Why would God create people who do not want to live?

[Aloysium]

If you mean another shrink…no thanks…I’d rather speak to a doctor of the church IN HEAVEN, if one wishes to come down and visit.

Its possible, right?

Visiting a library you have access to the brightest minds who have lived. A one way conversation, I suppose, but God’s always listening.

 

[simonmic]

Visiting a library you have access to the brightest minds who have lived. A one way conversation, I suppose, but God’s always listening.

Thanks…I have a small decade chaplet with a Crucifix and Miraculous medal tied to my finger for when i sleep…when i sleep…Thanks again.

And if a saint or Our Lady want to visit me…I’m always here, indoors…waiting! They would erase all doubt.

 

[roseproject]

Do you think that God knows fate of before or after creation? The first one is full design and the second one is impossible.

I’ve come to the belief that God pretty much knows every possible end to every possible thing we can ever do in life and thus, knows how it will turn out whether or not our life turns out for better or for worse. He knows which decisions of ours will lead ourselfs to Him and those which lead us astray. He’ll gently lead us to make the right choices each day in life, if we ask, as we journey towards our eternal end with Him.

 

[simonmic]

I’ve come to the belief that God pretty much knows every possible end to every possible thing we can ever do in life and thus, knows how it will turn out whether or not our life turns out for better or for worse. He knows which decisions of ours will lead ourselfs to Him and those which lead us astray. He’ll gently lead us to make the right choices each day in life, if we ask, as we journey towards our eternal end with Him.

Does He know us before we are born and if possible, be able to talk to Him, in a state of awareness, prior to birth?

If it is possible, then i would see it as a free will choice not to have been born.

 

[roseproject]

Does He know us before we are born and is possible to talk to Him, in a state of awareness, prior to birth?

If it is possible, then i would see it as a free will choice not to have been born.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart”~Jeremiah 1:5

As far as your second question goes, God is the giver of our lives. A gift is not asked for but recieved. Ultimately, God made us for Himself. We are His. We are not our own. See what I’m saying?

 

[simonmic]

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart”~Jeremiah 1:5

As far as your second question goes, God is the giver of our lives. A gift is not asked for but recieved. Ultimately, God made us for Himself. We are His. We are not our own. See what I’m saying?

I see. Thanks.

I don’t know…Don’t know how to pray,pray for others with a full, believing heart… but i have been doing it in some kind of hope, when i doubt and i have self-loathing at the same time…I am not a real Catholic.

 

[roseproject]

I see. Thanks.

I don’t know…Don’t know how to pray,pray for others with a full, believing heart… but i have been doing it in some kind of hope, when i doubt and i have self-loathing at the same time…I am not a real Catholic.

Just a tiny flicker of faith is all it takes, and wherever you have doubt, ask God to make up for it. “God, help my disbelief”.
Even trying to pray is, I think, an act of the soul in itself and is heard by God The fact that you’re trying is pleasing to Him.

 

[oldcelt]

Your exact words were “I accept** this world** for what it is…because we created it.” So at the very least it is ambiguous.

You are jumping from one extreme to the other! It is not a case of all or nothing. I’m quite sure God does intervene on countless occasions but to expect Him to intervene whenever some one is going to suffer is absurd. It would defeat the purpose of creating an orderly, predictable world. Too many exceptions to the laws of nature would undermine our power to choose what to believe and how to live. It would be obvious that a benevolent power is protecting us.

Omniscience undermines our power to choose…and I see no evidence of a benevolent power. But that’s just me…and a growing minority.

John

 

[tonyrey]

Omniscience undermines our power to choose…

Only in your opinion! Please give reasons to support your theory.

…and I see no evidence of a benevolent power. But that’s just me…and a growing minority.

No evidence whatsoever? Then you must believe it would be better if life didn’t exist on this planet…

 

[tonyrey]

I see. Thanks.

I don’t know…Don’t know how to pray,pray for others with a full, believing heart… but i have been doing it in some kind of hope, when i doubt and i have self-loathing at the same time…I am not a real Catholic.

Your main problem, Simon, is lack of confidence and self-respect. **Nothing is achieved by being negative…
**

 

[simonmic]

Your main problem, Simon, is lack of confidence and self-respect. **Nothing is achieved by being negative…
**

Oh but there is something acheived. I remain where i am and where people would want me ( if they didn’t have other choices) due to those sins…And that includes many Catholics.

Besides all that, there is always a positve and negative…I obviously ain’t a smart person, so i can’t use much more detail…haha

 

[simonmic]

Only in your opinion! Please give reasons to support your theory.

Then you must believe it would be better if life didn’t exist on this planet…

That fact that everyone has an opinion (and might believe in it) makes His equal to yours too at least, wouldn;t you say?

Some people believe that some “forms of life” would have beeen better not to have existed…Didn’t Jesus mention something about Judas and that it had been better if He had not been born? If he, Judas, was not born, i would have have expected Jesus to still have been caught and tried. It wasn;t as though He was in exile, in a far off country, right?

And talking about Christianity alone. You know as well as i do, that people interpret scripture as it suits them, or some kind of agenda they have sometimes. That is why there are so many different denominations. Everyone wants a piece of the action, but only how they want you to believe it is so . They look at scripture as though they are in supermarket checking out all the varieties of breakfast cereal…“I like this bit, but i don’t like these bits in here…I know!, i’ll “revise” it to mean something else…God isn’t gonna complain is he now…lol”

 

[Neoplatonist]

Human words are obviously inadequate to describe God accurately but He is certainly not indifferent to the horrific suffering in the world. Our best guide is Jesus who wept with the sisters and friends of Lazarus. His human expression of grief must have a divine parallel we cannot fully understand.

I never got that. Why did he weep when he knew he could bring Lazarus back in a blink? He should have been no more sad than to hear his friend had literally just fallen asleep. ?]

 

[oldcelt]

Only in your opinion! Please give reasons to support your theory.

No evidence whatsoever? Then you must believe it would be better if life didn’t exist on this planet…

It’s very simple Tony…you just refuse to accept that when an omniscient creator creates, he already knows the outcome. Therefore, that creation is doing exactly what the creator knew it would…that is NOT free will.

Your second statement makes no sense to me. I don’t need a god looking over my shoulder to make life worthwhile.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Omniscient does not equal ‘know everything’. Jesus is omniscient and yet He admits He does not know when the father will have Him return to Earth.

As I understand it, omniscience means infinite knowledge, doesn’t it? A set can be infinite in members without having all possible members in it.

Definition

Omniscient: adjective

1. having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Seems to me that “Omniscient” simply means to “know everything”.

You wrote, “Omniscient does not equal ‘know everything’.” and you also wrote, “As I understand it, omniscience means infinite knowledge”.

Sounds to me like these are two contradictory statements, wouldn’t ‘know everything’ and ‘infinite knowledge’ be two ways of saying the exact same thing?

As far as, “Jesus is omniscient and yet He admits He does not know when the father will have Him return to Earth.”

Jesus Is God-Incarnate and I believe that God gave up His Omni’s, voluntarily, in the Incarnation and that this is referred to in the bible when it says that Jesus was like us in all ways except sin.

If Jesus were Omniscient than Jesus, by definition, should have known everything about everything.

Something to think about: how could anyone who knew absolutely everything about their life, live their life?

A lot of people bring up the thing about when Jesus is coming back, what about when Jesus said He wasn’t going to a party of some sort, I believe, but then went.

Seems to me, He must have changed His mind and if Jesus knew absolutely everything about His life then He would have known that He was going to go to the party, wouldn’t He have?

Concerning what you wrote, “A set can be infinite in members without having all possible members in it”, I would say that this is a FALSE statement.

If a set could be “infinite in members” and did not have “all possible members in it” than it would not be the set in question.

 

[Tom_Baum]

God is omniscient but we are not. We cannot possibly know the full extent of what is knowable. It is impossible for God to know what is intrinsically unknowable, not because His knowledge is limited but because it is self-contradictory. For example, God doesn’t know anything about nothing or no one because there is nothing to be known!

I can’t say one way or the other whether God knows anything about “nothing”, however, I would say that God knows about “nothing” in relationship to creation.

By this, I am referring to when there was “nothing” except for God.

What I was trying to get across is that I believe that God knows absolutely everything about someone before that someone comes into existence.

I, very specifically, said that I was NOT talking about “someone” who would never be but about someone who was not yet created, in other words, someone who very much so was in the future, not a hypothetical.

 

[ChainBreaker]

I don’t need a god looking over my shoulder to make life worthwhile.

Life has no worth without God.

 

[Tom_Baum]

We are certainly not eternal but that doesn’t mean **we **are created in time and space. Our ability to think of the past, present and future shows that the mind transcends physical limitations. As well as living in this world we exist in the spiritual, immaterial realm of truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love - of which the NeoPlatonists were well aware.

We are created in creation and creation IS time and space.

 

[ChainBreaker]

I can’t say one way or the other whether God knows anything about “nothing”, however, I would say that God knows about “nothing” in relationship to creation.Thats metaphysically impossible.

Thats metaphysically impossible. Out of nothing comes nothing.

By this, I am referring to when there was “nothing” except for God.

Thats metaphysically impossible. There is no time before time. The universe, although it has a beginning in time, is eternally present to God without change.

What I was trying to get across is that I believe that God knows absolutely everything about someone before that someone comes into existence.

Thats metaphysically impossible. God can only know that which exists.

I, very specifically, said that I was NOT talking about “someone” who would never be but about someone who was not yet created, in other words, someone who very much so was in the future, not a hypothetical.

God cannot know a future that does not exist. Thats metaphysically impossible.

God knows the future because God is actually and timelessly present to it’s existence.

 

[Jubilarian]

So many people commit suicide every day. The Church teaches that these people are not always morally responsible for their suicide due to severe emotional distress, and the common opinion seems to be that the majority of them are not responsible.

God created us out of love. That’s what we’re taught. But why, then, would God create somebody knowing very well that their life would end with them being in such a horrible mental state that they do not want to live anymore? I have no doubt that many of these people would, if given the choice, prefer to not have been born at all. How can we say, then, that they were created out of love?

If life is such a beautiful gift that it’s worth going through all the suffering that sin brought upon the world, then why do we have suicide? Why is suicide such a problem? If it exists at all, it should be an extreme rarity, and exclusively performed by atheists. This is not the case.

The issue of suffering, and God knowing they will suffer has never been explained to my satisfaction. Of course going through trials to be made more perfect is comprehensible but not shear horror.

I can only look to the suffering of JEsus for some consolation and hope it all makes sense in the end.