother’s health
6. Abortion in case of rape/incest/mother’s health/deformities of the baby.

Maybe it can be broken down even more, and I completely left out beliefs against contaception (much, much smaller group) and the death penalty which I don’t consider part of the pro-life movement (stance on that can vary across all six I listed).

When I am making a voting decision, I look for the one who is the most pro-life out of the two major candidates I have to choose from. I know many reject that philosophy, but it would be pretty rare for me to find someone who lines up 100% with my beliefs (i.e. 100% in line with the Church). If both choices are very pro-choice (i.e. unrestricted abortion), then I would probably not vote or go third party, but I can’t think of a time I had that issue.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Again I say some are so bent on getting the troop out of Iraq they are willing to overlook abortion and vote for the candidate who will bring the troops out.

 

[dmelosi]

I think you will find that other than traditional Catholics and Evangelicals, very few people (that includes Republicans) oppose abortion completely the way we do. Most people make exceptions for mother’s health or deformities of the baby.

So in approaching it as a political issue, we essentially have to compromise, whether we admit it or not. Personally, I have problems with the “lesser of two evils” approach - “slippery slope” is the phrase that comes to mind.

Democrats on their party platfrom promote abortion
Republicans on their party platform are against abortion

Too many people try to make it the lesser of two evils by clouding the issue with opinions on other what they call “life issues”

The fact is that if a persons party is democrat and they are not fighting in every way possible to change that politicians mind on abortion, then they whether they like or not, are supporting and promoting abortion.

A person whose party is republican needs to also fight to change that politicans mind on abortion, if they are not pro life or whether they like it or not, are supporting and promoting abortion.

democrats who do nothing but still stick to the party because they always have need to really hear

Democrats on their party platfrom promote abortion
Republicans on their party platform are against abortion

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think you will find that other than traditional Catholics and Evangelicals, very few people (that includes Republicans) oppose abortion completely the way we do. Most people make exceptions for mother’s health or deformities of the baby.

So in approaching it as a political issue, we essentially have to compromise, whether we admit it or not. Personally, I have problems with the “lesser of two evils” approach - “slippery slope” is the phrase that comes to mind.

I think you mistake “progress” for “compromise.”

If a million children a year are aborted in this country, and I can save one, I will do it. And continue to work – maybe I can save two next year.

 

[neophyte]

…Any time you say you hold your nose and vote pro choice, you risk that probablility. I can assure you, the 2 pro choice candidates in this current field, if given the oppurtunity, will put a judge in place to shoulder up Roe V Wade. I’d expect nothing less. When they say they’re pro choice I’m gonna take em at their word.

If you wanna stay home on this election, so be it, at least that way I know one of my fellow Catholics is not gonna cancel out MY pro life vote, which I can assure y’all is gonna be EVERYTIME.

I don’t thing you really got what I said in my post. Perhaps you could read it again.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Democrats support and aggresively will fight to keep abortion legal.

Sadly so.

Republicans oppose abortion.

To quote a famous right-wing talk radio personality: “Symbolism over substance.” (Oop! I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.) The ONLY reason many people vote Republican is because of the “pro-life plank” being tacked on. The Republican Party has absolutely NO interest in eliminating abortion because of this fact.

If I am forced to vote Republican this year that would be the ONLY reason. I absolutely despise a majority of Republican ideology because I see it as based in pride, anger, envy, gluttony and avarice. Truth is, if one of the Democratic candidates were pro-life I’d vote for them in a heartbeat, but I cannot and am forced to vote for someone I know could do untold damage to our country…all because they claim to be “pro-life.”

Absolutely DISGUSTING!

 

[stringbeanduck]

I’m proud of ya LCMS_No_More. As much as you disagree with the party you’re willing to vote the pro-life candidate.

 

[ribozyme]

Sadly so.

If I am forced to vote Republican this year that would be the ONLY reason. I absolutely despise a majority of Republican ideology because I see it as based in pride, anger, envy, gluttony and avarice. Truth is, if one of the Democratic candidates were pro-life I’d vote for them in a heartbeat, but I cannot and am forced to vote for someone I know could do untold damage to our country…all because they claim to be “pro-life.”

Absolutely DISGUSTING!

Some Republicans like Lincoln Chafee are overtly pro-abortion.

And some people accuse the Democrats as the ones who base their ideology on envy.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If I am forced to vote Republican this year that would be the ONLY reason. I absolutely despise a majority of Republican ideology because I see it as based in pride, anger, envy, gluttony and avarice. Truth is, if one of the Democratic candidates were pro-life I’d vote for them in a heartbeat, but I cannot and am forced to vote for someone I know could do untold damage to our country…all because they claim to be “pro-life.”

Absolutely DISGUSTING!

Legalized abortion is untold damage to our country. And tax-payer supported abortion would be even more damage.

And yes, it is disgusting.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I’m proud of ya LCMS_No_More. As much as you disagree with the party you’re willing to vote the pro-life candidate.

First, I have to vote for the person who insincerely claims pro-life but has no actual interest in eliminating abortion.

Further, the person voting after me isn’t glad. I tend to leave a mess all over the voting booth. It’s not pretty.

 

[vern_humphrey]

First, I have to vote for the person who insincerely claims pro-life but has no actual interest in eliminating abortion.

Further, the person voting after me isn’t glad. I tend to leave a mess all over the voting booth. It’s not pretty.

Wow! The hatred just radiates from that post!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Wow! The hatred just radiates from that post!

That implies that I want Republicans to die. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Republican ideology disgusts me. That’s not hatred, it’s a visceral reaction.

I wouldn’t expect you to recognize the difference. It’s one of those pearls Christ spoke of.

 

[vern_humphrey]

That implies that I want Republicans to die. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

It’s a lot closer to the truth than you admit.

Republican ideology disgusts me. That’s not hatred, it’s a visceral reaction.

“Visceral reaction” is another term for “hatred.”

You, yourself admit your feelings are driven by emotion (“visceral reaction”) and not by logic.

I wouldn’t expect you to recognize the difference. It’s one of those pearls Christ spoke of.

More hatred, eh?

 

[mary_bobo]

First, I have to vote for the person who insincerely claims pro-life but has no actual interest in eliminating abortion.

Further, the person voting after me isn’t glad. I tend to leave a mess all over the voting booth. It’s not pretty.

How crude!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

How crude!

How unrelated to the substance of what was said!