Why you don't love your children

[Revelation13_16]

Hi guys,

I’d like you to read the following and perhaps we can all discuss it, preferably using our own minds.

I call it “Why you don’t love your children”.

Hell exists & is eternal suffering

If we aren’t born, we have a 0% chance of going to hell.

If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell.

So every parent decides to gamble with the soul of their child, by removing them from Total Safety (0%) and bringing them into Total Uncertainty. (50%)

Therefore, if you loved your children, you’d leave them in Total Safety (unborn)

But if you gamble by conceiving, you don’t love your children

Because love is selfless, and love is kind

And gambling with a life that isn’t yours and doesn’t ask to be born is selfish

So that’s why you don’t love your children

You only think you do

Can anyone argue with this?

God Bless,
Rev

 

[LilyM]

Hi guys,

I’d like you to read the following and perhaps we can all discuss it, preferably using our own minds.

I call it “Why you don’t love your children”.

Hell exists & is eternal suffering

If we aren’t born, we have a 0% chance of going to hell.

If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell.

So every parent decides to gamble with the soul of their child, by removing them from Total Safety (0%) and bringing them into Total Uncertainty. (50%)

Therefore, if you loved your children, you’d leave them in Total Safety (unborn)

But if you gamble by conceiving, you don’t love your children

Because love is selfless, and love is kind

And gambling with a life that isn’t yours and doesn’t ask to be born is selfish

So that’s why you don’t love your children

You only think you do

Can anyone argue with this?

God Bless,
Rev

Sure I love children - I love them so much that I want the best for them. The best for them isn’t non-existence, it’s heaven. They may have no chance of going to hell if they aren’t born, but neither do they have any chance of going to heaven, and the chance of eternal bliss with God is infinitely preferable to non-existence and the certain loss of heaven.

Besides which, if I choose to bring a child into the world that child and no-one else ultimately has by far the greatest say in whether he or she ends up in heaven or hell. So it is each person who determines their own outcome, not their parents.

Heaven is infinite happiness. Your children deserve a chance at it.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi .

• If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell.
  v

wrong, everyone has 100% chance of heaven and 100% chance of hell, based entirely on their own choices during their lifetime. just one of many fallacies underlying your argument. If one never exists, one has 0 chance of heaven, and heaven is our focus, not hell.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Rev, aren’t you leaving God out of the equation here? While we parents are the vessels for new life to spring forth, that is through the power and the wish of Almighty God. . .and the ‘reason’ that we are here ourselves.

Yes, we can ‘choose’ whether to marry, ‘choose’ to an extent the timing of our children (for good or lesser reasons), even in this society ‘choose’ to abort or prevent them entirely. But any choices which go against the good --and we were told to be fruitful and multiply, right, because that is good in itself even when we humans pervert this and other God-given commands–are the real causes and effects of evil. Obedience and the bringing forth of new life are not causes or effects for evil in themselves.

I second what Annie said. A near-sighted focus on arguments which themselves are both illogical and unproven might superficially give the appearance of great wisdom and profundity–but all the ‘secular’ or worldly wisdom in the universe isn’t even a grain or spec compared to the all-wisdom of God. Since HE has told us not only that children are gifts, that He knows us in the womb and before, that we are infinitely precious to Him and He even sent His own Son to die for us–why worry about false presumptions and worst cases by worldly standards? They aren’t going to endure. The truth will.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I call it “Why you don’t love your children”…
Can anyone argue with this?

There are lots of arguments against your faulty logic.

Hell exists & is eternal suffering

So far, you are correct. But you seem to think that the goal should be to to simply avoid hell. That’s false. We’re suppose to go to heaven, not just avoid hell.

If we aren’t born, we have a 0% chance of going to hell.

There is no “we” reading this that isn’t already born. Your “We” only exists if we exist.

Through parenthood we populate heaven. I think heaven if far greater than non-existance. And I don’t just love my children and wish heaven for them–I wish heaven for others too. I wish heaven for you, the original poster who already exist and who has a strange notion that the way to “win” the “game of life” is by not playing.

You and others reading this already face a chance of going to either heaven or hell. I hope that my life–which includes a large family–gives witness to you so that you will know unselfish love. I hope that by my raising my children well, they will also give witness, so that others may also know unselfish love and find God and heaven.

If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell.

Biggest false premise of yours,as already mentioned is your idea of 50% chance of hell. False.

So every parent decides to gamble with the soul of their child, by removing them from Total Safety (0%) and bringing them into Total Uncertainty. (50%)

“Total Uncertainty?” False again. I place my hope and trust in Jesus that He will save us. I provide my children with the sacrament of baptism, and raise them to know right from wrong, pray for them, and try to set a good example. If they end up anywhere other than heaven, that’s their choice, because they rejected the grace, which is the “total safety”–that Jesus offers.

But if you gamble by conceiving, you don’t love your children
Because love is selfless, and love is kind

You have a strange notion of unselfish love that does not match with the Bible verse John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son…” Christians are called to love like God, Who gave His son to us. Christian parents also give their sons, (and their daughters and themselves) to the world for the world’s salvation. Jesus did not come into the world to save us from existing–He came into the world to free us from sin and selfishness. I place my trust in Him for my soul and the souls of my children.

 

[gallo]

Is there a correlation between the OP’s screen name, Revelation 13:16 where it is written about the beast forcing people to turn from God and receive its mark, and statements attempting to persuade to not have children which is against God’s first command to “be fruitful and multiply”?

 

[mschrank]

Hi guys,

I’d like you to read the following and perhaps we can all discuss it, preferably using our own minds.

I call it “Why you don’t love your children”.

Hell exists & is eternal suffering

If we aren’t born, we have a 0% chance of going to hell.

If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell.

So every parent decides to gamble with the soul of their child, by removing them from Total Safety (0%) and bringing them into Total Uncertainty. (50%)

Therefore, if you loved your children, you’d leave them in Total Safety (unborn)

But if you gamble by conceiving, you don’t love your children

Because love is selfless, and love is kind

And gambling with a life that isn’t yours and doesn’t ask to be born is selfish

So that’s why you don’t love your children

You only think you do

Can anyone argue with this?

God Bless,
Rev

Yes, we don’t know God’s will.

Just think about it. I could walk into a preschool tomorrow, murder all the children in it and then surely, more of them would go to heaven than if I let them grow up right and become possibly hardened God-haters?

Maybe. It’s a fact.

However, you’re forgetting something else. God’s will. God’s plans. What God wants.

You are forgetting about His influence over their lives. You’re telling God that you don’t trust Him and you know best.

I’d reccomend less “free thinking” and better Catechesis.

 

[Revelation13_16]

The best for them isn’t non-existence, it’s heaven.

Why?

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Revelation13_16]

wrong, everyone has 100% chance of heaven and 100% chance of hell,

Wrong.

Flip a coin, Heads or Tails?

2 Choices. (H or T)

What’s the chance of getting Tails?

1 out of 2.

What’s the chance of getting Heads?

1 out of 2.

So both are a 50/50 probability.

based entirely on their own choices during their lifetime.

You haven’t even investigated Free Will, yet you assume one’s choices are entirely their own.

St. Augustine would differ with you.

just one of many fallacies underlying your argument.

You use the word ‘fallacy’ but clearly your logic and probability needs work.

Sorry.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[mschrank]

Rev, please, for the sake of all that is holy, go read some Chesterton, and then come back on here when you’ve grown some common sense.

 

[hasikelee]

Wrong.

Flip a coin, Heads or Tails?

2 Choices. (H or T)

What’s the chance of getting Tails?

1 out of 2.

What’s the chance of getting Heads?

1 out of 2.

So both are a 50/50 probability.

Probability would be the key assumption in the argument you presented.

We’re not talking about probability. We’re talking about a person making a choice, their own choice, to do what they want.

50/50 probability would only be valid if they had no choice and it was all chance.

When a person is conceived, they have a choice of heaven or hell. That’s not 50/50 probability.

 

[Revelation13_16]

Rev, aren’t you leaving God out of the equation here? …
Yes, we can ‘choose’ whether to marry,

If we don’t marry, we can’t have kids. (not supposed to anyway)

Therefore, ask God to give you the gift of celebacy like St. Paul had.

-and we were told to be fruitful and multiply,

No, this is a specific command for the early humans which many Christians use to pertain to all times for various reasons.

The fact is, God said once Adam ate from the tree, that we have knowledge of good of evil.

If you were a Jew in a concentration camp and you were allowed to breed (hypothetically) and you did - based on that command in Genesis - I’m sure God would chastize you severely for being so stupid for bringing an innocent beautiful baby into an evil and dangerous environment, most likely to be destroyed.

Same thing with Hell.

I second what Annie said. A near-sighted focus on arguments which themselves are both illogical

If you can fault the logic, go ahead, but don’t sit back and call it ‘illogical’ because you don’t like it, logic is not concerned with emotion.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Veritas41]

Hi guys,

I’d like you to read the following and perhaps we can all discuss it, preferably using our own minds.

I call it “Why you don’t love your children”.

• Hell exists & is eternal suffering
• If we aren’t born, we have a 0% chance of going to hell
  .And we have a 0% chance of knowing Love itself (God)
• If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell
  I would argue with that statistic – where does it come from? 50% chance of hell means 50% of the people ever born will go to hell – there’s no such substantiation for such a statistic
• So every parent decides to gamble with the soul of their child, by removing them from Total Safety (0%) and bringing them into Total Uncertainty. (50%)
  Again, I dispute your 50% statistic. You aren’t taking into account that our lives are not left up to random chance and are ordered by a loving God who loves His creatures, especially mankind, made in His image
• Therefore, if you loved your children, you’d leave them in Total Safety (unborn)
  According to this logic, if we all truly loved, we would not have children, which would make the human race become extinct, and without the human race on earth (speaking only of creatures, not God) love would cease, so how is not having children promoting love?
• But if you gamble by conceiving, you don’t love your children
  How can you love your children if you never have any? There’s nothing to love! Gambling refers to chance – the risk isn’t chance, but free will, which God has given us so that we may freely choose to love or reject Him
• Because love is selfless, and love is kind
• And gambling with a life that isn’t yours and doesn’t ask to be born is selfish
• So that’s why you don’t love your children
• You only think you do
  **Because someone “gambled” and conceived you, you are here to post these questions **
  Can anyone argue with this?

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Revelation13_16]

There are lots of arguments against your faulty logic.

Feel free to correct it Mr Critic.

So far, you are correct. But you seem to think that the goal should be to to simply avoid hell. That’s false. We’re suppose to go to heaven, not just avoid hell.

If we exist, we’re supposed to go to heaven.

If we don’t exist, we have no obligations either way.

Through parenthood we populate heaven.

Where’s that in the Bible?

I think heaven if far greater than non-existance. And I don’t just love my children and wish heaven for them–I wish heaven for others too. I wish heaven for you, the original poster who already exist and who has a strange notion that the way to “win” the “game of life” is by not playing.

Let’s say your children are on the edge of a cliff, and there’s another cliff on the other side.

On the other side, is untold happiness, so beautiful that it makes you cry just looking at it.

But the drop is huge and has flames, and if you fall in, you’ll burn forever.

One of your kids says “mom, I’m going to try and jump and make it to the other side”.

What do you say?

You and others reading this already face a chance of going to either heaven or hell.

Exactly, because the idiots who created us cared more about themselves than us.

Thanks Parents.

I hope that my life–which includes a large family–gives witness to you so that you will know unselfish love.

If you were truly unselfish, you would have loved God only instead of getting married and bringing kids into the world.

Don’t believe me, read Paul’s (God’s) comments in 1 Corinthians 7:34:

"The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. "

The most unselfish love is loving God, not getting married and breeding.

I hope that by my raising my children well, they will also give witness, so that others may also know unselfish love and find God and heaven.

Do you know how many good Christians have lost their kids to Atheism these days?

We all “hope” for the best but the fact is things sometimes fall apart.

Biggest false premise of yours,as already mentioned is your idea of 50% chance of hell. False.

Wrong, buy a probability textbook.

“Total Uncertainty?” False again.

No Catholic is ever assured of their salvation, only Protestants who believe “once saved, always saved” claim to be.

Hell however, is a certainty for all who don’t make heaven.

I place my hope and trust in Jesus that He will save us.

Hope and trust are certain, ergo, uncertainty. (“Faith is the hope for things unseen” - Hebrews)

I provide my children with the sacrament of baptism, and raise them to know right from wrong, pray for them, and try to set a good example. If they end up anywhere other than heaven, that’s their choice, because they rejected the grace, which is the “total safety”–that Jesus offers.

If they have Free Will, which St. Augustine didn’t agree with.

Besides, even if one of your kids was [insert something bad here - I dare not say it nor wish it] you still wouldn’t say they deserved hell, because all parents are biased - and that’s completely understandable.

You have a strange notion of unselfish love that does not match with the Bible verse John 3:16. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son…

God made a sacrifice for us.

He denied himself the pleasure of heaven to undergo pain and humiliation for us.

What have you sacrificed for him?

" Christians are called to love like God, Who gave His son to us. Christian parents also give their sons, (and their daughters and themselves) to the world for the world’s salvation.

Be like Mother Teresa, or St. Paul and give yourself for the world’s salvation.

If you add up how much time your pour into your kids and your marriage, and how much time pregnancy takes, you could have been evangelizing all around the world.

Jesus did not come into the world to save us from existing–He came into the world to free us from sin and selfishness. I place my trust in Him for my soul and the souls of my children.

Well, it’s too late now to do anything else isn’t it?

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Revelation13_16]

Is there a correlation between the OP’s screen name, Revelation 13:16 where it is written about the beast forcing people to turn from God and receive its mark, and statements attempting to persuade to not have children which is against God’s first command to “be fruitful and multiply”?

1. I chose my screen name because I don’t want anyone to go to hell (I wish it for nobody, not even my worst enemy)
2. If you take every commandment from the Torah as applicable to yourself now, I’ll expect to see you on CNN soon live from The Hague facing trial for Genocide.

Think.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Uncle_David]

If we aren’t born, we have a 0% chance of going to hell.

• Therefore, if you loved your children, you’d leave them in Total Safety (unborn)

How do you love something that doesn’t exist? I love my kids! They are a gift from God and I thank Him daily for their being in my life!

I will teach them the best I can - After that, it’s up to them and the Big Guy upstairs.

 

[Revelation13_16]

Yes, we don’t know God’s will.

Just think about it. I could walk into a preschool tomorrow, murder all the children in it and then surely, more of them would go to heaven than if I let them grow up right and become possibly hardened God-haters?

Exactly.

Everyone cries when a child does but seldom does anyone for an adult.

This is clearly the ‘faulty wisdom’ that the Bible talks about.

Children are sinless, they are covered by Grace and cannot go to hell.

Is it sad to see kids suffer and die? Ofcourse! They are so beautiful and precious, as Jesus said, it’s better to have a millstone around your neck and thrown into a lake if you harm a child!

But the saving grace to the death of a child is that that child goes to eternal rest, eternal bliss in the arms of God.

But, adults are accountable and aren’t innocent by default, therefore whatever tears we shed for dead children we should shed 10 times as many for dead adults.

But we don’t because our hearts are hard.

We have a concept of justice and believe people deserve to reap what they sow.

This is true, but not eternally, what awful crime could warrant eternal suffering?

Poor adults, lucky children.

However, you’re forgetting something else. God’s will. God’s plans. What God wants.

God wants us to love him with all our hearts, even forsaking our families to follow Jesus.

Breeding and marriage is the consolation prize for those who drop out of the real pious race.

You are forgetting about His influence over their lives. You’re telling God that you don’t trust Him and you know best.

I can’t disagree with this, as much as it hurts me to say so, I don’t trust God in this matter, that’s why I’m celibate and I’ll never have kids - because I don’t want to risk their souls.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Revelation13_16]

How do you love something that doesn’t exist?

You love them in your heart.

You can imagine what they would’ve been like and you see shades of them in other people’s children.

But you know, 100%, that your ‘never born’ children, will never suffer pain on this earth, or in hell, because they live in your imagination, where noone can hurt them.

Ever.

I will teach them the best I can - After that, it’s up to them and the Big Guy upstairs.

Yet if you never had them, their fates would be entirely in your hands, and certain of never suffering.

Ever.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Veritas41]

I can’t disagree with this, as much as it hurts me to say so, I don’t trust God in this matter, that’s why I’m celibate and I’ll never have kids - because I don’t want to risk their souls.

God Bless,
Rev

I’m sorry to hear of your lack of trust in God. If you can’t trust God in this matter, then can you trust Him in anything?

 

[mapleoak]

If we are born, we have a 50% chance of going to hell.
So every parent decides to gamble with the soul of their child, by removing them from Total Safety (0%) and bringing them into Total Uncertainty.

No chance or gambling involved. One does not go to Heaven if they are ‘lucky’ or Hell if ‘unlucky’. Ones Eternal Rest or Eternal Torment is entirely of ones own choosing. No chances.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak