Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[LeafByNiggle]

PickyPicky:

Uriel1:

and as we read, “Cosmology is unique in science in that it is a very large intellectual edifice based on a very few facts.” Halton C. Arp, et al., The Extra Galactic Universe p 8

This has nothing to do with evolution.

Oh it does my friend. Without abiogenesis, it leaves Genesis as the only plausible explanation

Not true. Genesis says God created life in a very specific manner. Another possibility is that God created life is some different manner. You still don’t have to resort to abiogenesis, and you can have evolution too.

PickyPicky:

Uriel1:

Ah, but it an integral part, and Darwin discussed it “in his warm little pond” letter

No, it is not an integral part. The theory of evolution stands or falls on its own evidential strength.

Perhaps you should start a thread “Why You Should Believe Abiogenesis Could Not Happen” or “ Why You Should Believe Fr Lemâitre Didn’t Know What He Was Talking About”. Then you could concentrate in this thread on the theory of evolution.

If you think evolution is true you surely must have an idea of how the first life started.

No, they are different theories. It is possible to believe one and have no idea about the other.

 

[Uriel1]

The Original Genesis Proposition was that God made all things according to their kind, and did it all in 6 days. The evolutionists have a theory (many theories) and dispose of God.

The problem is that the evolutionists are all fallible, eg. Fantastically Wrong: What Darwin Really Screwed Up About Evolution | WIRED

While God himself didn’t just say that he made everything in 6 days, he actually wrote it down
Exodus 20:11 and 31:17-18

So if you want to reject Exodus 20:11 and 31:17-18, by all means do so, but give us an alternative to how you think that life started, and more importantly whether you accept Christ or reject him too

 

[Edgar]

Thanks for the update. Still no news

68,000 generations of E. coli represent about 1.36 milllion human years. No news after 1.36 million years. Hmmm …

 

[Edgar]

That God created suns and planets before bacteria, and bacteria before grasses and trees, and those before fish and birds and dinosaurs, later to bring mammals and lastly we ourselves into existence is not evolution; it is the layering and shaping of an environmental whole in which we can dwell, we in whom all nature may know its Creator.

Whichever way we interpret the history of life on earth, any attempts to explain it with the puny tools of science are vain, delusional, worthless and beneath the dignity of the noble science of biology.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The Original Genesis Proposition was that God made all things according to their kind, and did it all in 6 days. The evolutionists have a theory (many theories) and dispose of God.

The don’t “dispose” of God. They just don’t mention Him. Why should they mention him in a scientific theory?

While God himself didn’t just say that he made everything in 6 days, he actually wrote it down
Exodus 20:11 and 31:17-18

Catholic teaching does not require that we take 6-day creation as literal scientific fact.

Whichever way we interpret the history of life on earth, any attempts to explain it with the puny tools of science are vain, delusional, worthless and beneath the dignity of the noble science of biology.

No, it is what the science of biology does.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

So you don’t see how some of us could have a problem with this ?

Out of curiosity, do you believe Genesis chapters 1-3 literally?

Yes…I believe in the supernature.

 

[PickyPicky]

The evolutionists […] dispose of God.

You know very well that millions of Christians accept the theory of evolution.

The problem is that the evolutionists are all fallible

It is my firm belief that we are all fallible.

give us an alternative to how you think that life started, and more importantly whether you accept Christ or reject him too

None of that has any relevance to the scientific reliability of the theory of evolution.

 

[Uriel1]

You know very well that millions of Christians accept the theory of evolution.

I don’t believe that’s true; Christians believe that Bible is the inspired work of God and God said, and furthermore He wrote it down, that he made the world and every creature according to its kind in 6 days Exodus 20:11 and 31:17-18

So if you want to reject Exodus 20:11 and 31:17-18, by all means do so, but the theory of evolution cannot explain how life began, cannot demonstrate from the fossils one species becoming another (can’t find the fossils) and cannot explain the irreducible complexity in organs, nor between specialized animals and their specialized complex relationship with food sources

You quoted me saying: “The problem is that the evolutionists are all fallible”

But that’s not quite what I said, is it? I said

The problem is that the evolutionists are all fallible, eg. https://www.wired.com/2014/12/fantastically-wrong-thing-evolution-darwin-really-screwed/

Without God life’s meaningless and we are all fallible but if we live in Christ we are saved. Atheists have no hope of being saved in an eternal life as they, like Darwin, reject God.

None of that has any relevance to the scientific reliability of the theory of evolution.

Evolution: as we saw, the theory of evolution cannot explain how life began, cannot demonstrate from the fossils one species becoming another (can’t find the fossils) and cannot explain the irreducible complexity in organs, nor between specialized animals and their specialized complex relationship with food sources. So give us an alternative to how you think that life started, because if you can’t evolution is a non starter, and more importantly whether you accept Christ or reject him too

Finally, as one who professes no religion, why are you on a Catholic site? God love you friend

 

[mVitus]

I don’t believe that’s true; Christians believe that Bible is the inspired work of God and God said, and furthermore He wrote it down , that he made the world and every creature according to its kind in 6 days Exodus 20:11 and 31:17-18

The Catholic Church founded by Jesus has said a Catholic may accept evolution (or 6-day). So if you want to say that a Catholic cannot accept evolution and be in opposition the Church and mandate others to follow your private interpretation of the Bible, well I don’t know what to say.

 

[PickyPicky]

You know very well that millions of Christians accept the theory of evolution.

I don’t believe that’s true

Astonishing remark. Here’s Pew from 2013:

A majority of white evangelical Protestants (64%) and half of black Protestants (50%) say that humans have existed in their present form since the beginning of time. But in other large religious groups, a minority holds this view. In fact, nearly eight-in-ten white mainline Protestants (78%) say that humans and other living things have evolved over time. Three-quarters of the religiously unaffiliated (76%) and 68% of white non-Hispanic Catholics say the same. About half of Hispanic Catholics (53%) believe that humans have evolved over time, while 31% reject that idea.

And that’s just in the US, where opinions like yours seem particularly prevalent.

Loading…

www.pewforum.org

 

[Aloysium]

The don’t “dispose” of God. They just don’t mention Him. Why should they mention him in a scientific theory?

We’re not talking about building about a refrigerator, a nuclear bomb, or the latest blood pressure medication, but of our very existence, how it is that we are here now doing this; if one does not bring God, to the very centre of the conversation, let alone mention His name, one is speaking pure and utter nonsense.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Those are the rules of the game. Those rules are called “The Scientific Method.”

 

[Elf01]

Yes…I believe in the supernature.

So were there literal trees of life and knowledge of good and evil?
Were Adam and Eve blind until they ate the fruit?

 

[Aloysium]

The scientific method tells us about the nature of matter and how it can be manipulated. What it reveals is better explained by creation than evolution. There is much confusion about evolution. It’s a story.

 

[Aloysium]

Techno2000:

Yes…I believe in the supernature.

So were there literal trees of life and knowledge of good and evil?
Were Adam and Eve blind until they ate the fruit?

This should be shown as an example, in every dictionary of what constitutes a straw man fallacy.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The scientific method tells us about the nature of matter and how it can be manipulated.

No, the scientific method is a method. They are the rules of the game. How that game plays out and what it tells us comes later. But the method is just the rules we play by when we set out to do science. Don’t confuse the rules of science with the object of scientific studies.

 

[Aloysium]

I’m not sure how the message has not come across, since it’s been repeatedly stated, the argument is not about the science, nor the worth of the scientific method. It is the myth of evolution that is at issue. It is a framework that unfortunately people have great difficulty separating from the facts. This device, that I am using to communicate this message, is a testament to our ingenuity, as we are to God’s. if we reduce people, life itself to the utilitarian and materialistic foundations of applied science and elevate them to the level of creative properties, all we’ve done is construct an illusion, believing it, we enter the realm of delusion.

 

[Uriel1]

PickyPicky:

You know very well that millions of Christians accept the theory of evolution.

I don’t believe that’s true

Astonishing remark. Here’s Pew from 2013:

A majority of white evangelical Protestants (64%) and half of black Protestants (50%) say that humans have existed in their present form since the beginning of time. But in other large religious groups, a minority holds this view. In fact, nearly eight-in-ten white mainline Protestants (78%) say that humans and other living things have evolved over time. Three-quarters of the religiously unaffiliated (76%) and 68% of white non-Hispanic Catholics say the same. About half of Hispanic Catholics (53%) believe that humans have evolved over time, while 31% reject that idea.

And that’s just in the US, where opinions like yours seem particularly prevalent.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/

Are those the same pollsters that said Hilary would win ?

 

[PickyPicky]

Are those the same pollsters that said Hilary would win?

Pollsters don’t predict. They report what people are telling them at the time the poll is carried out. If journalists or politicians use that for predicting, that’s up to them.

In this case, unless all these Christians are lying, millions of then — the clear majority, in fact — at the time of this poll accepted evolution.

You don’t believe them?

 

[Uriel1]

If they do not believe in Adam and Eve they are opposed to the teaching of the Catholic Church, see

CCC 295: We believe that God created the world according to his wisdom. It is not the product of any necessity whatever, nor of blind fate or chance. We believe that it proceeds from God’s free will; he wanted to make his creatures share in his being, wisdom and goodness: “For you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” Therefore the Psalmist exclaims: “O LORD, how manifold are your works! In wisdom you have made them all”; and “The LORD is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made.”

CCC 355 “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.” Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is “in the image of God”; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created “male and female”; (IV) God established him in his friendship.

I. "IN THE IMAGE OF GOD"

356 Of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”. He is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake”, and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity:

What made you establish man in so great a dignity? Certainly the incalculable love by which you have looked on your creature in yourself! You are taken with love for her; for by love indeed you created her, by love you have given her a being capable of tasting your eternal Good.

357 Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.

358 God created everything for man, but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to him:

What is it that is about to be created, that enjoys such honor? It is man that great and wonderful living creature, more precious in the eyes of God than all other creatures! For him the heavens and the earth, the sea and all the rest of creation exist. God attached so much importance to his salvation that he did not spare his own Son for the sake of man. Nor does he ever cease to work, trying every possible means, until he has raised man up to himself and made him sit at his right hand.

359 “In reality it is only in the mystery of the Word made flesh that the mystery of man truly becomes clear.”

St. Paul tells us that the human race takes its origin from two men: Adam and Christ. . . The first man, Adam, he says, became a living soul, the last Adam a life-giving spirit.

Not much about evolution in the catechism my friend