Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses?

[tarboy]

I was visited by some Mormons, and after listening to them, I don’t understand why anyone would want to be a Mormon, except that they were born into it. They had no choice in the matter. But to convert to it. I would rather be an Orthodox or Catholic before being a Mormon, the Mormons have no spiritual tradition outside of outward prayer.

And I feel the same about Jehovah Witnesses as well. Why convert to these two group?

Outside of marriage, I think people convert because of the ‘Fruits of the Tree’ they observe. Same reason many people become Buddhist, Born Again, or join practically any other church.

 

[SteveVH]

If you want to look at it that way, then Mormonism also has a tradition. We have the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which are sacred scriptures of ancient origin; we have the Doctrine and Covenants, which is a series of revelations received as the Church was being organized and established, little by little setting out the organizational structure and liturgy of the Church; we have the writings and other documents of Joseph Smith, establishing guideline for various aspects of the Church. So in that sense of the term we also have a “tradition” as you claim to have.

The Catholic Church not only survived, but flourished in the first few centuries, at a time when the majority of the population was illiterate, all manuscripts were hand written and none of the sacred texts had yet been canonized. It flourished without any of the New Testament for several centuries. The church flourished because it possessed the fullness of truth and was not dependent upon any written documentation. The fullness of the truth was past on orally by the Apostles and those they ordained as bishops.

If every Bible were destroyed tomorrow, the Catholic Church would still possess the fullness of truth, in the very life of the Church, in its liturgies, in its acts of charity, in its treasury of holy writings. The LDS Church cannot come close to making such a claim, primarily because it has no claim to apostolic succession. Instead it proclaims members of its own church as “apostles”. Catholic truth comes from the twelve Apostles, who Christ promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit. Mormon truth comes from the claim of a man named Joseph Smith
a little over 150 years ago. Sorry, Mormon tradition is not in the same hemisphere as Catholic Tradition.

 

[mathonihah]

I don’t think anyone here is claiming Mormons have no traditions. (And there are quite a few Mormon to Catholic converts on this board.) SteveH and others were trying to help you understand what you dismissed as “pomp and ceremony”. And by arguing about the Church’s virtues not necessarily being true just because they’re “really old”, you’re arguing against a point that was never made.

Let us not lose sight of the OP, who argued against joining Mormonism on the grounds that “the Mormons have no spiritual tradition outside of outward prayer.” I was trying to point out that that was a misguided way of judging Mormonism. I was not questioning the value or validity of the Catholic Tradition.

 

[mathonihah]

Uh, ancient origin huh? 180 years aint ancient. LOL, joe smith and his prophecies that never came true? How about doctrine that has been changed or “it wasnt doctrine, its a teaching”? The b.o.m? I like fiction just as much as the next guy. And the Bible, which Bible? Your KJB mormon edition? For a religion that says “only if its translated correctly” you sure got me fooled. A bible that was being used before without alterations to it then it is changed. What does Revelations say about this? Or how about believing in another Gospel when the Bible clearly states not to recieve or listen to it?

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But I as a Mormon believe that “Joe Smith” was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a book of scripture of ancient origin. Your mocking of my religious beliefs is not going to change that reality for me.

 

[mathonihah]

Outside of marriage, I think people convert because of the ‘Fruits of the Tree’ they observe. Same reason many people become Buddhist, Born Again, or join practically any other church.

I am sure there are many reasons why people convert to a religion; but from my point of view the most logical reason would have to be that its claims are true. That was the reason for my joining Mormonism.

 

[mathonihah]

The Catholic Church not only survived, but flourished in the first few centuries, at a time when the majority of the population was illiterate, all manuscripts were hand written and none of the sacred texts had yet been canonized. It flourished without any of the New Testament for several centuries. The church flourished because it possessed the fullness of truth and was not dependent upon any written documentation. The fullness of the truth was past on orally by the Apostles and those they ordained as bishops.

If every Bible were destroyed tomorrow, the Catholic Church would still possess the fullness of truth, in the very life of the Church, in its liturgies, in its acts of charity, in its treasury of holy writings. The LDS Church cannot come close to making such a claim, primarily because it has no claim to apostolic succession. Instead it proclaims members of its own church as “apostles”. Catholic truth comes from the twelve Apostles, who Christ promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit. Mormon truth comes from the claim of a man named Joseph Smith
a little over 150 years ago. Sorry, Mormon tradition is not in the same hemisphere as Catholic Tradition.

I still don’t know why you guys are jumping on me as though I was questioning or criticising the Catholic Tradition. I was not. I was simply responding to the OP, who argued against accepting Mormonism on the grounds that “the Mormons have no spiritual tradition outside of outward prayer.” I was simply pointing out that that was a misguided way of judging Mormonism.

 

[Robot_Maria]

Let us not lose sight of the OP, who argued against joining Mormonism on the grounds that “the Mormons have no spiritual tradition outside of outward prayer.”

Oh, I see. My apologies then.

I was not questioning the value or validity of the Catholic Tradition.

Well, you sort of were. When you stated that a religion may have been true when it started, but not true anymore, you were calling out Catholicism and mainline Protestantism as false religions after Joseph Smith formed his church. You didn’t state specifics so you can give yourself wiggle room, but we’re intelligent people. We know what you’re doing.

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But I as a Mormon believe that “Joe Smith” was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a book of scripture of ancient origin. Your mocking of my religious beliefs is not going to change that reality for me.

I actually agree with you on that. I’m personally put off when people disparage another’s religion to their metaphorical faces. I wouldn’t shout “XENU!” to some poor Sea Org member offering free personality tests at Walmart, so I won’t be needlessly offensive to you here.

But while you’re on your spiritual journey I’d like for you to reflect on your conversion. What were your religious beliefs before you converted? What was your station in life? Were you having a personal issues? Were you dating an LDS member? Are you a salt of the earth kind of person? What did you know about Catholicism, Christian Orthodoxy, Judaism or Islam? Had you read the bible? Do you have a blue collar job? Are you put off by frivolity and pomp as a matter of personal taste?

I know these sound like weird questions. And I’m most certainly not expecting you to answer them to me or anyone else. But answer them for yourself and think about your first post on this thread, and think about your conversion, and think about how it might all tie in together. God bless!

 

[arabic_catholic]

like anyone who wanted to be a muslim … its just a bunch of religion that came later , and who claimed that the original message was corrupted and God resurrected the right message

 

[mathonihah]

Well, you sort of were. When you stated that a religion may have been true when it started, but not true anymore, you were calling out Catholicism and mainline Protestantism as false religions after Joseph Smith formed his church. You didn’t state specifics so you can give yourself wiggle room, but we’re intelligent people. We know what you’re doing.

I suppose you do have a point there! As a Mormon I do believe that mainstream Christianity has gone wrong along the way somewhere. But that does not mean that it has no redeeming value whatsoever. To the extent that it is able to engender faith in Christ, trust in the redeeming power of his Atonement, and a knowledge of his gospel, it has redeeming value.

I actually agree with you on that. I’m personally put off when people disparage another’s religion to their metaphorical faces. I wouldn’t shout “XENU!” to some poor Sea Org member offering free personality tests at Walmart, so I won’t be needlessly offensive to you here.

Thank you!

But while you’re on your spiritual journey I’d like for you to reflect on your conversion. What were your religious beliefs before you converted? What was your station in life? Were you having a personal issues? Were you dating an LDS member? Are you a salt of the earth kind of person? What did you know about Catholicism, Christian Orthodoxy, Judaism or Islam? Had you read the bible? Do you have a blue collar job? Are you put off by frivolity and pomp as a matter of personal taste?

I know these sound like weird questions. And I’m most certainly not expecting you to answer them to me or anyone else. But answer them for yourself and think about your first post on this thread, and think about your conversion, and think about how it might all tie in together. God bless!

Thank you also; but my testimony of the restored gospel is deeper than to be swayed by such introspections.

 

[eamonnroma]

—Quote (Originally by Robot Maria)—
Personally, I find LDS apologetics fascinating for this very reason. A few years back I was perusing an ex-LDS website that had lots of gripping stories. I read of one account where a missionary lost his LDS faith after reading about the Adam-God doctrine. As in, he had no idea it ever existed before some guy whose door he knocked on told him about it.

This is true. Many Mormon missionaries, while be good people, are usually very young and they know little about their faith. They know how to teach what they are taught to teach. For instance many of them do not know that, according to Mormonism, God is a physical being (we are made in God’s likeness) and lives on a planet near to Kolob.

 

[kimg901]

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But I as a Mormon believe that “Joe Smith” was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a book of scripture of ancient origin. Your mocking of my religious beliefs is not going to change that reality for me.

To tell you the truth, I dont really care what it does for you but I do care what it does to your soul. You have been decieved like so many others that follow the lds religion. For me mocking your religion, yes. Only because I was once fooled like you. Nothing in the b.o.m is true. There is no type of evidence that backs up the books claims or its writer. Perhaps you should investigate its claims too before your soul is damned (thats if you really care for it and your loved ones)

 

[kimg901]

—Quote (Originally by Robot Maria)—
Personally, I find LDS apologetics fascinating for this very reason. A few years back I was perusing an ex-LDS website that had lots of gripping stories. I read of one account where a missionary lost his LDS faith after reading about the Adam-God doctrine. As in, he had no idea it ever existed before some guy whose door he knocked on told him about it.

This is true. Many Mormon missionaries, while be good people, are usually very young and they know little about their faith. They know how to teach what they are taught to teach. For instance many of them do not know that, according to Mormonism, God is a physical being (we are made in God’s likeness) and lives on a planet near to Kolob.

Their god is not ony of the flesh, but a sinner and had intercourse with Mary. I guess their god has urges too

 

[Stephen168]

I am sure there are many reasons why people convert to a religion; but from my point of view the most logical reason would have to be that its claims are true. That was the reason for my joining Mormonism.

I suppose you do have a point there! As a Mormon I do believe that mainstream Christianity has gone wrong along the way somewhere. But that does not mean that it has no redeeming value whatsoever. To the extent that it is able to engender faith in Christ, trust in the redeeming power of his Atonement, and a knowledge of his gospel, it has redeeming value.
Thank you also; but my testimony of the restored gospel is deeper than to be swayed by such introspections.

You reject introspection, yet you “know” that Mormonism is true and Christianity is wrong. How do you know what true means; what is true? Is it true that the BoM is the story about where all the aboriginal people of North America came from? Is it true that the New Testament is a first century document? Is it true that BoM is a 19th century document? In what way is the New Testament true? Was the Mormon Church true when it practiced polygamy or when it banned blacks from their priesthood? Is the New Testament true because the Catholic Church says it is true? How is the Mormon Church changing doctrine different from the Catholic Church changing doctrine? Did the Mormon Church restore doctrine or invent new doctrine; and is there historical proof?

I would want reasoned (science, history, logical) answers to these questions to know what is true. Feelings are not always from the Holy Ghost.

 

[mathonihah]

To tell you the truth, I dont really care what it does for you but I do care what it does to your soul. You have been decieved like so many others that follow the lds religion. For me mocking your religion, yes. Only because I was once fooled like you. Nothing in the b.o.m is true. There is no type of evidence that backs up the books claims or its writer. Perhaps you should investigate its claims too before your soul is damned (thats if you really care for it and your loved ones)

Thank you; but I don’t think there is anything I could say that would persuade you, nor anything that you could say that would persuade me, so I don’t see much point in continuing the discussion.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thank you; but I don’t think there is anything I could say that would persuade you, nor anything that you could say that would persuade me, so I don’t see much point in continuing the discussion.

In the face of real, tangible, evidence, perhaps what we see is your feelings don’t align to reality. So, I can’t say the idea is persuasion, but an attempt to draw out an answer to the OP. To say “I feel”, is not a rational response, but one that can be given for any number of things to believe, based on feeling. If we perceive that your feelings don’t align to reality, then the idea here is, you should be able to explain how those feelings do align to reality.

God created us as rational creatures, able to reason, and so it is evident to us that rational thought and feelings don’t need to be in conflict. Quite the opposite, we don’t believe God is such a trickster as to want us to believe for the sake of believing, only based on a feeling, while ignoring reason.

Feelings are very subjective, which is what a delve into one’s life and circumstances helps to flesh out. What is subjective and what is objective.

For myself, the object of by my faith is Jesus Christ. Not a book that I feel good about.

 

[robwar]

like anyone who wanted to be a muslim … its just a bunch of religion that came later , and who claimed that the original message was corrupted and God resurrected the right message

Yes, this is a red herring question and rather curious from a Muslim, since both sects deny the trinity just like Islam.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Yes, this is a red herring question and rather curious from a Muslim, since both sects deny the trinity just like Islam.

The commonality is, both adhere to a “prophet”, and both believe in that prophet first, above everything else. Each prophet producing scripture, with claims of divine providence for that scripture.

I agree, the original question could be broadened to include Islam, and any restorationist religion.

 

[SteveVH]

I still don’t know why you guys are jumping on me as though I was questioning or criticising the Catholic Tradition. I was not. I was simply responding to the OP, who argued against accepting Mormonism on the grounds that “the Mormons have no spiritual tradition outside of outward prayer.” I was simply pointing out that that was a misguided way of judging Mormonism.

I am certainly not jumping on you because I thought you were criticizing Catholic Tradition. Its just that you were attempting to make a comparison between so-called Mormon tradition and Catholic Tradition. They just are not the same thing at all. That is all I was trying to point out. d You did not seem to have a grasp of what is meant by Sacred Tradition.

 

[mathonihah]

Where is this Sufi guy anyways? He has started the thread and then disappeared. Not very courteous to forum members is it, to start a thread and then disappear! If he is not interested in the subject, why did he start the discussion?

 

[Stephen168]

Where is this Sufi guy anyways? He has started the thread and then disappeared. Not very courteous to forum members is it, to start a thread and then disappear! If he is not interested in the subject, why did he start the discussion?

Or, he got his answer in the first 20 posts. I know I did.