Why would God create people he knew would go to hell?

[PetraG]

The author is specifically saying that it’s impossible for God to contradict His own nature. The author isn’t saying that God can choose evil over good…but chooses not to, he’s specifically saying that God CAN’T choose evil over good. It’s impossible. Which differs from you or I, who can and often do choose evil over good. God therefore is missing the most essential aspect of free will, the ability to both understand and choose between good and evil.

It’s this ability to choose between good and evil that lies at the heart of man’s free will. But God…if the referenced author is correct, can’t make such a choice. Not won’t…can’t. One would therefore have to conclude that God lacks free will.

I understand and appreciate the author’s position, but I can’t help but find it fundamentally flawed, and perhaps we should just leave it at that.

I think someone does not realize it is ludicrous for to say that a Supreme Being lacks free will because the Supreme Being has eternally known His Own Mind, an ultimate wisdom from which all reality flows.

Of course God has free will. God cannot be compelled not to be true to Himself. If that is not free will, what is?

 

[Latin]

Latin:

The Catholic Church does NOT TEACH that anyone is in hell.

Sadly they are though. This isn’t the first time you’ve been down this road is it? and I’m speaking without an ounce of sarcasm I want you to understand that. I understand how difficult and heavy it is to accept this.

I understand that we weren’t asked tobe created, still this happened. Our creator, God has laws. life on Earth is just a short amount of time so it is a small burden to carry to inherit the rewards of Heaven. (edit: well no it is small in the scheme of things, it feels heavy now.)

No one wants to go through basic training training in the army but what can follow it is a distinguished military career. Still, there are those that choose to break the rules and be thrown out of the army forfeiting their career.

This is a poor metaphor I know but it’s the closest I can come. God has a personal relationship with you that I don’t have, I don’t know you. He does. The mercies he shows you, will be based on YOUR relationship, not anyone else.

But is that enough? Shouldn’t you crucify your passions, or try your best to, and keep his commandments, repenting those times you fail?

This is my understanding, and I hope it becomes yours.

God bless you 2Towers and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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You said 2Towers:
Sadly they are though. This isn’t the first time you’ve been down this road is it?

I have to admit, you are correct on both account.
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Yes the CC teach God predestined people hell, only call it “Decree the Divine Reprobation.” – Which means negative predestination to hell.

But there are also teachings as well in the CC which challenge that anyone will end up in hell.

Meaning: God’s will be done and God will save everyone. - I believe, God has what it takes to save the entire human race.
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I will answer your above post in detail.
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God bless you 2Towers and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[2towers]

I think someone does not realize it is ludicrous for to say that a Supreme Being lacks free will because the Supreme Being has eternally known His Own Mind, an ultimate wisdom from which all reality flows

A good way of framing it for a person having difficulty grasping this concept might be to say "it is not in the nature of God to do evil. He most certainly could if he chose to, just as I could choose to drink DrainO but I’m not gonna!

 

[2towers]

Meaning: God’s will be done and God will save everyone. - I believe, God has what it takes to save the entire human race

Wouldn’t that be swell! (Like Dennis the Menace used to say!) Here is the rub for me. I am trying my best to trust God. I am working on that. (My buddy Gandalf said, “The wretched are ever distrustful”) One creature I most certainly do not trust is myself, for I am a wretched sinner.

So… life is short, the afterlife is forever! I think leaving as little as possible to chance, is a really good idea!

PS: God has what it takes, but if we reject him to the end and don’t repent, he might just let us have our way.

 

[BornInMarch]

I remember this question from philosophy class. Here are some possible answers:

1. God knows every possible path a person’s life can take (at least some of which lead that person to Heaven), and all of those possible paths are the “real” future until the present goes down one. In this case God didn’t predestine some people to Hell because the people could have picked the paths that lead to Heaven.
2. The future doesn’t exist at all, and plans for the future only exist in minds in the present. In this case God doesn’t know which living people will go to Heaven or Hell because knowing that is impossible (just like God can’t make a square circle).

Of course these aren’t the only possible answers, they’re just interesting ones I recall.

 

[Herculees]

He does NOT know who will go to hell!
He has the ABILITY to see the future end but he CHOOSES “NOT” to see it!
He gives us FREE WILL and therefore we CAN get to heaven!

 

[AlNg]

The fact He knows in advance what people will choose to do, doesn’t mean He caused them to choose / do evil.

But if God knows in advance what we will choose, then we have no alternative except to do what was known already in advance. Free will implies the existence of different alternatives. But there are no alternatives for us since we have to do what was known beforehand that we would do.

 

[AlNg]

He does NOT know who will go to hell!

So God is not omniscient according to you?

 

[AlNg]

The Catholic Church does NOT TEACH that anyone is in hell.

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Does the Catholic Church approve of the shrine at Fatima?

 

[Latin]

Why would God create people he knew would go to hell? I think this thing is absurd…

God bless you Adrian1 and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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GOD ALREADY DEMONSTRATED HIS ETERNAL PLAN AND WILL OF UNIVERSAL SALVATION IN NINEVEH
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According to the Scripture, the Ninevites were probably the most wicked people in the whole world and yet God’s recreation of them didn’t produce even one junk or disobedient new creation.
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FIRST:
GOD PROMISED Universal Hell to the people of Nineveh.
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Jonah 3:4; Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
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SECOND:
GOD’S LOVE, JUSTICE AND WILL DEMANDS – Universal Salvation in Nineveh.

Jonah 4:11; And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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ACCORDING TO THE SAME ABOVE PRINCIPLE GOD WILL SAVE EVERYONE
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FIRST:
GOD’S PROMISE TO THE HUMAN RACE – Apart from a few people, practically Universal Hell.

Matt.7:13-14; Apart from a few people I throw everyone to hell.
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SECOND:
GOD’S REPEATED PROMISES of Universal Salvation of the human race.
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Rom.5:18;
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, even so one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
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1 Cor.15:22;
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
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Eph.1:9-11;
9. He made known to us the mystery of his will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ,

1. to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfilment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth in Christ.
2. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
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Col.1:20;
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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OUR UNIVERSAL SALVATION IS DONE BY THE UNIVERSAL RECREATION OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE
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NO ONE CAN BE SAVED without God’s recreation (it doesn’t matter how we cut it, God recreates everyone, this is God’s responsibility, can be NO exception), we can be SURE God DOES NOT recreate anyone to be a junk. – God doesn’t make us junks, God makes us His OBEDIENT CHILDREN.
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CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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At our Recreation/Initial Justification we all receive God’s graces of faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL.

Did you notice above Adrian1, 2Towers and every readers of the CAF, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL given to us.
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As we see above, by our Recreation and Initial Justification God is the One who makes us His OBEDIENT CHILDREN and by God working IN US and WITH US as follows God is the One who keeps us His OBEDIENT CHILDREN.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
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Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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CCC 154; Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. …
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CCC 155; In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will MOVED by God through grace."
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
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Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
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God bless you Adrian1 and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[pocaracas]

Someone on this forum once showed me a great line of reasoning.
From psychology, one can, in principle, come to know the series of events that lead each person to do “evil”.
If you understand all the reasons that make a person behave in some manner, you find that you cannot fault the person.
Understanding further that your brain works in a particular way and that it will generate a particular response based on particular (name removed by moderator)uts, then you find that you can not really put blame on anyone for any of their behaviors.

God, as all-knowing, would understand everyone’s series of events, everyone’s psychological states. God would find it impossible to attribute fault to anyone.
God would forgive all for their perceived evilness.

No hell would be required. Never.

If that is so, then… why do humans perpetuate the notion of such an undesired afterlife?
Eternal afterlife, at that!

 

[thistle]

Yes the CC teach God predestined people hell, only call it “Decree the Divine Reprobation.” – Which means negative predestination to hell.

But there are also teachings as well in the CC which challenge that anyone will end up in hell.

Meaning: God’s will be done and God will save everyone. - I believe, God has what it takes to save the entire human race.

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Sorry but I am confused about what you are saying and hope you can clarify it for me.

You say the Church teaches God predestined people to Hell. That is not true. The Church teaches that nobody is predestined to Hell.

You also seem to be implying that the Church teaches that nobody will end up in Hell.

You also seem to be saying that everyone will be saved. That would mean even those in Hell would be saved.

I might be completely misunderstanding your comments so forgive me if I am but could you please explain what you mean.

 

[Latin]

God bless you Thistle and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestination.

I. NOTION OF PREDESTINATION

Quote: Considering that not all men reach their supernatural end in heaven, but that many are eternally lost through their own fault, there must exist a twofold predestination:

(a) one to heaven for all those who die in the state of grace;

(b) one to the pains of hell for all those who depart in sin or under God’s displeasure.

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However, according to present usage, to which we shall adhere in the course of the article, it is better to call the latter decree the Divine “reprobation”, so that the term predestination is reserved for the Divine decree of the happiness of the elect. End quote.
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AS WE SEE ABOVE: EXIST A TWOFOLD PREDESTINATION:

(a) one to heaven for all those who die in the state of grace;

(b) one to the pains of hell for all those who depart in sin or under God’s displeasure.
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We call predestination to the pains of hell decree the Divine “reprobation.”

Evan we call predestination to the pains of hell decree the Divine “reprobation,” it is still predestination to the pains of hell.
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I will have further explanation on the subject.
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God bless you Thistle and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[Spyridon]

Why would people God created knowingly reject him and so choose to go to hell by their own free will? I think this thing is absurd…

 

[Lynette]

God did not create people to go to hell, or to heaven for that matter.
When God created people he gave them the will to chose between right and wrong. The difference between right and wrong should be clear to people. Even in society doing wrong is punishable by law.
In society we know what the punishment would be, but we do not understand heaven and hell. The best explanation I heard was that after death when the soul faces the wonderful Countenance of God, hell is the knowledge that one will not face that Countenance again.
I believe this could also apply to all religions as all religions believe in an after life.+

 

[PetraG]

But if God knows in advance what we will choose, then we have no alternative except to do what was known already in advance. Free will implies the existence of different alternatives. But there are no alternatives for us since we have to do what was known beforehand that we would do.

A good way of framing it for a person having difficulty grasping this concept might be to say "it is not in the nature of God to do evil. He most certainly could if he chose to, just as I could choose to drink DrainO but I’m not gonna!

You do not lose free will when you get to be too wise to do something stupid. When you actually have the wisdom to choose what is truly according to your nature, the foresight to know exactly what the consequences will be and the power to always do what you intend, that is true freedom.

In other words, freedom and license aren’t the same thing. That is the lie told in Eden.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

Because if God only created beings that would love Him, or if he annihilated any being that rejected Him, he wouldn’t be all loving… He would be a tyrant and a monster. For us to be able to truly love Him eternally as a free choice, we also have to be able to reject Him eternally as well. Love is not forced; love is a free will choice.

When we choose God and to love Him, we say to Him, “Thy will be done” and in return He says to us, “My will be done.” What is God’s will for us? To come to know Him, Love Him, and serve Him in this life so as to be eternally happy with Him in the next.

On the other hand, when we reject God, we say to Him, “No… My will be done.” and in return, God loves us so much that He restrains Himself and His power and control; He refuses to overwhelm our free will choice with His grace and says to us in return “Thy will be done.”

God loves us so much that He draws back into Himself. He allows for there to be a “not Him”; for there to be a deafening, eternal silence apart from Him where we may eternally persist in our own self-righteousness and selfishness.

Hell is a door locked from the inside.

I highly suggest you get a copy of Father Mike Schmitz’s CD The Four Last Things: Death, Judgement, Heaven, and Hell which excellently explains these concepts:

The Four Last Things: Death, Judgment, Heaven, Hell - Fr. Michael Schmitz

Fr. Mike Schmitz is one of the leading Catholic speakers in the Church today. Fr.

www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org

I also recommend watching the following video:

 

[pocaracas]

On the other hand, when we reject God, we say to Him, “No… My will be done.”

Actually, it has nothing to do with will.
It has to do with intellectual honesty. If the reality of something is not established properly, why should I accept its existence?
Fictional entities abound in folklore and in books… How…or rather what mechanism exists to determine which are real and which are not?
Unlike Fox Mulder, I don’t want to believe. I want to know.

My will has nothing to do with the reality of any of those entities.
That said, it’s not even a rejection… it’s more of a “It doesn’t seem to me that you guys are describing a real entity”… and don’t forget that this impression is repeated for all entities thus far considered to be divine in nature by all of mankind.

When I see these thread titles “Why would God create people he knew would go to hell?”, they are equivalent to “Why would Darth Vader and Palpatine allow the knowledge of the Force to become an old superstition?”. We’re peering into motivations of fictional beings. It’s a worthwhile exercise in itself, as it allows us to consider a rule-book that is not our own.