Why would God create those that He knew would end up in Hell

[prodigalson2011]

When even the Catechism of the Catholic Church says Christ’s soul could not have “unlimited” knowledge,

and people come up with quotes from all over the place to be contrary just for the sake of arguing, but without explicitly contraditing the Catechism’s idea which of course they can’t.
I get annoyed. This is not honest. I respect the truth.

I’m sorry; I’m not trying to annoy you or argue for the sake of it. I honestly disagree with you. Like I said, my understanding of the catechism is that it is referring to what I called “functional knowledge.” That is, knowledge that is particular to being human, such as how to walk, read and write, etc. Things that He, as Father, did not do.
I guess we might just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Salient]

It is Catholic dogma that Christ’s divine and human nature are inseparable. As this quote clearly shows, when taken in full context, Jesus was fully aware of things to come, but, going back to the catechism, revealing those things was not part of his earthly mission, so He spoke in this instance solely from His human nature. This did not mean that He was ignorant of His divine knowledge. If you think this is so, then you are left with the burden of explaining his prediction of Judas’ betrayal, Peter’s denial, his own passion, the persecution of his disciples, the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, the events that would precede His second coming, things Nathaniel had been doing when He was not present, the history of the woman at the well and I’m sure several other examples that don’t immediately spring to mind.

I don’t understand what you are saying empther. Would you please explain how your view of the Son of God/Son of Man fits with all these predictions that Jesus made? To you, did the Father tell Jesus these things only because it was necessary?

 

[paul_c]

Quote:
Don’t disregard Catechism paragraph 473. Be balanced in your view.

I’m sorry but you don’t understand the Catholic position on this . It says clearly that Jesus understands everything that pertains to God and can read the secret thoughts of human hearts. So how can you interpret this to mean that Jesus didn’t know Judas’s intentions toward him?

And while we’re at it, let’s take a look at 474 so I won’t be accused of cherry picking.

Quote:
474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

Same thing. No infinite knowledge there.

Please!, Can’t you see you are reading what you want into the statement? He enjoyged the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. i.e., he new what was going to happen to him. How can you read it otherwise?

Jesus is one person with two natures. They are comingled and both are equally part of him.

Prodigal son has done you a great service by pointing out to you where you are lapsing into heresy. He is not doing that to harm you. He is trying to help you find the truth and save your soul. Take that to heart …

 

[JDaniel]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that Jesus was “fully” God AND “fully” man. Now, what does this mean. As “fully” God, Christ had all of the knowledge in the universe, all the knowledge that God has, as we are told. As “fully” man, He was limited in what He could know of earthly data, limited in experience, limited in memory,

As God, the Father-Son-Holy Spirit, He moves and controls everything as a puppeteer might. But, a puppeteer would not know how a puppet felt, reacted, absorbed knowledge and practice, chose between intentions, or, even if a puppet knew, felt, and chose intents. (Obviously, this cannot be a perfect analogy.)

So, Jesus was “unrestricted” (unlimited) in His Divinity, but “restricted” (limited) in His manhood. A collaboration between the form of man and the essence of God had to take place. (If we consider some of the things Christ uttered to His Father, we get an inkling of this: i.e., “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they are doing;” and, “Abba, why hast thou forsaken me?” “All things,” He further says, “are delivered to me by my Father.” Think such statements through a little bit. If there was no pure man-ness in Jesus, if there was no restrictedness, Christ would not need to ask those questions, or utter those statements.

The Father-Son-Holy Ghost does not “predict” in the sense we seem to mean it today. He is not a charlatan, not a soothsayer. We see our own minute Now, in our own minute Time. He sees all of this as a “spark” (as though two electrodes touched). (That He can make out all that’s happening down here is, by itself, extraordinarily remarkable, to say the least.) When God transmits to His Son that Judas is to be the betrayer, we can only state this in our own time-constrained language. For God, it is a spark in His Now, and Jesus was appraised instantly, as God, but, temporally afterwords, as a man. To us, it appears that God is predicting the future. But, it is our future, not God’s. It is our temporality, not God’s.

I’m sure there are those who have stated this better than I. I am also sure that if you think clearly about this you can (almost) grasp that which is on the outer edges of grasp-ability. Think of God’s “infinity.” As a subway train travels along, the engine moves into a tunnel (“past”), but the aft portion of the train, has yet to enter it. After a while, the aft portion enters the tunnel (“future”). God’s “infinity” does not have a “fore” or an “aft.” God is present in the tunnel at once. What we might think of as a portion of God, left outside of the tunnel, is not. He is one whole. He is inside the tunnel while still outside, at one and the same instant, which we call His Eternal Now. In our time, when the engine moves into the tunnel, we know that the aft portion will enter it shortly. Was that a “prediction?” I guess, in a very wide sense, yes. I think of it as an inevitability.

God bless,
jd