Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[Aloysium]

a naturally evolving reality is the most reasonable thing for a timeless being to create

And yet it is revealed that:

Gen 1: 26-27 - Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals. So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

and

Gen 2:7 - Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

This describes an act of God, not anything He allowed.

I read your words to suggest that the painting evolved from the paint, which sounds unreasonable.

Perhaps you might explain how God did this from your perspective.

 

[IWantGod]

Perhaps you might explain how God did this from your perspective.

Subatomic interactions, chemical reactions, the laws of physics by which we see the gradual development of natures. This is the reality created by God, and it is the reality that science has revealed. Look in any science book.

 

[IWantGod]

I read your words to suggest that the painting evolved from the paint, which sounds unreasonable.

That the world developed from paint sounds unreasonable to me too. And i would never say such a thing.

 

[IWantGod]

And yet it is revealed that:

Gen 1: 26-27 - Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals. So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

The Catholic Church has made it clear that the natural evolution of the human body is not heresy or against Church teaching. So you are going to have to admit that any literal interpretation of how Adam came to be, biologically speaking, is your own interpretation.

 

[rossum]

Perhaps you might explain how God did this from your perspective.

Start with Genesis 1:24 “And God said, “Let the earth produce living creatures…”

Hence, in essence living non-human animals are earth/clay/dust.

Now Genesis 2:7 “Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground…” Which is another way of saying that he formed man from previously existing animals: earth → animals → humans.

This is confirmed by the next part of Genesis 2:7 “… and breathed into his nostrils.” Nostrils are part of the physical body, so just before God breathed, man’s physical body existed. The Church allows that man’s physical body can be formed by evolution.

God used evolution to form man’s physical body, including nostrils, and then gave Adam a human soul, which he did not give to the other animals. God’s breathing only applies to man, not to animals.

$0.02

rossum

 

[Aloysium]

Aloysium:

Perhaps you might explain how God did this from your perspective.

Subatomic interactions, chemical reactions, the laws of physics by which we see the gradual development of natures. This is the reality created by God, and it is the reality that science has revealed. Look in any science book.

They are insufficient to result in the complexity that is observed,
An over-riding order must be imposed on those rudimentary physical relationships.
Science is only capable of describing what is and hence there is talk of randomness.
This is because there exists no material cause for living organisms.

As to science books, I’ve got an early edition of Watson’s Molecular Biology of the Gene, a required text for an undergraduate course bearing the same name, on a personal journey that began some fifty years ago. It sits with others that would qualify as relevant to this scientific discussion, in a storage locker, in boxes to be sent to recycling upon my death. I am most certainly not disagreeing with the fundamental science but rather its interpretation, the story that is formed from the facts, which are actually best explained by creation.

 

[Aloysium]

So you are going to have to admit that any literal interpretation of how Adam came to be, biologically speaking , is your own interpretation.

Besides God, who is the Truth, to whom else am I responsible for knowing the truth, but myself, And, what I learn I have a duty to share. Take it or leave it.

 

[IWantGod]

They are insufficient to result in the complexity that is observed,

I don’t know that to be true. If this can happen in nature…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

…then I have no reason to think that something complex cannot be the result of biological processes or that biology cannot be the result of chemistry.

If it’s God’s will then i don’t see why not.

 

[IWantGod]

Besides God, who is the Truth, to whom else am I responsible for knowing the truth, but myself, And, what I learn I have a duty to share. Take it or leave it.

So long as you admit that any literal interpretation of how Adam came to be, biologically speaking , is your own interpretation and is not something that Catholics are required to believe, then i have no reason to think that you are not acting in good faith.

 

[Aloysium]

This image may produce a sense of wonder, but it isn’t complex, being easily put to words in terms of crystalline structures. What is complex is the interconnectedness of the nervous system, which is the physical manifestation of the our being now experiencing this sensory perception, along with the words and associated feelings that lead to action, in other words the structure of this event that is the totality of our discussion, here and now.

 

[IWantGod]

but it isn’t complex,

It is complex, it is a cube and it has formed naturally, and that is precisely why it’s a wonder to behold. You wouldn’t think it to be possible, and yet it is. I see no reason why biological complexity cannot form naturally.

 

[Aloysium]

is not something that Catholics are required to believe

Believe what you will.

what I learn I have a duty to share. Take it or leave it.

It is complex,

The complexity of a system we may generally consider to be determined by the number of constituents parts and the number of ways they interact, in addition to that system’s interactions with others of its kind, and also as a component of any and all larger systems of which it is a part. We can think of it in terms of the number of words that would be utilized in describing these events. The crystal is simple and the formation of such a shape would have a predictive value, which I would admit may equal that of being struck by lightning. Biological forms are far more complex, and unpredictable if we take into consideration the sorts of molecular confrigurations taken spontaneously by such atoms as Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Chlorine and so on.

 

[IWantGod]

Believe what you will.

No it’s not believe what i will. It’s the truth. If you can’t get that right, why should i trust anything you say about Evolution?

 

[IWantGod]

Biological forms are far more complex,

And yet scientists have identified the mechanism by which species evolve (DNA) and the fact that we share DNA with other species. That in it’s self is evidence for the evolution of species.

This probability argument you are going for does not change the evidence in support of evolution. You have no scientific support for your position.

 

[rossum]

This image may produce a sense of wonder, but it isn’t complex

That depends on how you measure complexity. Given the number of atoms involved and their coordinates in space-time for position, velocity and angular momentum (which are all highly constrained) then those crystals are complex on some measures.

If your measure of complexity is “cannot be formed by natural forces, but only by intelligence” then you are assuming what you have to prove, and restricting the methods that God can use to form something complex.

God, with perfect foresight, set the laws of the physical universe and also set the starting conditions. Hence, anything resulting from those laws and those starting conditions is exactly as God planned it. Science merely looks at how those laws and those starting conditions work out over time.

A God who cannot use nature, but is constrained to direct intervention, is not an omnipotent God, because some methods are barred.

rossum

 

[Aloysium]

Aloysium:

Biological forms are far more complex,

And yet scientists have identified the mechanism by which species evolve (DNA) and the fact that we share DNA with other species. That in it’s self is evidence for the evolution of species.

This probability argument you are going for does not change the evidence in support of evolution. You have no scientific support for your position.

DNA is information in action. There is no mechanism whereby putting atoms together will result in its formation. It exists as part of the totality which is the cell, involving epigenetic factors which influence its expression and can go on to alter its structure. As well, the shape of the molecule provides information that is in addition to that contained by the base pairs of which it is formed. Other features of the cellular mechanism which is the basis of reproduction, growth, development and maintenance of the living form, are processes which heal damage done by random physical factors that evolutionary theories would posit as the source of diversity. The scientific evidence fits better a story of creation. Same evidence, a clearer picture, with God at the Centre.

 

[Techno2000]

Aloysium:

but it isn’t complex,

It is complex, it is a cube and it has formed naturally, and that is precisely why it’s a wonder to behold. You wouldn’t think it to be possible, and yet it is. I see no reason why biological complexity cannot form naturally.

Environment condition can change in a heartbeat, compared to how slowly macroevolution takes.There’s no way those two things somehow dovetailed perfectly together to produce the incredible complexity of life on Earth.

 

[Wozza]

A God who cannot use nature, but is constrained to direct intervention, is not an omnipotent God, because some methods are barred.

rossum

It would seem to me that if God decided to write a computer programme (let’s say to mimic the process of evolution) and wanted a specific result, then that result would obtain. I can’t see that He would need to show up every so ofen and fine tune it.

That’s not God. But it seems that so many want to restrict Him.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

IWantGod:

Aloysium:

but it isn’t complex,

It is complex, it is a cube and it has formed naturally, and that is precisely why it’s a wonder to behold. You wouldn’t think it to be possible, and yet it is. I see no reason why biological complexity cannot form naturally.

Environment condition can change in a heartbeat, compared to how slowly macroevolution takes.There’s no way those two things somehow dovetailed perfectly together to produce the incredible complexity of life on Earth.

They don’t have to dovetail perfectly. If the change in the environment is small enough that at least some of the old organisms survive, then only those that are least affected by the change will survive. The next generation again only the most survivable will survive. If the population dies out before evolution can catch up, then it dies out. It happened a lot.

Another possible scenario for a sudden environment change is where the organism has a wide range, extending beyond the area where the environment changed. So even if all of the organisms in the affected area died out due to the sudden change, there would still be a reservoir of unaffected organisms nearby. Some of those organisms might try to migrate slowing into the area that was affected. This could go on for a very long time, giving evolution time enough to develop an adaptation to the new environment which then moves back in to its old niche.

 

[buffalo]

Your source is misinforming you, either deliberately or through ignorance. You should not rely on a source which does either.

Piano’s mostly have 88 keys.