Why would God make the hellbound?

[Bookcat]

That actually kind of makes sense to me.

Glad to here it

 

[Tom_Baum]

God does not change. To say that he changed over time is false.

You have a flawed understanding of Hell. Hell is eternal separation from God, eternal damnation. Since we, as humans, are destined by our creation to be with God, we are made absolutely unhappy by complete separation from Him, even when we reject him during our lifetimes.

There are not varying degrees of “funness” after death. There is Heaven or Hell. There are certainly varying degrees of happiness in Heaven, or suffering in Hell, but there is no “middle ground” between them.

You are either eternally happy or eternally damned. One or the other.

You wrote, “There is Heaven or Hell” and “You are either eternally happy or eternally damned. One or the other.”

What about the “new heavens and the new earth”?

By the way, hell is not separation from God, spiritual death is.

Why would you think that there are “varying degrees of happiness in Heaven”?

“The first shall be last and the last shall be first”.

Remember the “parable” of the workers who all got “paid the same”?

“My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts”.

Just because we think/believe that we have God “all figured out” does not mean that we do.

Ever given any thought to the “leaven of God” and that God might just know how to get this “leaven of God” to permeate ALL?

 

[Trishie]

We have free will to choose whether we merit heaven or hell.

Jesus Who is judge of souls, in Matthew 25 verses 31-46, explains why heaven, why hell.
He’s the ultimate authority…and it’s about whether we live lives of practical kindness, of love, according to His command to love God above all others as self…or simply to reject genuine unselfish love and thereby, reject God and heaven.

 

[dshix]

You wrote, “There is Heaven or Hell” and “You are either eternally happy or eternally damned. One or the other.”

What about the “new heavens and the new earth”?

By the way, hell is not separation from God, spiritual death is.

That’s incorrect.

Why would you think that there are “varying degrees of happiness in Heaven”?

“The first shall be last and the last shall be first”.

Think of it this way. Everyone in Heaven is holding a cup, and every cup is overflowing (this means that each person’s soul is overflowing with happiness). However, some people have bigger cups than others. This does not mean that anyone’s cup is less full, but it does mean that some people have a greater capacity for happiness.

Great saints have a great capacity for receiving God’s love and have a greater degree of bliss than someone who may have just barely made Heaven after a very sinful life. The great sinner is still infinitely happy, but not in quite the same way as the great saint.

 

[mikekle]

Despite what Presbyterians/Calvinists believe no one is pre-destined to go to Hell.

Unlike the rest of the animal kingdom he gave us Free Will. Unless you are mentally defective even the basest savage knows right from wrong. 'Seems the cannibals whom Cook met in S. Pacific were ashamed of their habit & tried to hide it from him. They knew it was wrong. Judas had Free Choice; God the Father did not ‘force’ him to betray Jesus. Yes He knew since He exists outside Time & Space.

We have all been given Choice; to accept God’s Will or else go to Satan’s dominion. Sad but today many many people prefer the latter. …
‘Pray lest you enter into temptation’…how very true these words of Jesus are today for the vast majority of mankind.

That is not entirely accurate, God KNOWS the future for everyone he creates, so when he breathes life into them, he knows if that person will go to hell or heaven, so in a way…he DOES create people destined for hell, depends on how you look at creation.

 

[gardenswithkids]

In a previous thread, I asked about something relating to the idea that God made us because He loved us.

I have a similar question. If God made us because He loved us, why did he make people whom He knew would choose to go to hell? In the 3rd edition Catechism, " ‘To love is to will the good of another.’ " (CCC 1766). However, Jesus says about Judas in Matthew 26:24, 24 " ‘The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.’ "

This seems to be a difficulty in need of resolution. Since God made Judas, He must have loved him. But if love is the willing of the good of another, then if God loved Judas, wouldn’t He have refrained from making him since it would have been better for Judas had he not been born? To generalize the question, why would God make any person that He knew would ultimately rebel against Him?

Please help me out here. This seems like a contradiction, but there’s probably some simple thing I’m overlooking.

Some speculate that those in hell experience the love of God as painful. This may be a bit simplistic of a comparison but a guy whom I did not like had a crush on my when I was much younger. I found his “love” and attention rather awful. The more he tried, the worse it felt! I just wanted him to leave me alone.

God’s love may continue for those in hell, but having made their eternal decision not share the same feeling for God, His love doesn’t feel the same to them as it does to those in heaven.

 

[Tom_Baum]

That is not entirely accurate, God KNOWS the future for everyone he creates, so when he breathes life into them, he knows if that person will go to hell or heaven, so in a way…he DOES create people destined for hell, depends on how you look at creation.

Another way of looking at it would be: Do you believe that God Is Omniscient or almost Omniscient?

 

[Tom_Baum]

That’s incorrect.

Think of it this way. Everyone in Heaven is holding a cup, and every cup is overflowing (this means that each person’s soul is overflowing with happiness). However, some people have bigger cups than others. This does not mean that anyone’s cup is less full, but it does mean that some people have a greater capacity for happiness.

Great saints have a great capacity for receiving God’s love and have a greater degree of bliss than someone who may have just barely made Heaven after a very sinful life. The great sinner is still infinitely happy, but not in quite the same way as the great saint.

As far as “That’s incorrect”, what is incorrect; that hell is not separation from God or that Spiritual Death Is?

As far as your last two paragraphs, how do you know?

Ever notice that some of those that are considered the “greatest saints” have been some of the “greatest sinners”?

I’m not God, you’re not God, God Is God and I would say that only God really knows the “specifics” or the “details”.

Something to think about tho is the parable about those that worked in the vineyard.

Some seem to wonder why the Apostles didn’t get what Jesus was saying, do we get it?

 

[Tom_Baum]

Some speculate that those in hell experience the love of God as painful. This may be a bit simplistic of a comparison but a guy whom I did not like had a crush on my when I was much younger. I found his “love” and attention rather awful. The more he tried, the worse it felt! I just wanted him to leave me alone.

God’s love may continue for those in hell, but having made their eternal decision not share the same feeling for God, His love doesn’t feel the same to them as it does to those in heaven.

Or could be that God has a Plan that many think God incapable of having and many simply do not want God to have.

Could be Jesus really is the Saviour of the world, even tho virtually no one believes this and many do not seem to want this.

 

[4love2God]

Dshix claims: "God does not change. To say that he changed over time is false."

Who appointed you Pope?

God has changed His mind about things MANY times, as is recorded in the Bible.
Whether it is deciding to change his mind about destroying a city … or many other ocassions, God has changed.

In the case of Adam sinning, God certainly changed His mind about the nature of mankind.
The most-easy-to-see change God made was between the Old Testament God of Retribution, and the NEW God of totally keeping out of the Retribution business.
If you really care, I could spend a few hours doing research, but your statement is a little strong.

And, then he states: “There are not varying degrees of “funness” after death. There is Heaven or Hell. There are certainly varying degrees of happiness in Heaven, or suffering in Hell, but there is no 'middle ground” between them’." … (Please cite the source of this statement.)

OK, you admit that there “are certainly varying degrees of happiness in Heaven, or suffering in Hell”.
This is (probably) a very True statement.
And, this is partially what I said (that you disagree with). ???

As far as there being no “Middle Ground” between Heaven and Hell … I assume that you are NOT a Catholic.
Most Protestants (and non-Christians) do not believe in a Purgatory.
You are one of them (or, you disagree with Catholic Church Doctrine).

And finally : "You are either eternally happy or eternally damned. One or the other."
I have read quite a bit of what various Saints have been revealed about the After-Life.
If you don’t believe in the Saints, well that’s OK with me (but I choose to believe a lot of what they say).

And, EVEN if Saints (or Sacred Texts) did not mention any differences in the After-Life, that does not mean that there is nothing except Heaven and Hell.
Not saying something exists, is NOT the same as saying that something does NOT exist.

And what about Abraham’s Bosom?
Isn’t THAT an After-Life place besides Heaven and Hell?

 

[fred_conty]

In a previous thread, I asked about something relating to the idea that God made us because He loved us.

I have a similar question. If God made us because He loved us, why did he make people whom He knew would choose to go to hell? In the 3rd edition Catechism, " ‘To love is to will the good of another.’ " (CCC 1766). However, Jesus says about Judas in Matthew 26:24, 24 " ‘The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.’ "

This seems to be a difficulty in need of resolution. Since God made Judas, He must have loved him. But if love is the willing of the good of another, then if God loved Judas, wouldn’t He have refrained from making him since it would have been better for Judas had he not been born? To generalize the question, why would God make any person that He knew would ultimately rebel against Him?

Please help me out here. This seems like a contradiction, but there’s probably some simple thing I’m overlooking.

The verse Pat Payne quoted from Wisdom 11: 23-24 answers it well:

But because you are almighty, you are merciful to all; you overlook sins and give your children time to repent. You love everything that exists and hate nothing that you have made; had you hated anything, you would not have formed it.

If God our Father created us, then he would be a good Father and provide for us all that is needed to bring his children into his home including time and mercy. He would do that alone because he is our Father, and Love itself, our Provider.

So he gives to each one whatever graces are needed. But if those graces aren’t used, whose fault is that?

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[DMC12]

God is perfect so how could he change? by becoming more perfect? makes no sense right, that is why God does not change, and this is my idea please tell me if its heretic or something. when we are born most of us are damned, even if we are born with only the original sin that does not condemns, but those who live long enough to sin, most likely will, so pretty much most of us are damned since the beginning, but then God enters the scene, so he is moving stuff in our favor so we avoid that destiny, that is why God make us, because He will be helping us to avoid Hell. so yes, His omniscience might know wether we are going to Hell, but his Omnipotence makes Him able to change that.