Why would you NOT want to be Anglican?

[Tantum_ergo]

For YEARS I adored English history, identified with Elizabeth I, read everything I could find about the Tudors (fascinating people and time period). Loved all the “English” identity—the literature, especially. And I thought nothing could be ‘cooler’ than to be the wife of an English vicar, serving tea in the garden, etc.

But. . .while the individual Anglican (just like us ‘individual’ Catholics) can be an absolutely wonderful, marvelous Christian person. . .while the Book of Common Prayer 1928 language is glorious, the musical settings far more ‘suitable’ to my mind than the guitar twanging Haugen/Haas sludge, etc. . . .

Especially since the 1970s with first female ordination (and yes, I know a female ‘priest’ who is a kind, nice person), then the latest ‘gay’ rights and an even greater ‘peace and justice’ politicization than the worst that some of our Catholic dioceses have hauled out, I’ve looked further and further into not just the HISTORY of the Episcopal faith, but upon the ‘differences’ of said faith from the Catholic faith.

For me, no matter how many ‘similarities’ existed, the differences are too great. But I still love and respect my Anglican brothers and sisters as Christians and pray that ‘we may be one.’

 

[GKC]

For YEARS I adored English history, identified with Elizabeth I, read everything I could find about the Tudors (fascinating people and time period). Loved all the “English” identity—the literature, especially. And I thought nothing could be ‘cooler’ than to be the wife of an English vicar, serving tea in the garden, etc.

But. . .while the individual Anglican (just like us ‘individual’ Catholics) can be an absolutely wonderful, marvelous Christian person. . .while the Book of Common Prayer 1928 language is glorious, the musical settings far more ‘suitable’ to my mind than the guitar twanging Haugen/Haas sludge, etc. . . .

Especially since the 1970s with first female ordination (and yes, I know a female ‘priest’ who is a kind, nice person), then the latest ‘gay’ rights and an even greater ‘peace and justice’ politicization than the worst that some of our Catholic dioceses have hauled out, I’ve looked further and further into not just the HISTORY of the Episcopal faith, but upon the ‘differences’ of said faith from the Catholic faith.

For me, no matter how many ‘similarities’ existed, the differences are too great. But I still love and respect my Anglican brothers and sisters as Christians and pray that ‘we may be one.’

We thank you for your kind thoughts. and that includes we Anglicans who do not try to ordain the wrong matter, or marry the wrong matter, either. and are not in communion with those who do.

GKC

*posterus traditus Anglicanus *

 

[PaulinVA]

That big ole’ Anglican tent is ripping and the poles are coming down.

Because the Archbishop of Canterbury is just a figurehead, there is no one in charge, no one at all. There is no one to correct error.

One can believe whatever one wants. Transubstantiation? Sure. Consubstantiation? Okay. Bread and grape juice? Why not.

There is only one Truth, but the whole idea of Anglicanism is Catholicism and protestantism living together “in tension”. YOU can believe anything you want, because your church does not believe in Truth, just truth.

I say this in all Christian charity. Really.

 

[SIA]

That big ole’ Anglican tent is ripping and the poles are coming down.

Because the Archbishop of Canterbury is just a figurehead, there is no one in charge, no one at all. There is no one to correct error.

One can believe whatever one wants. Transubstantiation? Sure. Consubstantiation? Okay. Bread and grape juice? Why not.

There is only one Truth, but the whole idea of Anglicanism is Catholicism and protestantism living together “in tension”. YOU can believe anything you want, because your church does not believe in Truth, just truth.

I say this in all Christian charity. Really.

I’m not sure that you know what you are speaking of. You are certainly not speaking of the Anglicans in South America, Kenya, Uganda and others. Sounds like you know about the Episcopal church and that is far removed from real Anglicanism.

 

[SIA]

You were never a Catholic. I can tell. If you were a Catholic then you would have been a good Catholic and stayed. No one is saying that sexual abuse is part of the Church because it is not. You are a hypocrite and an anti-Catholic bigot for even bringing something like that into this discussion because it doesn’t belong here. Go start a thread about it somewhere else if you want to talk about it. On top of that, the only people with a legitimate reason to be upset about the sexual abuse scandal are CATHOLICS. Protestants have a far, FAR, FAR and away worse record of sexual misconduct including Child abuse, rape, sexual slavery and all manner of fith and pornography that I can not even begin to describe. Outside of the protestant world, in the athiest world, things get even worse. The two deadliest places for a child in America are in the Womb or a PUBLIC SCHOOL.

SO yes, the HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH IS PERFECT, because JESUS wants it that way.

Go spout your hate dribble somewhere else.

Hmm, I wonder how long I would reamin here without being kicked if I were to spew such hatred and anger toward a Catholic in here?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Hmm, I wonder how long I would reamin here without being kicked if I were to spew such hatred and anger toward a Catholic in here?

By implying in your other post that sexual abuse by “popes” was at the sanction of the Church, you pretty well did just that. Sexual abuse is not exclusively a Catholic problem, it’s a sin problem that you can easily find wherever you happen to look, unfortunately. The Catholic Church is taking drastic preventative measures to protect our children today - learning from past mistakes and doing what we can to heal wounds.

 

[Antegin]

As above, just wanted to know why not?

Why go Catholic light when you can enjoy the full Body/Blood/Soul and Divinity of Christ.

Its like the difference between Coke and Pepsi, Catholic is the real thing…

 

[SIA]

By implying in your other post that sexual abuse by “popes” was at the sanction of the Church, you pretty well did just that. Sexual abuse is not exclusively a Catholic problem, it’s a sin problem that you can easily find wherever you happen to look, unfortunately. The Catholic Church is taking drastic preventative measures to protect our children today - learning from past mistakes and doing what we can to heal wounds.

It’s not just a Catholic problem, but the Catholic church had a huge problem with that and I don’t believe that I spoke out of school on that. The statement was that the RCC was and is perfect. From where I am standing, perfect means without fault or blemish. It is totally fair to question the stumblings and misgivings of the RCC as I did. I never stated that my church is perfect nor would I ever imply it.

 

[jmcrae]

It’s not just a Catholic problem, but the Catholic church had a huge problem with that and I don’t believe that I spoke out of school on that. The statement was that the RCC was and is perfect.

It is. The Church as an official entity never committed, nor sanctioned, nor winked at, these sins. Individual sinners did, and these individuals were working well outside of their job descriptions.

If someone working for Mac’s Milk robs a liquor store during office hours, but without authorization from those in authority over him, we don’t say, “Oh, Mac’s Milk robbed a liquor store.” We lay the blame where it belongs - on the individual who committed the crime.

I don’t see why the same thing can’t be done with individuals in the Church who commit crimes. I don’t see why the Church needs to be blamed for crimes it didn’t authorize to be committed.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

It’s not just a Catholic problem, but the Catholic church had a huge problem with that and I don’t believe that I spoke out of school on that. The statement was that the RCC was and is perfect. From where I am standing, perfect means without fault or blemish. It is totally fair to question the stumblings and misgivings of the RCC as I did. I never stated that my church is perfect nor would I ever imply it.

The percentage of Catholic clergy involved in molestation cases is actually smaller than that of protestant clergy. I’ll try to dig out the source for that if you’re interested.

The Church, Herself, is perfect. She has perfectly preserved the doctrines given to the Apostles by Christ Himself. Individually, there have been some less than perfect members, but even the worst sinner did not change Catholic dogmas to fit their lifestyle and make it permissible.

 

[Bert68]

Honestly…I do not see how anyone…ever, could be duped into becoming Anglican…and I don’t understand how those raised Anglican do not convert to Catholicism…The whole existence of Anglicanism/Episcopalians is rooted in a Syphyllis infested, sex craved, self serving, hedonistic, overweight, control freak known as Henry VIII…a man once known as the Fidei Defensor, who quickly abandoned the Pope and the Church when he was not released from his sacramental vows to his wife. Why would anyone on God’s green earth follow such an obviously man made religion when they know the whole story.

Be nice. Be Catholic. Goes for everyone who argues strongly. Give gentle reasoning.

 

[mlchance]

Why not be Anglican? No Real Presence in the Eucharist. Priestesses. Unchaste homosexual priests. Spong, and others cut from the same cloth. In all seriousness, when you have bishops of a church openly questioning essential Christian doctrine (e.g., the Trinity) without resounding censure, there is something quite rotten in that church.

But I guess a church that became a national entity primarily as a tool to steal Catholic property was always on shaky ground.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[mikew262]

It is. The Church as an official entity never committed, nor sanctioned, nor winked at, these sins. Individual sinners did, and these individuals were working well outside of their job descriptions.

Actually the Church (at least some of the leadership) kind of did sanction and wink at the sex abuse scandal for many years. This is why it was so bad.

As much as you want to believe it, the Church has not always been perfect.

Having said that, Catholics should realize that these are the sins of man (who lead the Church), not of God. We should try to stay focused, and not let it affect our basic faith.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

As above, just wanted to know why not?

Peace and love :signofcross

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well… I don’t think Anglicanism is true (though it gets many things right). That’s the only good reason for not being Anglican.

In terms of personal taste… I don’t like the entanglements with the English state - even if they are mostly ceremonial, they seem very icky to me. I guess as of recently, the Prime Minister no longer helps select/suggest bishops… they really took their sweet time on that one, though. I’m also not so keen on the Henry VIII thing…

Even if Catholicism was out of the question, I guess it just seems to me that… if you’re Anglican and you’re theologically pretty orthodox, why wouldn’t you think Eastern Orthodoxy makes more sense? And on the other side of the coin, for people with less orthodox theology, what claim to authenticity does Anglicanism have over other forms of protestantism?

 

[PaulinVA]

I’m not sure that you know what you are speaking of. You are certainly not speaking of the Anglicans in South America, Kenya, Uganda and others. Sounds like you know about the Episcopal church and that is far removed from real Anglicanism.

No, I know exactly what I said and I meant to say it.

Just because ++Akinola is orthodox doesn’t mean that his Province is totally anglo-catholic. Anglicanism IS the big tent. Refer to the Elizabethan Settlement. It allows the belief of transubstantiation, consubstantiation, whatever.

I was speaking of Anglicanism. I would have brought up the Episcopal church if I was talking about Unitarian Universalists.

 

[jmcrae]

I would have brought up the Episcopal church if I was talking about Unitarian Universalists.

:clapping: Good one. :clapping:

 

[GKC]

No, I know exactly what I said and I meant to say it.

Just because ++Akinola is orthodox doesn’t mean that his Province is totally anglo-catholic. Anglicanism IS the big tent. Refer to the Elizabethan Settlement. It allows the belief of transubstantiation, consubstantiation, whatever.

I was speaking of Anglicanism. I would have brought up the Episcopal church if I was talking about Unitarian Universalists.

AFAIK, ++Akinola’s province isn’t even significantly Anglo-Catholic. Little in the orthodox 3rd world of Anglicanism is.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[jblake]

jmcrae;:

If so (I don’t actually know) are you saying that St. Joseph of Arimethea started an organization in England that was separate from the original Church, and not related to it organizationally?

Celtic Christianity. It was linked to what became Orthodox Christianity. (There are also some claims to a link with Parthanian Christianity.)

Theories about consecrated clergy:

• Paul consecrated them during his missionary journey to England;
• Druid priests who were converted automatically became clergy;
• Bishops from Smyrna performed the initial ordinations;

There is a lot of fringe speculation in the early history. Some of it can be easily demonstrated to be false. Some it it has credible support. Most of it relies on accepting datapoints as being factual, that might not be.

xan

jonathon

 

[GKC]

Celtic Christianity. It was linked to what became Orthodox Christianity. (There are also some claims to a link with Parthanian Christianity.)

Theories about consecrated clergy:

• Paul consecrated them during his missionary journey to England;
• Druid priests who were converted automatically became clergy;
• Bishops from Smyrna performed the initial ordinations;

There is a lot of fringe speculation in the early history. Some of it can be easily demonstrated to be false. Some it it has credible support. Most of it relies on accepting datapoints as being factual, that might not be.

xan

jonathon

One might try Lewis’ JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA AT GLASTONBURY.

I’m not an adherent, myself.

GKC

 

[valient_Lucy]

So of course you are uncomfortable with Rome, headed as it is by a head of state since the founding of the papal states.

Well, of course I did, and I felt equally uncomfortable when I read the history of the Emperor of Constantinople’s near deification by the Eastern church, and by the near deification of the Tsar in the Russian church.

Realistically speaking, I should have become Jewish (always did love Passover) but I’m not giving up ham. Or atheist, but the last time I tried atheism I found that atheism and I just don’t really get along that well.