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Anesti33
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And more money always equals better education. Sure.
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Gertabelle
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More money means those schools can offer higher salaries and better working conditions — and can therefore take the pick of the crop of teachers. It means the best teachers and the lowest turnover rates among staff.
Yeah, there are a few of us who chose lower salaries because we wanted to work in poorer areas — that’s my Catholic faith in action. But years ago, my school district made the decision to funnel as much money as possible
into teacher salaries. Even though we are a small district with a tiny budget compared to others in the area, we have consistently led the way or kept in lockstep with the salaries of giant neighboring districts.
This. Matters.
Yeah, there are a few of us who chose lower salaries because we wanted to work in poorer areas — that’s my Catholic faith in action. But years ago, my school district made the decision to funnel as much money as possible
into teacher salaries. Even though we are a small district with a tiny budget compared to others in the area, we have consistently led the way or kept in lockstep with the salaries of giant neighboring districts.
This. Matters.
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Anesti33
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I always, always, always vote “No” on those bothersome “Education Bond Issues” that always come up on my ballot.
The public school system is always begging for money. The public teachers always demand higher salaries. Everyone needs more supplies and more technology in the classroom because if everybody doesn’t have a Macbook Pro and gigabit Internet, they’re going to fall behind as a STEM mecca, and then what will happen to our poor kids?
No, go away. You don’t need more money. I support school choice and homeschooling. Good Catholic schools can still be found, but they are an exception.
The public school system is always begging for money. The public teachers always demand higher salaries. Everyone needs more supplies and more technology in the classroom because if everybody doesn’t have a Macbook Pro and gigabit Internet, they’re going to fall behind as a STEM mecca, and then what will happen to our poor kids?
No, go away. You don’t need more money. I support school choice and homeschooling. Good Catholic schools can still be found, but they are an exception.
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aroosi
Guest
It is not like this everywhere in the world. I grew up in Europe. Over there too schools are funded using taxes but the funding is redistributed also according to the needs so there is a certain uniformity in the means that every community can access. Here in US good areas get more funding from taxes and keep it for their own schools, unfortunately a system like the one in Europe would be labeled in US as socialist…aroosi:
Or maybe, because school funding is tied to property taxes, the wealthier neighborhoods have better funded schools.
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Just saying.
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I would also like to point out that parents are the primary educators of their children. This is Catholic teaching:
CCC 2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues . This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them.
This was a new concept to me when I first became a Catholic. Secular society, as well as many non-Catholic Christians, thinks of an “educator” as a specialist, i.e., a teacher. We need to be mindful that when we send our children to school, we are just “subbing out” the role that, in a perfect world, we would be fulfilling ourselves. Again, I’m not sure a lot of non-Catholics “get this”. Those Christians who homeschool certainly do. But do this — stand outside of your nearest Episcopal, or Methodist, or Presbyterian church one Sunday, go up to people at random, and ask them “who is the primary educator of your children?”. I’m quite confident they’ll say “the teachers at school”.
I don’t really expect that anyone will do this — to say the least, they’d look at you as though you were a bit strange — but if you did, I have to think this is the answer you’d get. They’re not bad people, they’ve just never thought it through. I’m sure there are exceptions.
CCC 2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues . This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them.
This was a new concept to me when I first became a Catholic. Secular society, as well as many non-Catholic Christians, thinks of an “educator” as a specialist, i.e., a teacher. We need to be mindful that when we send our children to school, we are just “subbing out” the role that, in a perfect world, we would be fulfilling ourselves. Again, I’m not sure a lot of non-Catholics “get this”. Those Christians who homeschool certainly do. But do this — stand outside of your nearest Episcopal, or Methodist, or Presbyterian church one Sunday, go up to people at random, and ask them “who is the primary educator of your children?”. I’m quite confident they’ll say “the teachers at school”.
I don’t really expect that anyone will do this — to say the least, they’d look at you as though you were a bit strange — but if you did, I have to think this is the answer you’d get. They’re not bad people, they’ve just never thought it through. I’m sure there are exceptions.
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TC3033
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And then people wonder why education falls behind…
Hmm, where are you at? The school district I live in has never passed a bond/referendum for increased salaries but rather tools and facilities that our district needs… At least since I’ve been here. If they tried to increase salaries via referendum or bond, it’d never go (be we’re one of the lowest funded districts in the state for a reason… :man_shrugging:t2
Do you understand how much of the money I make goes to my wife’s classroom supplies (I’m going to guess no, but it’s worth asking).
Honestly, you sound kind of jaded.
According to what? Are you in one of the better funded school districts in your area or lowest?
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TC3033
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I honestly would take you up on that bet…, but that’s OK. It’s a hypothetical anyways.
I’m thankful of the education that I received at school… :man_shrugging:t2:
blackforest
Well-known member
We float back and forth between school and homeschool, and I agree. There are trade-offs to both options. And homeschool and conventional public school aren’t the only two options. There are homeschool hybrid programs with classroom time, charter schools, etc.
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phil19034
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It is true that MOST teachers are good. However, it is naive to think that socialists and communists with an agenda don’t become teachers too.
Communists and socialists target education and seek out those jobs, as well as other areas like law, journalism, entertainment, etc.
Private schools are also subject to this same kind of corruption, however, the difference is simply that it’s easier to remove teachers who don’t align with the school’s mission. And if the private school changes their mission, parents can pick a different private school.
Example: just look at how many Catholic schools are no longer Catholic and have removed crosses and statues of Saints because they say it’s offensive to non-Catholic students. The Catholic schools who do this are really no longer Catholic. They might be non-denominational Christian at most or believe in “Catholic values,” but they are no longer religiously Catholic.
My point, communists and socialists seek to change our society. And while not every single communist and socialist agrees with using violence and sinful tactics, the truth is that a very large percentage does.
And just as holy devout Catholic teachers become teachers because they wish to form the minds & hearts of children by teaching them a Catholic worldview; the SAME is true with socialists and communists. Even “well meaning” socialists & communists want to spread their worldview to children. So once a public school has an administration who supports or caves to the socialist/communist world views, you really start to see some very dangerous ideas taking root in schools.
I pray that people realize that while MOST teachers are very good people - there are some out there with nefarious motives and we need to keep an eye out for them.
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Could it be that they want to create an environment more friendly to non-Catholic students and parents, because they want to attract more students who wish to avoid the public schools, and who pay full “rack rate” as opposed to subsidized tuition that parishioner families typically receive?
At my son’s former Catholic school, I would say the majority of the teachers were non-Catholic, and “who’s Catholic and who’s not” was a topic that nobody ever brought up. When I went to Catholic school “back in the day”, non-Catholic teachers and students might as well have had a sign strung around their necks that said “hey, I’m not Catholic”. Nobody was mistreated on account of it, it was just common knowledge.
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phil19034
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Then the school is not “Catholic.” It’s simply “Christian.” The mission of a Catholic School is to TEACH and DEFEND the Catholic faith to Catholic children. Social Justice & evangelization to non-Catholics is not the primary mission.phil19034:
Could it be that they want to create an environment more friendly to non-Catholic students and parents, because they want to attract more students who wish to avoid the public schools, and who pay full “rack rate” as opposed to subsidized tuition that parishioner families typically receive?
At my son’s former Catholic school, I would say the majority of the teachers were non-Catholic, and “who’s Catholic and who’s not” was a topic that nobody ever brought up. When I went to Catholic school “back in the day”, non-Catholic teachers and students might as well have had a sign strung around their necks that said “hey, I’m not Catholic”. Nobody was mistreated on account of it, it was just common knowledge.
Non-Catholics should be welcomed, but they should understand that they are attending a Catholic school and that the kids will be taught the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith shouldn’t be watered down simply to attract more non-Catholics and make them feel comfortable. That’s not the mission of Catholic schools.
NOW - if a school wants to do that, fine - simply change the name to “Christian School,” “Mission School,” or become non-sectarian.
But a “Catholic school” should be focused on forming DEVOUT Catholic children.
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I couldn’t agree more emphatically.HomeschoolDad:
Then the school is not “Catholic.” It’s simply “Christian.” The mission of a Catholic School is to TEACH and DEFEND the Catholic faith to Catholic children. Social Justice & evangelization to non-Catholics is not the primary mission.
Non-Catholics should be welcomed, but they should understand that they are attending a Catholic school and that the kids will be taught the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith shouldn’t be watered down simply to attract more non-Catholics and make them feel comfortable. That’s not the mission of Catholic schools.
NOW - if a school wants to do that, fine - simply change the name to “Christian School,” “Mission School,” or become non-sectarian.
But a “Catholic school” should be focused on forming DEVOUT Catholic children.
At my son’s school, the Catholicism was “there” — all students recited a decade of the rosary at the beginning of the day — but I always got the feeling that the “hard truths” were deliberately ignored, or at best, glossed over. We live in an area where, for various reasons, people who can afford it, seek out a private school for their children, rather than a public school. The Catholic schools (at least the ones on this side of town) seem to try to be “all things to all people” and attempt to offer vast amounts of enrichment, which attracts wealthy families seeking a top-notch education for their children. In short, they seem to market themselves as a somewhat-lower-cost alternative to the elite private academies. There is nothing per se “wrong” with this, but I do have a concern that Catholic children from lower-income families are shut out of this process (in all fairness, there is financial aid), and that distinctively Catholic teachings and practices are blurred. They wouldn’t be teaching elementary school children about things like birth control and divorce-and-remarriage, but in the higher grades, I have to wonder how these are presented. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably just like the parishes approach it — never bring the matter up and pretend the problem doesn’t exist. (Again, in all fairness, I will have to acknowledge that the high school is militantly pro-life.)
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TC3033
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Isn’t that illegal? Every school referendum or bond I’ve voted for was earmarked for something specific, and that’s what it has gone to. The board can’t just re-route the money to administration… (my wife’s been teaching almost 20 years).
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blackforest
Well-known member
How many? I’m asking with sincerity. I’ve never heard of any parochial school doing this, and I can’t imagine any bishop standing for it.
I know of one school that is very Catholic. But the Diocese cannot afford to sponsor it, so they used the phrase “in the Catholic tradition.”
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Allegra
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Some parents object to literally everything. Teachers are concerned that parents will be emailing them about everything from the Little Johnny getting called on more than their kid, to why the teacher doesn’t read whatever book their teacher read to them in third grade, to the inappropriateness of the crucifix hanging on Little Consuela’s Wall. Which they do because, well, some people are like that and some people who are like that have children that attend public school. There’s nothing that can really be done about it, but it is something teachers are worried about.
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phil19034
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I’m not personally aware of any “parochial Catholic schools” doing this, but I’ve heard of “independent Catholic Schools” that have & Catholic colleges too.
San Domenico in San Anselmos, CA is a great example (high profile example) of an “Independent Catholic School” that removed Catholic statues, etc to make non-Catholics feel welcome. This led to such an uproar that a few months later, the school officially stopped being Catholic. They were the first & oldest Catholic school in California.
I’ve been inside a Catholic college classroom (I’m not going to name it) where the Crosses were removed from the classrooms and you could see the outline of the Cross due to the faded paint.
I’ve also been inside newer classroom buildings at a Catholic college where crosses are no longer installed in any of the newer buildings. These colleges haven’t started removing crosses (yet), but they are no longer installing them either on/in new buildings.
I’ve also seen a Catholic college who removed Crosses from the top of a few campus buildings (again, I’m not going to name them).
As FYI for any one who wants to know:
- Parochial Catholic schools are directly ran/sponsored by the parish and/or diocese.
- Independent Catholic Schools are directly ran/sponsored by a religious order and/or a group of lay people, independent of any parishes & diocese.
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