Why would God create people who do not want to live?

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Tom_Baum said:
We are created in creation and creation IS time and space.
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The creation of spiritual beings like angels doesn’t occur in time and space. Our souls are immaterial and in the same category.
 
oldcelt said:
A rather unprovable statement…sorry.
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If there is no God, no supernature, then there is nothing but physical interactions and therefore there is only the illusion of worth and meaning since these things are not physical.
 
ChainBreaker said:
If there is no God, no supernature, then there is nothing but physical interactions and therefore there is only the illusion of worth and meaning since these things are not physical.
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Why so? How could be so emotionally attached to something you haven’t experience? It could be a simple concept.
 
Bahman said:
Why so?
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If there is no God, no supernature, then there is nothing but physical interactions and therefore there is only the illusion of worth and meaning since these things are not physical.
 
ChainBreaker said:
If there is no God, no supernature, then there is nothing but physical interactions and therefore there is only the illusion of worth and meaning since these things are not physical.
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I’d love to see your evidence for this.

Johm
 
oldcelt said:
I’d love to see your evidence for this.

Johm
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It is simply a logical consequence of metaphysical naturalism. But of course, you do experience meaning and dignity and value and so you have been taking these things for granted without really realizing whats going on.

Human beings are curious creatures. I hope to take one home as a pet.
 
ChainBreaker said:
If there is no God, no supernature, then there is nothing but physical interactions and therefore there is only the illusion of worth and meaning since these things are not physical.
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Well, there is consciousness which rules physical world. You depend on consciousness/yourself for any experience.
 
ChainBreaker said:
It is simply a logical consequence of metaphysical naturalism. But of course, you do experience meaning and dignity and value and so you have been taking these things for granted without really realizing whats going on.

Human beings are curious creatures. I hope to take one home as a pet.
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How consciousness can be interpreted in metaphysical naturalism?
 
Jubilarian said:
The issue of suffering, and God knowing they will suffer has never been explained to my satisfaction. Of course going through trials to be made more perfect is comprehensible but not shear horror.

I can only look to the suffering of JEsus for some consolation and hope it all makes sense in the end.
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It will and we have to accept the inevitable element of absurdity in an immensely complex, physical universe. In the spiritual world nothing occurs by chance…
 
oldcelt said:
*Only in your opinion! Please give reasons to support your theory.
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I have pointed out, John, that knowledge is not equivalent to causation. We can predict many events but that doesn’t mean we make them happen.
Your second statement makes no sense to me. I don’t need a god looking over my shoulder to make life worthwhile.
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That fits in with your view that God just created the universe for no reason or purpose. You need to explain why your life is worthwhile. Is it an accident? Or does it depend on certain conditions?
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ramshacklenonse said:
Why would God create people who do not want to live? .
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Someone who did not want to live when they were created would have died at birth. Everyone is born with a zest and joy in life. People who decide to kill themselves decades later were clearly not created in the state of not wanting to live.
The question should be, what have those around them allowed to be done during those years to deprive them of that zest and joy life? We should instill that kind of joy in everyone we have contact with so that they know they are a source of light to all of us around them.

Chiara Luce Bodano is an example of that: reallifecatholic.com/blessed-chiara-luca-badano-pray-for-us/
 
Ignatius said:
Someone who did not want to live when they were created would have died at birth. Everyone is born with a zest and joy in life. People who decide to kill themselves decades later were clearly not created in the state of not wanting to live.
The question should be, what have those around them allowed to be done during those years to deprive them of that zest and joy life? We should instill that kind of joy in everyone we have contact with so that they know they are a source of light to all of us around them.

Chiara Luce Bodano is an example of that: reallifecatholic.com/blessed-chiara-luca-badano-pray-for-us/
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It is certainly unnatural not to want to live but understandable when people are afflicted by evil, misfortune or ignorance. There are also those who choose to be negative and - like Schopenhauer - begrudge the gift of life to everyone else. He was not evil but his pessimism must have influenced others who have contemplated suicide. It is only, thank God, a very small minority who choose to reject the opportunities life offers. They are created because free will is the greatest gift we have apart from life itself. We cannot even be sure they continue to regret having been born after they die. It is quite possible they change their mind! Rejecting life is not the same as rejecting God. After death they see everything in a different perspective. The OP simply demonstrates that it is a mistake to judge God by what happens here on earth…
 
tonyrey said:
I have pointed out, John, that knowledge is not equivalent to causation. We can predict many events but that doesn’t mean we make them happen.

That fits in with your view that God just created the universe for no reason or purpose. You need to explain why your life is worthwhile. Is it an accident? Or does it depend on certain conditions?
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First, if you are a creator and have foreknowledge of the outcome of that creation you are a causation. If you didn’t create it would never happen…therefore, your choice to create is the cause.
Second, my life is worthwhile for the impact (hopefully positive) that I can make on those around me. Was my life an accident…no…my parents performed an act that they knew could create human life. No specific conditions were necessary beyond fertility. The conditions necessary for life to evolve here were accidental in the broad scope.
 
ramshacklenonse said:
Why would God create people who do not want to live?
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It’s not that they don’t want to live; it’s that they don’t want to continue living as they have so far, or in the way they expect to live in the future. But because they see no way out, because they believe it is impossible to live differently, at least from the point on at which they currently are, they conclude that suicide is the only option for them to stop suffering.
God created us out of love. That’s what we’re taught.
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No, not all people are taught that, not even remotely.
Monotheistic fire and brimstone preachers are primarily reponsible for people not being taught that God loves people, but just the opposite. Many never recover after being taught that way.
Jubilarian said:
The issue of suffering, and God knowing they will suffer has never been explained to my satisfaction. Of course going through trials to be made more perfect is comprehensible but not shear horror.
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For comparison, you could look into what some monotheistic religions in Hinduism teach. They operate with the concepts of free will, karma and reincarnation with which all the evil in the world can be explained; in those religions, the problem of evil as we know it in the West doesn’t exist.
It can be helpful to look into what a significantly different religion teaches about the problem of evil, as this can help one better understand what exactly it is that one is grappling with in this problem.
 
Lucy107 said:
It’s not that they don’t want to live; it’s that they don’t want to continue living as they have so far, or in the way they expect to live in the future. But because they see no way out, because they believe it is impossible to live differently, at least from the point on at which they currently are, they conclude that suicide is the only option for them to stop suffering.

No, not all people are taught that, not even remotely.
Monotheistic fire and brimstone preachers are primarily reponsible for people not being taught that God loves people, but just the opposite. Many never recover after being taught that way.
For comparison, you could look into what some monotheistic religions in Hinduism teach. They operate with the concepts of free will, karma and reincarnation with which all the evil in the world can be explained; in those religions, the problem of evil as we know it in the West doesn’t exist.
It can be helpful to look into what a significantly different religion teaches about the problem of evil, as this can help one better understand what exactly it is that one is grappling with in this problem.
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i thought Hiduism was a polytheistic religion, unless you are speaking of one particular god. But still, it would not be “monotheistic”. I appreciate your point but for me, suffering ( holocaust, child torture, murder etc) just seems so unnecessary when God could prevent it, but then again, I’m not God and don’t know all things.
 
Jubilarian said:
i thought Hiduism was a polytheistic religion, unless you are speaking of one particular god.
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The term “Hinduism” can refer to a number of things, and tends to be used for a number of versatile religions, from atheistic, to polytheistic, to monotheistic. That’s why I said “some monotheistic religions in Hinduism.” The term “Hinduism” is probably one of the most problematic terms there is.
 
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