Why would God care who we have sex with?

[Zatzat]

Lust is a disordered desire… who created disorder? We’re back to the story of Satan and the Garden of Eden.

Who created disorder? Answer - Satan.

Who created Satan? Answer - God

Who, through their omniscience, knew that Satan would create disorder, yet went ahead and created Satan anyway? Answer - God.

No one around here has a problem with that, so I’m certainly not going to dwell on it.

Lust is an emotional response. God wired mans mind to experience that emotion and God created a universe in which such an emotion can exist.

The crowd around here claims that Satan has the power to create new emotions, to will new emotions into existence.

I would have thought that only God would hold that power.

In any event

*Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.*

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Zatzat]

First you say;

READ THE ENCYCLICAL…

Then in the same post, you say;

I really don’t care what the dictionary says,

Yet you expect me to care what the Encyclical says?

I’d suggest there’s no point in us continuing this discussion.

 

[Jennifer_J]

First you say;

Then in the same post, you say;

Yet you expect me to care what the Encyclical says?

I’d suggest there’s no point in us continuing this discussion.

The dictionary offers us a common usage of the word. It has nothing to do with the moral ramifications nor what the Catholic Church teaches. You are on a Catholic board. We are talking about the Catholic take on things. Not the dictionary definition.

You are very quick to dismiss something that you don’t understand.

BUT:
dictionary.reference.com/browse/lust

lust   /lʌst/ Show Spelled[luhst] Show IPA
–noun
1.intense sexual desire or appetite.
2.uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3.a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually fol. by for): a lust for power.
4.ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.

It seems that the Catholic Church isn’t that far from the 3 main definitions, huh?

 

[Jennifer_J]

Who created disorder? Answer - Satan.

Who created Satan? Answer - God

Who, through their omniscience, knew that Satan would create disorder, yet went ahead and created Satan anyway? Answer - God.

No one around here has a problem with that, so I’m certainly not going to dwell on it.

Lust is an emotional response. God wired mans mind to experience that emotion and God created a universe in which such an emotion can exist.

The crowd around here claims that Satan has the power to create new emotions, to will new emotions into existence.

I would have thought that only God would hold that power.

In any event

*Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.*

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

God did create the angel, Lucifer. He didn’t create the disordered view that Lucifer held. Lucifer made his own choice via free will, let his pride become too great and this disordered thinking led to his fall. Lucifer/Satan can’t create new emotions, but he can lead us astray and play on our God given emotions and tempt us to use our free will to make wrong choices–to abuse the good things that God has given us in a bad way, to separate us from God.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Desire is good, to desire our spouse is a good thing… when it turns into lust it’s a bad thing. Lust is disordered desire. To lust after something isn’t only about sex, we can lust after posessions as well

For simplicity’s sake, let’s think of it this way: When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, something happened to the happy feelings that existed. So we know that Satan is the “opposer” he’s “disorder” and all that other “ca-ca”. God’s not the one who created the “emotions” of lust He created the “emotions” of love and desire. Satan took those emotions and skewed up what was pure and good and made them into something that wasn’t.

As for why Lucifer was created even knowing that with free will that he’d rebel, the only thing I can say is that God’s ways aren’t our ways. He knows things we don’t because He’s outside of time. The only thing I can say is that it was probably God’s master plan all along.

God didn’t create evil, rather, He allowed for the absence of good. So, when God created light he also created darkness, but what is darkness? Absence of light. He didn’t create an absence of something it was a natural consequence of something being there. Now what is cold? Does cold exist? Nope… does’t exist because cold is absence of heat.

 

[mark_a]

Why would God Almighty who is so far beyond our comprehension, so powerful and almighty, care about our personal sex lives and who we have sex with?
What’s a good answer to this question?

Ot why should he care what we have sex with? After all, since there’s no chance of pregnancy, sheep may be an good alternative.

Using that as a basis, they will begin asking other questions or phrasing comments about it. like “The church is so obsessed with sex. Do they really think God cares about all that?” “Why would God care about what I do with my girlfriend on a Friday night, when there are much bigger things happening in the world, like earthquakes?”

Because his ordaining will is for a child, which could be the result of such activity, to have a loving mother and father in a stable home.

 

[Zatzat]

Desire is good, to desire our spouse is a good thing… when it turns into lust it’s a bad thing. Lust is disordered desire. To lust after something isn’t only about sex, we can lust after posessions as well

For simplicity’s sake, let’s think of it this way: When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, something happened to the happy feelings that existed. So we know that Satan is the “opposer” he’s “disorder” and all that other “ca-ca”. God’s not the one who created the “emotions” of lust He created the “emotions” of love and desire. Satan took those emotions and skewed up what was pure and good and made them into something that wasn’t.

As for why Lucifer was created even knowing that with free will that he’d rebel, the only thing I can say is that God’s ways aren’t our ways. He knows things we don’t because He’s outside of time. The only thing I can say is that it was probably God’s master plan all along.

God didn’t create evil, rather, He allowed for the absence of good. So, when God created light he also created darkness, but what is darkness? Absence of light. He didn’t create an absence of something it was a natural consequence of something being there. Now what is cold? Does cold exist? Nope… does’t exist because cold is absence of heat.

Good response, thanks for directly addressing my question. Although I don’t entirely agree, I now see exactly where you’re coming from.

 

[Zatzat]

Ot why should he care what we have sex with? After all, since there’s no chance of pregnancy, sheep may be an good alternative.

A sheep can’t consent to having sex with a human, therefor it would be abusive and wrong.

Because his ordaining will is for a child, which could be the result of such activity, to have a loving mother and father in a stable home.

How then could you object to a lesbian couple, who through reproductive technology, give birth to a child. Further, they assure that they are loving parents and they do provide for a stable home.

What’s the problem?

 

[glenconnor]

A quote by C. S. Lewis strikes me as apt here

“There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations–these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit–immortal horrors or everlasting splendours. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn: We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously–no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption. And our charity must be a real and costly love, with deep feeling for the sins in spite of which we love the sinner–no mere tolerance, or indulgence which parodies love as flippancy parodies merriment. Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbour is the holiest object presented to your senses. If he is your Christian neighbour he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ vere latitat–the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden.”
— C.S. Lewis (The Weight of Glory)

When you think of people that way, as the immortal beings that they truly are, you begin to see that you must treat them with fair more respect than you are accustomed to. Are you helping your fellow human beings to becoming that “everlasting splendour” or an “immortal horror” so to speak? Casual sex does not show respect for that other person. It shows selfish desire for your own need. I hope that I have the strength to hold out for marriage now that I am a believer. I have fallen off the road and I am ashamed of myself. I want to hold out for “everlasting splendour” and I want my wife to reach that everlasting splendour too. I don’t want to cause anyone else to respect themselves any less because I cannot control my libido.

Anyway, that all makes sense to me. I hope that it came across somewhat like the intent I had in my head.

 

[Janet1983]

In heaven, before Man was created, God created angels, angels were created with free will just like humans have been. Now there was one angel named Lucifer that was God’s most beautiful creation, and Lucifer wanted to have what God was. He wanted to be a ruler so decided to form a rebellion. About 1/3 of the angels decided to follow Lucifer. God again wanted to be loved for who He is, and tested Lucifer on this free will.

Well Seeing as Lucifer wanted to be such a leader of worlds, and seeing as he freely chose to walk away from God after seeing Him face to face, with full knowledge of who God was, God evicted him and his followers out of Heaven and told Lucifer that since “He would not serve”, he could have rule over Hell and I think He said earth as well (don’t remember).

ANYWAY, later on God made Man, again with free will. Lucifer was the serpent in the garden of Eden. The tempter (serpent) managed to get Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge which was God’s ONLY rule that they don’t do. After that, they had “knowledge of their nakedness, and learned what pain and labour was, and other evils such as lust and murder and on and on”.

So there ya go. Evil is NOT a thing, it’s a state… you don’t see actual evil, you do evil and only see or feel its results.

Hold on… if Lucifer fell before God created man, how could God say that it was good? I thought God saw all that he had made, and it was very good…

 

[When_it_comes]

f God is omniscient then he knows how to bring it about that there is neither evil nor suffering.
If God is omnipotent then he is able to bring it about that there is neither evil nor suffering.
If God is benevolent then he wants to bring it about that there is neither evil nor suffering.
But if God knows how to, is able to and wants to bring it about that there is neither evil nor suffering, then why does he not do so?

“God is incomprehensible” you respond.

Theists have often been content to say that we are unable to comprehend God, that his being transcends our mundane experiences and that our concepts, which are derived from such experiences, cannot be used to describe him. If true, then this might be thought to count in favor of agnosticism; if we cannot comprehend God, then how can we reason with any confidence concerning his existence?

Of course, I can’t expect this to make sense to any one here. The only way you could maintain such a blind faith as I see here is if you rejected anything that offended you or challenged your knowledge. At least when I am censored, you must acknowledge the truth of this last paragraph.

 

[Vile_Servant]

I’ve heard this question, phrased in different ways, but basically coming down to the same thing:

Why would God Almighty who is so far beyond our comprehension, so powerful and almighty, care about our personal sex lives and who we have sex with?

What’s a good answer to this question?

Using that as a basis, they will begin asking other questions or phrasing comments about it. like “The church is so obsessed with sex. Do they really think God cares about all that?” “Why would God care about what I do with my girlfriend on a Friday night, when there are much bigger things happening in the world, like earthquakes?”

Your responses please.

when we belong to someone, someone who loves us deeply and vice versa, we care about the sacredness of our relationship with that someone. we do not do anything to harm that love and that sacred bond. just ask any wife who has been grieved by a wayward husband, for example.

if we really love God, the Supreme Lover who has loved us before we were born, and who has counted every hair on our heads, we should keep his commandments, for in keeping God’s commandments will we find true peace and joy in this world, and everlasting life in the next.

 

[da_nolo]

Hold on… if Lucifer fell before God created man, how could God say that it was good? I thought God saw all that he had made, and it was very good…

Okay, I do not have all the answers and no one does, so lets take this into consideration.
what is up with the devil?

Zatzat:

How could something exist when it did not exist?

Okay the above is not exact but it’s the gist of it yea…

Loboto-Me:

I have an interesting name and evil is the absence of good, not the existence of something new. therefore lust is not a thing newly made by humans.

yes, again not exactly the same but lets review. I added these ‘loose’ quotes to keep everyone in the loop. review and keep what has been said by above individuals in mind please as I will cover them ALL…mu-wa ha ha ha ha!

anyways let’s get into the nitty gritty . Starting with Lucifer, there is a theory that he ‘fell’ from Grace because he wanted to be like God, there is also a theory that he fell from Grace due to the fact that God showed all angels a part of the plan. The plan being mankind, and the response being … well… we did not deserve it. after all we are weaker than and less than angels in ways and therefore to be present with God (as planned - as Loved) then that’s ridiculous. so there have you the reason towards Lucifer’s fall and why he hunts humans to do ill will and other assortments of evil…after all evil is absence of good and therefore absence from God. over all it’s to foil God’s plan and attack His children. To explain myself, the summary explaining the fall is NOT just created or thought of by me but I learned it from Catholic Radio.

moving on this brings into question along with what Zatzat has explained, what is God’s plan? ‘well if these things exist, then God has allowed them to exist.’ Which takes us to Loboto-Me over all statement…‘it does not exist, similarly to cold…evil is just the absence from Good. and therefore it is not created.’ Please feel free to reread what was actually stated as it will really help understand what they actually said vs. my lame summary.

now adding this all up with what *Janet

• asked…makes an over all interesting day where it feels like your head explodes, so take the time to Pray and be humble. pretty simple. anyways, Janet, there is no real explanation, however, to say that the creation of angels is over all GOOD regardless to the heart act that goes with it. similar to our human race here on earth no? thank God for life even though we disobey so many times and we fight between each other.

However with even that being said, it allows the thought that Jesus KNEW he was going to be betrayed, therefore God KNEW the devil’s trap. so could this all be one big plan to allow the devil to learn a lesson and for all of us to learn one big lesson so we may be perfect under the image/in the image of GOD? if we all are to be with God, why so many fail and go to hell? God has shown us the future and what he wants us to become, which is with HIM (ultimately). which brings up a point that Jesus foretold His second coming but never explained when really. well maybe that’s because if we did know, our actions would be false to our hearts. when 9/11 occurred and those buildings went down, millions flocked to Church, but why? was it because they finally realized their demise and desired eternity with God, or that they feared death with uncertainty and desired peace of conscious rather peace of the spirit? so perhaps that explains the actions as to why we are not told everything that is to happen nor why it happens as it would threaten our true selves and development. after all we are called to be in Heaven (existence with God) and to do so we must be perfect. however that is no easy trip, but a hard road to travel where perfection is not completely reached (as we can not reach it here on earth), until God’s Grace blesses us.

well either way you look at it, perhaps your not supposed to know exactly. and what has been explained to us is not in full. so to wrap this weird explosion of thought up, the entire plan has not been made available to us, only a few pieces that is enough to understand what we need to be doing.

hey Zatzat & Loboto-Me as well as others, to explain my point of view.It is in the bubble to help seperate it from above. lust is just a word explaining a persons abuse, not an actual emotion. God told us to go forth and multiply, the idea of lust -as said- is the abuse. the act in it as well as fornication is to act within what is our emotions (our human emotions that God has placed) and reject the Good/reject God. (as I think about this now as well) Hate is not opposite of Love, indifference is. ever heard that before? the reason a person is frustrated and hates you is because your not doing what they think is best. the abuse to that or evil in that is to disregard a person entirely and simply move them out of your way to get what you want. put lust into the equation, your getting that physical solution but attempting to remove Love from the presence…so your not worrying about over all importance in the other person. hence it being indifference and therefore not Love and against God. When we attempt to act within our normal actions but refrain from normal behavior, then we are removing ourselves from the reality of our emotions. For you see that’s why when/if we do act within lust our relationships with other individuals plummet (reflection to what happens to our relationship with God). Our normal activity within these emotions -which are natural- get thrown out of proportion and out of our control. so what is it when we think/act out side reality? insanity! if we are insane then we act/think out side the reality that is GOD.

 

[mark_a]

A sheep can’t consent to having sex with a human, therefor it would be abusive and wrong.

Male dogs can. 'Nuff said??

How then could you object to a lesbian couple, who through reproductive technology, give birth to a child. Further, they assure that they are loving parents and they do provide for a stable home.

What’s the problem?

Parents are one male and one female.

 

[PaulinVA]

How then could you object to a lesbian couple, who through reproductive technology, give birth to a child. Further, they assure that they are loving parents and they do provide for a stable home.

What’s the problem?

Well, a “lesbian couple” through “reproductive technology” do not give birth to a child.

A woman, who happens to be a lesbian, uses reproductive technology to create a child that essentially will never know who his/her father is, but will be “adopted” by another woman. This gives the child no father and two mothers, a biological impossibility and something totally unnatural.

How can it be good for a child to be born by a lie?

 

[Zatzat]

How can it be good for a child to be born by a lie?

If you ever meet such a child, I do hope that you keep your feelings to yourself.

( I though Catholics believed that all babies were precious and good?)

Artificial insemination isn’t a lie…unless of course, you lie about it.

I also thought that God was responsible for the birth of every human being that has ever lived and will ever live.

Surely if God didn’t want a lesbian couple to carry a child in one of their wombs…surely God wouldn’t bless their womb with a child?

Or does God have nothing to do with the creation of life in the womb?

On another note, if a heterosexual, Catholic and married couple have a child through artificial insemination and the husband isn’t the father…does your question still apply;

" How can it be good for a child to be born to a lie"?

 

[Zatzat]

Parents are one male and one female.

That’s one heck of a weak definition of what makes a parent.

I can just imagine a married heterosexual couple at an adoption agency;

Agency - So, what makes you think that you’d be good parents.

Couple - I am a man, she is a woman. That is all, may we have our adopted baby now?

 

[PaulinVA]

These are all good comments. Thanks for asking.

If you ever meet such a child, I do hope that you keep your feelings to yourself.

( I though Catholics believed that all babies were precious and good?)

All babies are precious and good and a blessing. They can be conceived under sinful circumstances, though, which might affect the baby as he/she grows up.

Artificial insemination isn’t a lie…unless of course, you lie about it.

The lie is 'Honey, you have two mommies and no daddy and we are a family." That is a lie and biologically impossible.

I also thought that God was responsible for the birth of every human being that has ever lived and will ever live.

Surely if God didn’t want a lesbian couple to carry a child in one of their wombs…surely God wouldn’t bless their womb with a child?

Or does God have nothing to do with the creation of life in the womb?

God created the biology that allows couples to be co-creators with Him of new life. If a sperm and an egg meet at the right time, etc, you have created a baby. You can misuse the biology that God created and go out and create a baby in ways other than what he intended. He doesn’t block the biology from working; people are simply misusing it. We have free will, remember?

On another note, if a heterosexual, Catholic and married couple have a child through artificial insemination and the husband isn’t the father…does your question still apply;

" How can it be good for a child to be born to a lie"?

No, telling that child that he/she has a mommy and a daddy is the truth. While the faculty for creating the child was misused, the basic biology and the family structure are true and model the ideal.

 

[Zatzat]

The lie is 'Honey, you have two mommies and no daddy and we are a family." That is a lie and biologically impossible.

Where’s the lie?

I now ask of you;

Which is a better family in which to raise children;

A) A heterosexual married Christian couple, who are both terrible alcoholics, domestic abuse abounds, they ignore their children and are neglectful of their childrens emotional needs.

or

B) Two stable same sex partners who are Athiests, who adopt a child and provide for a consistently stable, loving, safe and secure home.

By your definition of family, apparently, the latter choice isn’t even a family?

I’m really not sure why you place so much emphasis ( seemingly the only emphasis) on the definition of a family being based upon the gender and sexual preferences of the parents?

I suspect the children would have a better sense of whether or not they’re being raised in a stable, safe and loving family, rather than strangers peering in from a distance and declaring their home family free…all and only because of their parents choice of sexual activity.

 

[mark_a]

That’s one heck of a weak definition of what makes a parent.

I can just imagine a married heterosexual couple at an adoption agency;

Agency - So, what makes you think that you’d be good parents.

Couple - I am a man, she is a woman. That is all, may we have our adopted baby now?

This does not mesh at all with Catholic teaching.