Why would Mary remain a virgin...after marriage?

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wmscott, what softened your heart and opened your mind?

this happens when one has a faith separated from that taught by the apostles and their descendants.

they fail to understand that the bible is a Catholic book, written by, for and about the Catholic Church…the text guarded by the Church…copied by the Church, particularly by Monks…translated by the Church. The Church takes The Book pretty seriously, and objects when it is mistranslated, misinterpreted and when books (7) are removed from it.
Hi Porknpie, It was not that my heart was softened or my mind opened. It was just a constant drain trying to explain to a lot of Protestants the importance and the truth regarding the Blessed Mother. It was like beating my head against the wall and no progress or willingness on the part of the Protestants to even try and understand the truth. They stubbornly hold on to the misconceptions and false teachings of their particular faith tradition and refuse to be enlightened. They are completely closed minded to anything other than what they already they think they know about the Blessed Mother.

As a note I am a convert and i do not ever remember having any issue with the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding the Blessed Mother. The Blessed Mother is so easily accepted and understood if a person has an open mind instead of believing that anything Catholic is wrong.
 
also, joseph knew that Mary was the spouse of the Holy Spirit and rightfully believed that she was not to be his, joseph’s, spouse. joseph understood that his relationship with Mary was unique beyond all other human relationships between a man and a woman. joseph had no intention of intruding on God’s unique and special relationship with Mary.
Well ,but was this for a time only ? What were his exact instructions regarding "touching "her ?
 
“I (Jesus) am a foreigner to my own family, a stranger to my own mother’s (Mary) children.For the zeal of thy house hath eaten me (Jesus) up” Psalm 69:8,9 Parenthesis mine.

You interpret this differently as we do the closing up of the “gate” scripture.
 
Well ,but was this for a time only ? What were his exact instructions regarding "touching "her ?
From the Protoevangelium of James (LINK)
  1. And Joseph, throwing away his axe, went out to meet them; and when they had assembled, they went away to the high priest, taking with them their rods. And he, taking the rods of all of them, entered into the temple, and prayed; and having ended his prayer, he took the rods and came out, and gave them to them: but there was no sign in them, and Joseph took his rod last; and, behold, a dove came out of the rod, and flew upon Joseph’s head. And the priest said to Joseph, You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the virgin of the Lord. But Joseph refused, saying: I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl. I am afraid lest I become a laughing-stock to the sons of Israel. And the priest said to Joseph: Fear the Lord your God, and remember what the Lord did to Dathan, and Abiram, and Korah; Numbers 16:31-33 how the earth opened, and they were swallowed up on account of their contradiction. And now fear, O Joseph, lest the same things happen in your house. And Joseph was afraid, and took her into his keeping. And Joseph said to Mary: Behold, I have received you from the temple of the Lord; and now I leave you in my house, and go away to build my buildings, and I shall come to you. The Lord will protect you.
  2. And she was in her sixth month; and, behold, Joseph came back from his building, and, entering into his house, he discovered that she was big with child. And he smote his face, and threw himself on the ground upon the sackcloth, and wept bitterly, saying: With what face shall I look upon the Lord my God? And what prayer shall I make about this maiden? Because I received her a virgin out of the temple of the Lord, and I have not watched over her. Who is it that has hunted me down? Who has done this evil thing in my house, and defiled the virgin? Has not the history of Adam been repeated in me? For just as Adam was in the hour of his singing praise, and the serpent came, and found Eve alone, and completely deceived her, so it has happened to me also. And Joseph stood up from the sackcloth, and called Mary, and said to her: O you who hast been cared for by God, why have you done this and forgotten the Lord your God? Why have you brought low your soul, you that wast brought up in the holy of holies, and that received food from the hand of an angel? And she wept bitterly, saying: I am innocent, and have known no man. And Joseph said to her: Whence then is that which is in your womb? And she said: As the Lord my God lives, I do not know whence it is to me.
  3. And Joseph was greatly afraid, and retired from her, and considered what he should do in regard to her. Matthew 1:19 And Joseph said: If I conceal her sin, I find myself fighting against the law of the Lord; and if I expose her to the sons of Israel, I am afraid lest that which is in her be from an angel, and I shall be found giving up innocent blood to the doom of death. What then shall I do with her? I will put her away from me secretly. And night came upon him; and, behold, an angel of the Lord appears to him in a dream, saying: Be not afraid for this maiden, for that which is in her is of the Holy Spirit; and she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. Matthew 1:20 And Joseph arose from sleep, and glorified the God of Israel, who had given him this grace; and he kept her.
So do you think St Joseph did not understand that he was not to touch the Blessed Mother. That he did not know what a temple virgin was and what you don’t do with one who has been consecrated to God. St Joseph was a good and faithful Jew and knew what his laws and faith teaches.
 
all held to Mary having no other children besides Jesus and being forever a virgin.
If they didn’t they were heretics . Helvidius , anyone. This debate is from the beginning.it is not protestant invention.
 
Can anyone freely touch holy objects? Read the OT. See my post #408
Read the NT. We (in the flesh,as was in the beginning) are His temple, His monstrance. We are “immaculate” by the blood of the Lamb. The OT had cleansing rites and were “perfect” by faith also. They were cleansed by believing in the future promise of the Messiah as we are by looking backward to the Messiah.
 
If they didn’t they were heretics . Helvidius , anyone. This debate is from the beginning.it is not protestant invention.
Is the concept of being a virgin for ones natural life beyond your comprehension. do you believe that a person can not be one?
 
Is the concept of being a virgin for ones natural life beyond your comprehension. do you believe that a person can not be one?
Right.Now please say we are all sex crazed today and are incapable of such comprehension. Well don’t but that is what some say at this juncture. There is nothing new under the sun, be it in righteousness and holy living or debauchery, be it today or Mary’s time.
 
Right.Now please say we are all sex crazed today and are incapable of such comprehension. Well don’t but that is what some say at this juncture. There is nothing new under the sun, be it in righteousness and holy living or debauchery, be it today or Mary’s time.
I think you misunderstand the intent of my question. I am just trying to understand your position since you feel that it is not possible that the Blessed Mother remained a virgin after Christs birth. nothing sinister.
 
Is the concept of being a virgin for ones natural life beyond your comprehension. do you believe that a person can not be one?
This does not answer Helvidius, who was merely trying to oppose those who preached marriage as “second class” or that Mary would have been degraded by the marriage bed and it’s fruit.
 
I think you misunderstand the intent of my question. I am just trying to understand your position since you feel that it is not possible that the Blessed Mother remained a virgin after Christs birth. nothing sinister.
I am sorry but me thinks I understand your intent all too fully. Where did I discuss from the vantage point of impossibilities ? As an early father wrote, “Let us not suppose because He can (do anything), that He has”. Scripture is the safeguard.
 
I am sorry but me thinks I understand your intent all too fully. Where did I discuss from the vantage point of impossibilities ? As an early father wrote, “Let us not suppose because He can (do anything), that He has”. Scripture is the safeguard.
The question was not sinister in nature, just trying to understand your POV.
 
This does not answer Helvidius, who was merely trying to oppose those who preached marriage as “second class” or that Mary would have been degraded by the marriage bed and it’s fruit.
It has nothing to do with being degraded but it is a different calling and purpose. It is the calling of any person who gives his or her life entirely to Christ. I truly believe that Mary and Joseph knew that their lives were to be centered solely on Christ. There is nothing degrading about that at all.
 
Read the NT. We (in the flesh,as was in the beginning) are His temple, His monstrance. We are “immaculate” by the blood of the Lamb. The OT had cleansing rites and were “perfect” by faith also. They were cleansed by believing in the future promise of the Messiah as we are by looking backward to the Messiah.
You’re on the right track. Given what you’ve stated, how is it that Mary received God before Christ’s atoning sacrifice?
 
If they didn’t they were heretics . Helvidius , anyone. This debate is from the beginning.it is not protestant invention.
Benhur, this is a very strange apologetics defense, one I have not read much of on CAF: to align oneself with heretics in the early church, on any subject.

I have to give you credit for honesty.
 
if the Gospel writers wanted refer to Jesus’ “brothers” as something other than uterine siblings, they could have used other Greek words that they themselves use in the Gospels for “relatives” & “kinsmen” (syggenes), “cousins” (anepsios or syggenis - with an “i”), such as Mark, Luke, John, & later Paul uses these available Greek words.
Not quite: συγγενεις, with an iota after the epsilon, is actually the nominative plural of συγγενης, i.e. a merely different inflection of the same word (like “child” and “children”). As “people of the same clan (γενος)”, it refers to relatives in a very broad sense. It is also usable for brothers (cf. Sophocles’ Oedipus at Colonus 1387).

Thus, Paul, in Romans 9:3-4, uses συγγενης and αδελφος as synonyms, saying, ηυχομην γαρ αυτος εγω αναθεμα ειναι απο του χριστου υπερ των αδελφων μου των συγγενων μου κατα σαρκα, οιτινες εισιν ισραηλιται (“For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites”). He thus uses αδελφος for others of his entire γενος, not just for members of his own household.

This exclusivity of denotation which you are trying to construct between αδελφος and συγγενης does not exist either in Greek or in biblical Greek. Thus, the fact that one is used in one verse and the other is used in another verse logically does not demonstrate that the verses refer to exclusive sets of people.

Meanwhile, had the Gospel writers really wanted to say that they were Jesus’ half-brothers, other children of Mary, Greek did have a term for consanguinity: συναιμος.

Ανεψιος, of which I can find no other example in the NT than Paul’s usage in Col 4:10, refers particularly to cousins, a very specific type of relationship. If the others mentioned were not the children of Jesus’ aunts or uncles, ανεψιος would be inappropriate. Both αδελφοι and συγγενεις, on the other hand, are broad enough to cover a whole range of people.
Same with Peter being the “adelphos” of Andrew
Who was their mother? It is not particularly significant, since, as already pointed out, the NT does use αδελφος for people who had different mothers. I just cannot remember there being any reference to her.
rather than simply “dismiss” that the “adelphos” of Jesus does not refer to uterine brothers, simply because one’s preconceived religious view says otherwise.
As previously noted, far from dismissing the possibility of αδελφοι referring to Mary’s other children, I have commented that such a thing is linguistically possible, but is not expressed in Scripture. Your assumption that it must be so is evidently based upon reading the English into the Greek, regardless of native speakers’ readings of it.
When you begin with the Word of God, rather than beginning with the religious view, you’ll discover that Scripture actually supports that they are Jesus’ half-brothers, and not any other relationship.
Sorry, but perhaps you missed my religious identification: I am not Catholic, and none of this comes from my religious views. It comes merely from reading the Greek.
 
Read the NT. We (in the flesh,as was in the beginning) are His temple, His monstrance. We are “immaculate” by the blood of the Lamb. The OT had cleansing rites and were “perfect” by faith also. They were cleansed by believing in the future promise of the Messiah as we are by looking backward to the Messiah.
Unfortunately nothing of what you wrote gave you permission to touch or defile holy things.
 
Unfortunately nothing of what you wrote gave you permission to touch or defile holy things.
Hi erricc, this also goes back to post 423 and it is sad that so many are willing to use flawed theology and errant personal interpretations (clueless) to irreverently put forth corrupt ideology. As you stated nothing of what some have wrote gave permission to touch or defile holy things.

These attacks on the Blessed Mother by many are just that, a Holy thing being defiled. The Blessed Mother being Holy, Full of Grace, and that all generations will call her blessed is under attack and Satan is working through the unsuspecting to attack the Mother of God.
 
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