Why would God create people who do not want to live?

[Tom_Baum]

It will and we have to accept the inevitable element of absurdity in an immensely complex, physical universe. In the spiritual world nothing occurs by chance…

chance: one of the definitions: “a possibility or probability of anything happening”

This is one of the definitions of chance, is this what you meant by “chance” in what you wrote concerning the spiritual world and if not what do you mean by chance?

If this is what you meant, are you saying that everything is “set in concrete”, so to speak, in the spiritual world?

If that (set in concrete) is what you are saying, how do you know?

You wrote, “In the spiritual world nothing occurs by chance…”, do you think that in “the physical world nothing occurs by chance” also?

I don’t think/believe that the spiritual world is as static as it appears you believe it to be.

 

[oldcelt]

chance: one of the definitions: “a possibility or probability of anything happening”

This is one of the definitions of chance, is this what you meant by “chance” in what you wrote concerning the spiritual world and if not what do you mean by chance?

If this is what you meant, are you saying that everything is “set in concrete”, so to speak, in the spiritual world?

If that (set in concrete) is what you are saying, how do you know?

You wrote, “In the spiritual world nothing occurs by chance…”, do you think that in “the physical world nothing occurs by chance” also?

I don’t think/believe that the spiritual world is as static as it appears you believe it to be.

We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, **God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events **

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

 

[Aloysium]

. . . We cannot even be sure they continue to regret having been born after they die. It is quite possible they change their mind! Rejecting life is not the same as rejecting God. After death they see everything in a different perspective. . . .

Although in most suicides, I would say,
we can never know what the person was thinking and feeling
(which is why demonic posession seems as good an explanation as any other),
what I believe to be true is that the person is not rejecting God, as you say;
they are not rejecting life itself, nor the love of their family,
but rather some illusory, empty, meaningless distorted state.

If I am in the middle of the desert and
every step I take brings me deeper into the awareness that
I am in a desert, and
there is no way out,
this is not life;
this is depression.

 

[Jubilarian]

The term “Hinduism” can refer to a number of things, and tends to be used for a number of versatile religions, from atheistic, to polytheistic, to monotheistic. That’s why I said “some monotheistic religions in Hinduism.” The term “Hinduism” is probably one of the most problematic terms there is.

oh okay, I missed a portion of what you said. My mistake.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

So many people commit suicide every day. The Church teaches that these people are not always morally responsible for their suicide due to severe emotional distress, and the common opinion seems to be that the majority of them are not responsible.

God created us out of love. That’s what we’re taught. But why, then, would God create somebody knowing very well that their life would end with them being in such a horrible mental state that they do not want to live anymore? I have no doubt that many of these people would, if given the choice, prefer to not have been born at all. How can we say, then, that they were created out of love?

If life is such a beautiful gift that it’s worth going through all the suffering that sin brought upon the world, then why do we have suicide? Why is suicide such a problem? If it exists at all, it should be an extreme rarity, and exclusively performed by atheists. This is not the case.

Sorry, I came into this discussion late and I did not read the pages of posts before this.

My question is OP, why do you think God created someone to not want to live? (or is that your question?) Logic does not follow this, knowing God’s attributes according to Holy Scripture. Suffering is a big part of life. Even non mentally ill people have suffering so bad that suicide becomes a temptation with desire to end the suffering. (<-- That would not be mental illness in the traditional sense, but conditional.)

Surely God did not create illness. God did not even create death. It says so in Holy Scripture. Death was a result of sin. “The wages of sin is death”. I do want to note that I am not saying that a sufferer is always to blame due to personal sin, no- others can cause suffering as well. Sometimes things just happen. However, sin ultimately is what brought this on to humankind. It will be a part of life until the return of Christ.

 

[oldcelt]

Sorry, I came into this discussion late and I did not read the pages of posts before this.

My question is OP, why do you think God created someone to not want to live? (or is that your question?) Logic does not follow this, knowing God’s attributes according to Holy Scripture. Suffering is a big part of life. Even non mentally ill people have suffering so bad that suicide becomes a temptation with desire to end the suffering. (<-- That would not be mental illness in the traditional sense, but conditional.)

Surely God did not create illness. God did not even create death. It says so in Holy Scripture. Death was a result of sin. “The wages of sin is death”. I do want to note that I am not saying that a sufferer is always to blame due to personal sin, no- others can cause suffering as well. Sometimes things just happen. However, sin ultimately is what brought this on to humankind. It will be a part of life until the return of Christ.

I have posted on many threads that God infallibly and immutably preordained all future events. You can find this in the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. It follows, that the Christian version of God DID create suffering, illness and death, regardless of what the bible says.

 

[Tom_Baum]

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

And you also inserted this quote: ‘Quote’: “We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events”

This is why, I believe, God came up with a PLAN, even before creation itself, which somehow is catholic, in that God’s Plan is, ultimately, for the SALVATION OF ALL.

God “knew” that not ALL would repent this side of breath and God took this into consideration in coming up with God’s Plan.

Many seem to believe that God can not do things that they think God can not do, that doesn’t mean that God has to only do things that “people” have “figured out” that God can do.

God is sometimes referred to as the “God of surprises” and sometimes it seems as if those that are in for the “biggest surprise” are those that believe in God as opposed to those that do not believe in God.

This is merely my opinion but I believe that quite a few who do not believe in God, do not believe in the God/gods that they have heard others speaking of.

Even if someone “knows” God’s Name doesn’t mean that they know anything about God other than God’s Name.

 

[oldcelt]

And you also inserted this quote: ‘Quote’: “We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events”

This is why, I believe, God came up with a PLAN, even before creation itself, which somehow is catholic, in that God’s Plan is, ultimately, for the SALVATION OF ALL.

God “knew” that not ALL would repent this side of breath and God took this into consideration in coming up with God’s Plan.

Many seem to believe that God can not do things that they think God can not do, that doesn’t mean that God has to only do things that “people” have “figured out” that God can do.

God is sometimes referred to as the “God of surprises” and sometimes it seems as if those that are in for the “biggest surprise” are those that believe in God as opposed to those that do not believe in God.

This is merely my opinion but I believe that quite a few who do not believe in God, do not believe in the God/gods that they have heard others speaking of.

Even if someone “knows” God’s Name doesn’t mean that they know anything about God other than God’s Name.

If God knew these things before creating (omniscience), then the condemnation of the reprobate was part of his plan.

 

[Tom_Baum]

I have posted on many threads that God infallibly and immutably preordained all future events. You can find this in the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. It follows, that the Christian version of God DID create suffering, illness and death, regardless of what the bible says.

Seems to me that if anyone believes that before creation, there was only God, than it would be most logical to say that God created everything except for God.

I would say that this is the belief of the “creative aspect” of God that the Catholic Church believes, would anyone care to comment one way or the other concerning this “aspect” of God?

 

[Tom_Baum]

If God knew these things before creating (omniscience), then the condemnation of the reprobate was part of his plan.

Some think of “condemnation” as going to hell for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, I, sometimes, write it this way to maybe get some to think that “for ever” is, to say the least, quite a while.

Condemnation can mean “going thru Judgement”.

We will ALL go thru Judgement.

I believe that “hell” is custom-built by its inhabitant and that Jesus did NOT custom-build a hell for Himself but that He went to EVERYONE ELSE’S HELL by His “work” on the cross.

In doing this, He not only “destroyed” the power of satan that we gave to satan but “won” the “keys” to the netherworld (hell and spiritual death) and will use these keys in due time, God’s Time.

Sometimes, God does things right in front of our eyes, so to speak, and we are too blind to see, at times it is our arrogance that blinds us.

 

[oldcelt]

Some think of “condemnation” as going to hell for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, I, sometimes, write it this way to maybe get some to think that “for ever” is, to say the least, quite a while.

Condemnation can mean “going thru Judgement”.

We will ALL go thru Judgement.

I believe that “hell” is custom-built by its inhabitant and that Jesus did NOT custom-build a hell for Himself but that He went to EVERYONE ELSE’S HELL by His “work” on the cross.

In doing this, He not only “destroyed” the power of satan that we gave to satan but “won” the “keys” to the netherworld (hell and spiritual death) and will use these keys in due time, God’s Time.

Sometimes, God does things right in front of our eyes, so to speak, and we are too blind to see, at times it is our arrogance that blinds us.

Your last two post were very kindly and sincerely written. Thank you for that.
I may not hold with any of what you said, but I deeply respect those who are able to express their belief so eloquently.

John