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CeaselessMedik
Guest
We’re pets, basically. “He” supposedly wants loving relationships,l but we must call him master and do the tricks he teaches us.
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ProdglArchitect
Guest
You really don’t seem to understand Catholic theology…
#1: We do not “call him Master.” We recognize his authority as the creator of the universe, and pay him appropriate homage.
#2: not sure what you mean by tricks.
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Razanir
Guest
Assuming these “tricks” are referring to the Ten Commandments, wouldn’t you give rules to your own kids? Or say someone’s dating an atheist. Don’t you think they’d agree on a rule not to bash each others’ religions to avoid offending each other? Similarly, God gave us the Ten Commandments as guidelines on how to not offend him. Of course He’ll love us either way, because so perfect is His Love, but it still reflects earthly relationships with boundaries. Or more accurately, our earthly relationships reflect His perfect Love.
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CeaselessMedik
Guest
Even people he sends to hell because they didn’t believe. And I didn’t mean you literally call him “Master.” “Lord,” “Shepherd,” etc.
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Razanir
Guest
I refer you to the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Anyone who turns away from God is like the Prodigal Son. If they die away from home, so be it, it’s their loss. But if they repent, turn to God and come home, they can spend eternity with the Father in Heaven. The important part of the story to remember is that the father in the parable never stopped loving the Prodigal Son.
[SIGN]MORAL OF THE STORY[/SIGN]
God NEVER (say it with me, NEVER) stops loving us. When we sin, it is US turning away from Him, NOT Him forcing us away. God is ALWAYS willing to welcome us back home.
meltzerboy
New member
Lesser than whom? According to Jewish belief, we are higher than any other creature except G-d Himself, including the angels, since we are the only beings who are given free will. G-d does not demand a loving relationship with us although He enables it. He allows us to choose to love Him, which makes our love so much stronger.
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Chatter163
Guest
He does not MAKE us love Him or live a moral life; we have free choice. He loves us so much that He gives us free choice. We are NOT pets or robots; we have the choice to love and serve Him or to reject Him. We have that choice because He gave it to us. Just as our own children may stray, so do God’s children. But He always welcomes them back. Can’t get any more loving than that.
And BTW, I have no problem calling Him Master. He is our Master. His disciples often called Him that.
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TimothyH
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Chatter163
Guest
“You call me Master, and Lord; and you say well, for so I am.” (John 13:13) :bowdown2:
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cornbread_r2
Guest
As I understand it, after the Final Judgement we’re reunited with our bodies and those in Hell will not only suffer from separation from God, but will also suffer physical torment for all eternity. God must sustain that physical place and those torments. In what way does that demonstrate love?
As I understand it, there is no chance for reconciliation after we die.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
But death is not “instant” (ie, there may be a few seconds after we “look dead”) where Jesus (who is outside of time) may show us our life and give us one last chance to choose Him. I don’t live my life as if this is true, but I deeply hope that it is.
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Little_Mary
Guest
Are you serious?
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cornbread_r2
Guest
OK then, after we’re really, really, REALLY dead, there is no chance for reconciliation – which contradicts the statement that “God is ALWAYS willing to welcome us back home”.
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grannymh
Guest
I do not mean to be disrespectful, but it sounds like you do not understand your own human nature. For example. “We’re pets, basically.” from post 1.
Since hopefully, I am mistaken, would you please share just what your own human nature is. Once you are able to do that, then most likely you will have an answer to the thread’s question, i.e., if you want an answer.
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SaintCephas
Guest
This question seems to make a very theatrical assertion and an absurd statement.
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Lochias
Guest
Having willfully turned away from God all his life, why would a dead man suddenly choose to be with Him for eternity? If a person can’t stand the sight, sound or even mention of God here on earth, how much more torturous would it be to have to be with Him in Heaven, and thereby see what they themselves had become without Him?
You also need to brush up heavily on your understanding of Catholic theology and eternity…you’re just going to keep running into walls like this if you don’t understand what you’re trying to argue.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
The word always presupposes time. No time in Heaven.
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HickmanJosh
Guest
Its a very complicated thing, one of Jesus’s main symbols of Himself and Heaven was one of a Bridegroom going to a wedding with his Bride (the Church), for instance the book of revelation climaxes with the Wedding feast of the Lamb.
Essentially the view that the Church teaches is that God made the world of His own accord out of nothingness (for His own purposes). But high up in those purposes was Love, to will the good of the other. And God IS Love, that is what Christ revealed, especially on Calvary. God calls us to the life giving exchange of Love. The Trinity itself is an exchange of Love, the Lover the Beloved and the Love between them (Father, Son and Holy spirit)
The world as we know it is one of death and change, competition and such. Yet God calls us to a non-competitive relationship which we cannot merit, only choose to accept.
Free will obviously features quite highly in this view, God permits us to do evil things because He wants our love freely given to Him, He did not build us as robots. Thus that must mean suffering exists in the world, but God being all Loving also means God only permits suffering that somehow works out to the ultimate good of humanity.
Note Christianity is one of the few religions (perhaps the only one) to propose a good reason as to why the world exists when it came from nothingness (Big Bang Theory), but also why a good God would allow suffering or create a universe in the first place. For the Jews and Muslims God is just loving, for the others they may not even propose an answer as to how the universe began out of nothingness.
And it centers around this voluntary Love, and the acceptance of Trust (Faith) in God.
Also note the existence of Hell is not merely some jail for bad people to be sent (though that plays a role) but it is rather yet another example of free will, we can Chose to Join God in eternity or we choose not to join Him.
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Agnostic_Batman
Guest
I think angels likely have free will. If they did not, then why was there a Fall? Lucifer became the devil, and many angels turned into his legion of demons.
meltzerboy
New member
That is the Christian belief, but Judaism, which does not adhere to the concept of original sin nor the revolt of Lucifer, has a different view.
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