Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses?

[mathonihah]

U-huh. David Koresh, Heaven’s Gate, Jim Jones would all say to you…

Oh wait! Where are they now?

If that is your idea of the testimony of the Holy Ghost, then you have something more serious to worry about than Mormonism.

 

[Stephen168]

No scientific data can prove the Book of Mormon false.

I was talking about Joseph Smith. He has been proven to have lied.

By the witness of the Holy Ghost.

I think it is very clear at this point that you are not able or willing to actual respond. Very sad.

 

[Stephen168]

If that is your idea of the testimony of the Holy Ghost, then you have something more serious to worry about than Mormonism.

All their followers made the same claim you are making. They felt their feelings were true, because they felt they were true.

 

[twopekinguys]

You are being evasive. You understand perfectly well what I am talking about.

Pot meet kettle

 

[twopekinguys]

It is one of the fastest growing religions in the world.

Actually, that is not true.

Mormons over reported membership in Brazil by at least 1 million.

Also, your own GA in charge of membership is on record stating that the mormon church is bleeding members. (paraphrased)

You really should check up on things before you make statements like that.

 

[twopekinguys]

No scientific data can prove the Book of Mormon false.

By the witness of the Holy Ghost.

A word of friendly advice. If all you do is bare your testimony, you’re probably going to get reported for proseltyzing, and failure to engage in debate.

I would try to answer the questions if you want to stick around.

Just trying to help you out.

 

[mathonihah]

It does not refer to a specific time and select group, these words are still used today to explain the so called great apostasy. If creeds were an abomination and those who profess them corrupt then, the creeds are still an abomination and those who currently profess them are corrupt.

It does refer to a specific time. By “creeds” is not meant necessarily the ancient creeds of Christendom; but the Protestant creeds of the time, especially of those particular denominations.

 

[zaffiroborant]

It is one of the fastest growing religions in the world.

Maybe you should read something more current, like a recent Pew survey or your own fellow LDS member David G. Stewart. Here’s a link to something he wrote on church growth.

 

[mathonihah]

the heavenly father did not have a heavenly father? where did he come from?

We do not know where he came from. Mormon scripture says that he was eternally God.

according to mormon teachings is this planet the only world where physical, mortal human beings exist?

No. There are many such inhabited planets; and they all worship the same God the Father (and the Son) that we worship.

i thought the mormons teach that Jesus was incarnated by the heavenly father having coitus with the Virgin Mary?

That is false. It is not a Mormon teaching.

is the physical appearance of the mormon’s holy spirit male or female or something else?

The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, and is male.

 

[zaffiroborant]

It does refer to a specific time. By “creeds” is not meant necessarily the ancient creeds of Christendom; but the Protestant creeds of the time, especially of those particular denominations.

Please provide something showing he meant Protestant creeds of the time and a reference showing those creeds.

 

[mathonihah]

It is not the equivalent to theosis, read Jordan Vajda’s thesis on theosis and exaltation. It’s available on the BYU website here.

Or close to it.

 

[Stephen168]

Would you judge Catholicism by the testimony of Catholic apostates who have left the Catholic Church and now find fault with it from the sidelines?

What do you mean by testimony? It seems like such an odd word to use.

 

[LivingWaters7]

We do not know where he came from. Mormon scripture says that he was eternally God.

This is true. The LDS Standard Works (Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants) all state in some fashion that God is eternally God.

However, throughout the history of the LDS Church, various prophets, apostles, and other church authorities, including Joseph Smith, have taught that the God the Father was not always God, that He progressed to Godhood, and that we can follow His example and attain Godhood.

 

[mathonihah]

Oh! You’ve provided an example. Let’s look at what Paul is saying in context. If you look at verses 13-15:

13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach?
15 And how can people preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring [the] good news!”

So the reason here is given! Jesus Christ, which is the reason for our faith, and it is who we speak of when we are prepared to give reason for our hope. As Jesus Christ is hope. He is the reason.

What is the good news that is being preached and what reasons would you believe, or not believe?

I agree Jesus is the reason for our hope. But it is the Holy Ghost that bears witness to us of the Father and the Son. It is by means of that witness that I know that Jesus is the Son of God; and by the same witness I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

 

[mathonihah]

i understand that you base your faith on what you perceive to be the holy spirit’s testimony to you.

however, if it is truly the Holy Spirit testifying, then what it causes you to believe should be rational, consistent and supported by evidence a human being can perceive and understand.

the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and cannot mislead. one of the ways people discern the testimony of the Holy Spirit is by how the testimony conforms to the reality of this world as well as to the Sacrificial Will of Jesus Christ.

the testimony which claims to be of the Holy Spirit must be tested. it must be tested by reality, by facts, by logic, by history, by science and by reason. if the testimony is of the Holy Spirit, it will be confirmed by all of the many facets (knowledge, wisdom, understanding, science, logic, reason, etc.) of reality.

the testimony of the Holy Spirit to finite and fallible human beings does not stand apart from all that makes us human. it does not stand alone. it stands along with this world in which we live. it cannot contradict what we know to be true through other faculties.

If that were true, nobody could believe in the resurrection; because it is completely contrary to science, reality, or experience.

 

[mathonihah]

I was talking about Joseph Smith. He has been proven to have lied.

I don’t believe that such a thing has been proved.

I think it is very clear at this point that you are not able or willing to actual respond. Very sad.

I think I am responding quite well, thank you. Sorry that it does not meet your expectations.

 

[twopekinguys]

Maybe you should read something more current, like a recent Pew survey or your own fellow LDS member David G. Stewart. Here’s a link to something he wrote on church growth.

That link contains some great information.

 

[mathonihah]

All their followers made the same claim you are making. They felt their feelings were true, because they felt they were true.

Then they were not receiving the testimony of the Holy Ghost—nor claiming to—were they.

 

[SteveVH]

It does refer to a specific time. By “creeds” is not meant necessarily the ancient creeds of Christendom; but the Protestant creeds of the time, especially of those particular denominations.

What Protestant creeds? Are you saying that the ancient creeds such as the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed are acceptable to the LDS Church? Of course they aren’t. These, the creeds of the ancient Church, created to preserve and define the faith given to it by the Apostles, is considered an abomination by your church. This is what is so strange. The LDS claim to be a restoration of the ancient Church and yet find its creeds, a summation of its beliefs, an abomination. When the restoration looks nothing like the original, something is very wrong.

Wow, I was just on this thread yesterday and it has already doubled in size since then. Amazing.

 

[mathonihah]

A word of friendly advice. If all you do is bare your testimony, you’re probably going to get reported for proseltyzing, and failure to engage in debate.

I would try to answer the questions if you want to stick around.

Just trying to help you out.

I am just giving honest answers to the questions I am being asked. I know that the Book of Mormon is true by the testimony of the Holy Ghost, and that is all there is to it. If you guys want to ask me that question a million times, the answer will still be the same.