Why would EF be considered less social?

[MagdalenaRita]

Family… just sat in a pew watching a nice TLM, listening to Gregorian chant, and so on… while their kids climbed and struggled to sit still (for lack of something relatable to do)… overall - the mass, scripture and so on would lose a lot of its relevance… all they would have would really be the Eucharist to receive

What do say to those moms who are up and down in and out of the OF of the Mass due to wiggly and crying kids? Sometimes all we get is the Eucharist and sometimes dont even get that.

There are missals to follow along in a TLM

usually seems to draw eccentrics who want to somehow differentiate themselves, like the pharisee who was glad not to be the tax collector…

A pharasee attitude can be found in most everyone. It’s called “the pharisee in me”. They are not found only in the EF.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I do not believe the EF is any less friendly than the OF. People are people and you will find friendliness and unfriendliness everywhere.
You can see that by just some of the comments in this thread. Some are from people who attend the OF and some are from people who attend the EF.

It is probably a good idea not to listen to those who categorize people.

 

[jesusmademe]

The more ordinary form of any Catholics life today is someone who lives in a society where Latin and Gregorian Chants are not the norm; and, therefore, there is need to be able to relate the scripture to their lives when dealing with other people, including non-Catholics, who also normally dont speak Latin.

And some of us need Gregorian chant. In my case I even study it.
I just do not get why fewer Priest say the EF Mass. Why can’t we have 50% OF and 50% EF?

 

[jesusmademe]

I can hit high C if I am warmed up properly. It is not really that hard.

 

[Aquinas11]

EF = less socializing during Mass, more socializing after Mass

OF = more socializing during Mass, less socializing after Mass

That’s my experience. When I attend EF at TLM parish, you can hear a pin drop in the Church for the entire 90 minutes. After Priest and altar serves leave the altar, the entire congregation kneels in silence for 5-10 minutes. Nobody is running to exits to drive away in haste. Then after 10 minutes, people slowly walk to exits and usually gather in social call for coffee, food, etc or there is usually young adult, men, women meeting afterward to connect with each other. At OF parish I attend, when people leave, about 90% of them head to their car and drive off. At TLM Parish I attend, about 10% head to their car right when mass is over and drive away. Just my observation. At times, the Priest at OF parish will announce there is coffee/donuts/etc and then you’ll see more people stay after mass, but even then most will still leave and head straight to parking lot. There is also a lot of people at TLM Parish approaching and talking to new comers. On my first visit, someone approached me and asked me if I was new, he then led me to bookstore and gave me a few introductory books and just gave them to me (I found out later they were 2 books $5 each, I didn’t know at time but he just paid $10 of his own money so I had some reading material). Why did someone do that for me at my first visit to EF Mass at TLM Parish if its less social?

 

[choose_to_love]

“tends to appeal to people on the fringe” A) what is your evidence for this statement B) what is your definition of ‘on the fringe’ for this comment, in context?

“a lot of younger folks are attracted to it for this reason” again, A) what is your evidence for this statement?

“seems to draw eccentrics who want to differentiate themselves, like the pharisee” A) define ‘eccentrics’ as you mean it in your comment here, in context. B) how do you know what those who go to the EF want to do, unless you have asked them or have some other evidence that supports your statement?

 

[CTBcin]

In being the “Extraordinary Form” now, it also tends to appeal to people on the fringe - as if it were somehow more exotic than something that has been effectively in practice all along.

There certainly is some truth to that. Although there’s plenty of good, normal people who simply like the beauty in it that they may not always get to experience otherwise. I’d hesitate to say that the majority of EF people have a “holier than thou” mentality, though it does exist.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

You didnt even have the guts to address the person to whom you cast the stone by name.

Because I wasn’t addressing you. If you feel you belong to that category than I find you absurd. Done

I will happily ignore the rest for the pap and nonsense it was.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

It usually seems to draw eccentrics who want to somehow differentiate themselves, like the pharisee who was glad not to be the ta collector…

Its great that people want to do great things for God… It’s also profoundly sad when they think they’re doing everything right, only to miss the mark completely by striving for obscurity…

I find this attitude frequently among the more rabid devotees of the new mass. It’s quite strange. There are others among your ilk on these forums who like to claim that EF mass attendees are practically schismatic. We’re very fortunate you’re all here to keep people safe.

 

[phil19034]

EF = less socializing during Mass, more socializing after Mass

OF = more socializing during Mass, less socializing after Mass

That’s my experience. When I attend EF at TLM parish, you can hear a pin drop in the Church for the entire 90 minutes. After Priest and altar serves leave the altar, the entire congregation kneels in silence for 5-10 minutes. Nobody is running to exits to drive away in haste. Then after 10 minutes, people slowly walk to exits and usually gather in social call for coffee, food, etc or there is usually young adult, men, women meeting afterward to connect with each other. At OF parish I attend, when people leave, about 90% of them head to their car and drive off. At TLM Parish I attend, about 10% head to their car right when mass is over and drive away. Just my observation. At times, the Priest at OF parish will announce there is coffee/donuts/etc and then you’ll see more people stay after mass, but even then most will still leave and head straight to parking lot. There is also a lot of people at TLM Parish approaching and talking to new comers. On my first visit, someone approached me and asked me if I was new, he then led me to bookstore and gave me a few introductory books and just gave them to me (I found out later they were 2 books $5 each, I didn’t know at time but he just paid $10 of his own money so I had some reading material). Why did someone do that for me at my first visit to EF Mass at TLM Parish if its less social?

My experience is similar. My local OF parish has donut Sunday 4-6 times a year (only after the 9AM Sunday Mass). But the donuts are in the narthex and most just take the donuts to go.

While the local EF parish (FSSP) has a full potluck brunch after every Sunday Mass, every week. A few hundred sit and enjoy brunch every Sunday and talk with different people each week.

 

[Elf01]

I find this attitude frequently among the more rabid devotees of the new mass. It’s quite strange. There are others among your ilk on these forums who like to claim that EF mass attendees are practically schismatic. We’re very fortunate you’re all here to keep people safe.

While I do think that about the SSPX I don’t about a canonically regular order.

I do have issues with those that prefer the EF impling that the OF is objectivally inferior.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

I just do not get why fewer Priest say the EF Mass. Why can’t we have 50% OF and 50% EF?

Because the Latin mass was practically suppressed for two decades (a generation). I suspect it would have been difficult to get it going without that. The majority of seminaries don’t teach priests how to say the traditional mass.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

Since I don’t want to turn this into an SSPX thread, I’ll just agree to disagree and let the other issue rest entirely.

 

[Socrates92]

“Happy-clappy”?
I’m assuming you are saying this characterization is how you view the OF? If it is, its uncharitable and inaccurate. Hopefully, I’m just reading your intent wrong.

I have definitely been to OF masses that have been just that. I also like to call them Barney masses. I’m glad that the OF masses that you attend are more reverent.

 

[Aquinas11]

But to rely upon Latin in a modern society would be extremely eccentric, especially in a Universal Religion

St Pope Paul XXIII (opened Vat 2): “The Church - precisely because it embraces all nations and is destined to endure until the end of time - of its very nature requires a language which is universal, immutable, and non-vernacular.”

The principles we learn from Latin, as a dead language, are important, and they are preserved in the Latin - as they should be…

Latin may not be in common use but its far from dead in terms of spiritual dimension. Latin is kryptonite to the Devil. We know this because Crucifix soaked in Jesus’ blood bore inscription in Latin and we know this Crucifix is symbol of Satin’s defeat. Had he known what Jesus was doing, he would have tried to intervene. We also hear of countless exorcisms where they pray for 3-4 hours in English but when they start to pray in Latin after only a few minutes the demons go crazy and one guy (?JEsse Romero ) said he noticed a woman’s “arms and legs were like a Louisville slugger baseball bat” after a few minutes of praying in Latin , after they had been praying for hours in English and had no progress with the demon.

 

[Elf01]

Latin may not be in common use but its far from dead in terms of spiritual dimension. Latin is kryptonite to the Devil. We know this because Crucifix soaked in Jesus’ blood bore inscription in Latin and we know this Crucifix is symbol of Satin’s defeat. Had he known what Jesus was doing, he would have tried to intervene. We also hear of countless exorcisms where they pray for 3-4 hours in English but when they start to pray in Latin after only a few minutes the demons go crazy and one guy (?JEsse Romero ) said he noticed a woman’s “arms and legs were like a Louisville slugger baseball bat” after a few minutes of praying in Latin , after they had been praying for hours in English and had no progress with the demon.

It was also in Hebrew and Greek.

 

[phil19034]

I do have issues with those that prefer the EF impling that the OF is objectivally inferior.

Question: why is it ok to prefer the OF but not prefer the EF? What would you say if a Latin Catholic said he/she preferred the Byzantine Rite vs. the Roman Rite?

I don’t there is anything wrong with someone having a preference. The issue is when people think one is invalid or less holy.

If someone is able to pray the mass and connect with God only at the OF, then they should attend that. And if someone can only connect with God at the EF or an Eastern Divine Liturgy, they should do that.

Being universal doesn’t mean that every Catholic must attend the exact same Mass/Divine Liturgy with the exact same music, etc.

 

[phil19034]

Aquinas11:

Latin may not be in common use but its far from dead in terms of spiritual dimension. Latin is kryptonite to the Devil. We know this because Crucifix soaked in Jesus’ blood bore inscription in Latin and we know this Crucifix is symbol of Satin’s defeat. Had he known what Jesus was doing, he would have tried to intervene. We also hear of countless exorcisms where they pray for 3-4 hours in English but when they start to pray in Latin after only a few minutes the demons go crazy and one guy (?JEsse Romero ) said he noticed a woman’s “arms and legs were like a Louisville slugger baseball bat” after a few minutes of praying in Latin , after they had been praying for hours in English and had no progress with the demon.

It was also in Hebrew and Greek.

Hebrew is similar to Latin - in that it was a dead language for centuries (only resurrected to living status in the 20th century). This is why the Jews used (and still use) Hebrew as their liturgical language.

As a matter of fact, most Israeli rabbis didn’t want Hebrew used as the official language of Israel because they didn’t want it to distort understanding of the Scriptures. They wanted Yiddish become the official language of Israel. But the secularists won and Hebrew became the official language of Israel.

Koine Greek is also sort of considered a dead language (if one considers it different from modern Greek)

 

[Elf01]

Question: why is it ok to prefer the OF but not prefer the EF? What would you say if a Latin Catholic said he/she preferred the Byzantine Rite vs. the Roman Rite?

I don’t there is anything wrong with someone having a preference. The issue is when people think one is invalid or less holy.

That’s the point I was trying to make. I must not have phrased it well. You are imo entitled to prefer any valid, canonically regular Mass. Just accept that those with other preferences are entitled to those too.

 

[Aquinas11]

It was also in Hebrew and Greek.

Correct, but the point is that its not in English used in OF.

Just accept that those with other preferences are entitled to those too.

Yet its ok to brand people who attend SSPX as “practically schismatic”?