Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses?

[TheIrishman]

Speaking of Methodists, what do Mormons have against grape juice? Methodists offer little cubes of bread and grape juice for their communion, but Mormons only offer bread and water.

absolutely nothing, there’s actually a scripture in D&C that tells us that we can basically use whatever we want. We just use water because it’s easily accessible and its symbolic of the purity found in Christ. Basically water is the purest liquid accessible. But if water isn’t easily accessible, then they can use grape juice or what-have you.

In fact, LDS sacraments can even use wine, HOWEVER, the church has to be in charge of the growing and bottling process. water is just more easily accessible and many Mormons like the symbolism of pure water to pure Jesus.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

absolutely nothing, there’s actually a scripture in D&C that tells us that we can basically use whatever we want. We just use water because it’s easily accessible and its symbolic of the purity found in Christ. Basically water is the purest liquid accessible. But if water isn’t easily accessible, then they can use grape juice or what-have you.

In fact, LDS sacraments can even use wine, HOWEVER, the church has to be in charge of the growing and bottling process. water is just more easily accessible and many Mormons like the symbolism of pure water to pure Jesus.

That’s weird since Jesus specifically used wine and bread, not water.

 

[TheIrishman]

That’s weird since Jesus specifically used wine and bread, not water.

Doctrine and Covenants 27: 2-5

2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;

4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;

 

[TheIrishman]

Also another reason why it changed was because the wine that was being purchased for the sacrament was being poisened, and the fields that grew the wine for the church were destroyed so the elders sat down and asked God what they should do for the sacrament. Thats when D&C 27 came around

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Doctrine and Covenants 27: 2-5

2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;

4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;

Well that’s about as clear as mud! Could you interpret it for me?

 

[TheIrishman]

Well that’s about as clear as mud! Could you interpret it for me?

haha basically its saying this

1. Use whatever type of bread and beverage you want
2. Just remember that the bread represents Christ’s body and the beverage represents Christ Blood
3. Stop buying Wine from strangers( they were poisoning the wine to try and get rid of the LDS people).
4. Don’t focus on if its pita, tortilla’s, or wonderbread. Wine, water, 7up or (insert favorite drink here). Just focus on what it represents.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

haha basically its saying this

1. Use whatever type of bread and beverage you want
2. Just remember that the bread represents Christ’s body and the beverage represents Christ Blood
3. Stop buying Wine from strangers( they were poisoning the wine to try and get rid of the LDS people).
4. Don’t focus on if its pita, tortilla’s, or wonderbread. Wine, water, 7up or (insert favorite drink here). Just focus on what it represents.

Wow that’s interesting about the poisoned wine - yikes! Mormons really did get bad treatment back then.

 

[TheIrishman]

Wow that’s interesting about the poisoned wine - yikes! Mormons really did get bad treatment back then.

Well, at the same time its understandable (to an extent, not the poisoning and shooting mormons thing but the persecutions and driving away mormons from town thing).

How would you feel if someone came to your town, or HOME even and basically bashed your religion down and said that it was an abomination in God’s eye. Naturally, you would treat this person like a demon (figuratively of course) and drive them away.

 

[kimg901]

Doctrine and Covenants 27: 2-5

2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;

4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;

I understand thats from the D&C, but where in the Holy Bible does it say?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Well, at the same time its understandable (to an extent, not the poisoning and shooting mormons thing but the persecutions and driving away mormons from town thing).

How would you feel if someone came to your town, or HOME even and basically bashed your religion down and said that it was an abomination in God’s eye. Naturally, you would treat this person like a demon (figuratively of course) and drive them away.

I know there was a lot of phobia, because they came in a basically took over some places in the Midwest and the people who were there first became the minority.

Actually the personalities of the people running the Mormon churches back then are the most interesting thing about that religion to me. There was one guy who split off from the main group and declare himself King!

terrypepper.com/lights/closeups/strang/strang.htm

 

[kimg901]

I know there was a lot of phobia, because they came in a basically took over some places in the Midwest and the people who were there first became the minority.

Actually the personalities of the people running the Mormon churches back then are the most interesting thing about that religion to me. There was one guy who split off from the main group and declare himself King!

terrypepper.com/lights/closeups/strang/strang.htm

How about smith claiming he did more for the church than Jesus and His Apostles?

 

[TheIrishman]

I understand thats from the D&C, but where in the Holy Bible does it say?

It’s not in the Bible.

But i do find it interesting that the Bible does say this in 1 Timothy 5:23

23 You should give up drinking only water and have a little wine for the sake of your digestion and the frequent bouts of illness that you have.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It’s not in the Bible.

But i do find it interesting that the Bible does say this in 1 Timothy 5:23

23 You should give up drinking only water and have a little wine for the sake of your digestion and the frequent bouts of illness that you have.

I agree with Timothy.

 

[TheIrishman]

How about smith claiming he did more for the church than Jesus and His Apostles?

Well, it’s actually in D&C as this

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it” (D&C 135:3)

 

[kimg901]

It’s not in the Bible.

But i do find it interesting that the Bible does say this in 1 Timothy 5:23

23 You should give up drinking only water and have a little wine for the sake of your digestion and the frequent bouts of illness that you have.

Ah! Some more wine than water huh? Party time!!! JK. The water then was probably a little more dirty than the wine.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

How about smith claiming he did more for the church than Jesus and His Apostles?

Oh yeah, they were some larger-than-life personalities! That Brigham Young was no sloucher either.

 

[TheIrishman]

I agree with Timothy.

That’s a good person to agree with

 

[kimg901]

Oh yeah, they were some larger-than-life personalities! That Brigham Young was no sloucher either.

No he wasnt. My wifes dad and so on have a direct lineage to BY. They have alot of writings they will not let go of.

 

[zaffiroborant]

As the highlighted passage shows, that was a reference to what it calls the “professors”. It means the ministers, preachers, activists of the respective churches; not the churches themselves. It refers to those who were trying to “build up churches unto themselves,” as the Lord has said elsewhere. By “their creeds” is also meant the same thing. It is referring to those “professors,” not the churches themselves. And interestingly, they were all Protestant churches, not Catholic. The Catholic Church itself was a persecuted minority in America in those days.

That is nonsense, professor does not mean "ministers, preachers, activists of the respective churches; not the churches themselves. It refers to those who were trying to “build up churches unto themselves”. From Webster’s on-line:

Definition of PROFESSOR
1
: one that professes, avows, or declares
2
a : a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education
b : a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school
c : one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill

From Webster’s 1828 dictionary also on-line:

PROFESS’OR, n. [L.] One who makes open declaration of his sentiments or opinions; particularly, one who makes a public avowal of his belief in the Scriptures and his faith in Christ, and thus unites himself to the visible church.

1. One that publicly teaches any science or branch of learning; particularly, an officer in a university, college or other seminary, whose business is to read lectures or instruct students in a particular branch of learning; as a professor of theology or mathematics.

The primary definition then and now is someone who avows or declares, that is exactly what all Christians do when they recite the creed. So in a sentence that calls creeds abominations and professors corrupt, it is obvious that the first definition of professor is being used. I’ve seen many LDS contort this sentence as you have done here, but no where has anyone ever shown JS explaining it in the way you and so many others have. So until there is an explanation from JS it stands as calling all who profess a creed corrupt and believe in an abomination. As Rebecca pointed out we believers are the church, so that line is calling both the members and churches corrupt and their beliefs and abomination.

I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

 

[TexanKnight]

We think that the Restoration is an act of God, not of man. It was God who restored his Church after it had apostatized.

And this is exactly why the LDS god is weak, dishonest and cruel