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Edgar
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But if God choose to change a rodent into a whale over millions of years, do you think He could do it? He is omnipotent, after all.
Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true
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Techno2000
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And one has to be pretty damned gullible to believe it happen like that.
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Aloysium
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What I like about it is that it tries to explain what God did in creating this world filled as it is with diverse forms of life; this in contrast with evolutionary theories, which are attempts to describe what matter did. Although there has been much made of god-of-the-gaps, God is being presented as the cause of what exists, while science tells us what is. The actual of-the gaps explanation is randomness, filling the huge gaps between the different kinds of creatures, which clearly demonstrate the progression of life, a fact unexplained and in fact unrecognized by evolutionary science.
Where I would disagree is with your belief that the genome itself, of previous life forms was used in the construction of higher, more complex life forms. Clearly some of the information that is represented by the organization of atoms, would be utilized within the physical structure of a brand new being. What is created is a new form of being, a unity exhibiting specific degrees of physical, psychological and spiritual complexity. My model would be that of a heirarchy rather than a tree of life. Humanity, fallen in Adam and becoming one body in Christ, has a spiritual nature which shares the psychological and physical characteristics which define an animal soul, which in turn contains the attributes found in plants and unicellular creatures; all these are comprised of the simplest forms of being - the atomic and subatomic interactions which constitute life’s physical being in time and space. If such an analogy as you describe were to be made, it would be that of the One True Vine, where all that exists, every plant and animal, is a necessary by-product, like the placental sac, of the final cause, God’s creation brought into existence to manifest His glory and to ultimately come to know Him.
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edwest
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This is misleading.
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edwest
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Please. No name calling.
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edwest
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Yes. Right again.
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Aloysium
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Tadpoles turn into frogs as they develop, remaining amphibians. A rodent into a whale, I suppose He could do that but I don’t know why.
I would translate your hypothesis as suggesting that a rodent and a whale are the same kind of being. Given how an entire system has to be remodelled as a whole or else it wouldn’t work, a little tweaking here and there by His angels, most definitely not random physical change, could have resulted in such a spectacular manifestation of creativity and beauty (as opposed to merely utilitarian natural selection). That is possibly what happened.
What I understand is that God creates every individual being, as it exists as itself and as a mutually necessary participant of its environment. The question might perhaps be whether or not the first of each kind of living being was born of a lesser form. Although not hominids themselves (in contradistinction to the claims of modern scientific taxonomy), did Adam and Eve emerge from an animal’s womb as we would expect the reproduction of another hominid? To me it seems no more difficult a task to create something fully developed, rather than as a seed; the chicken and the egg are one thing.
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Techno2000
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I would say that God couldn’t do it, because God doesn’t think like man thinks, the idea of macroevolution comes from man.
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Elf01
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@Techno2000, can you answer please. If the answer is no then what exactly do you believe about Genesis 1-3?Techno2000:
So were there literal trees of life and knowledge of good and evil?
Were Adam and Eve blind until they ate the fruit?
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Techno2000
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"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Gen 3 : 15
Does the Virgin Mary crush a live snake ? No, but we know exactly what God is talking about, that’s how you have to look at the book of Genesis. It’s a mix of mystical literal and figurative things.
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Edgar
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Well, the Progressive Creation model I subscribe to doesn’t rely on any forms of microevolution - eg, mutations, natural selection, genetic drift - to account for macroevolution (ie, the history of life). In fact it doesn’t try to account for macroevolution using science at all; it assumes macro’ is a mysterious miracle that of course only God can perform and understand.
It doesn’t expect the fossil record to provide evidence of a contiguous process of evolution, and it doesn’t try and explain away the apparent gaps - indeed, the gaps in the fossil record are integral to this model, as they are considered evidence of supernatural intervention.
This model doesn’t find “the Cambrian explosion” problematic, God wanted an explosion of life and viola! … it happened!
This model can accommodate the genetic evidence for common descent, as the genetic material from the first creatures God created millions of years ago was used to create the “next” creatures, and so on and so on, all the way down the line until we get to the present age. So even though there are many separate creations, they are genetically linked in a real, physical sense. It possible God used the genetic material from a hominid to create all the extant primates and maybe even man.
So even though Adam’s DNA may linked to chimps, for example, via an original hominid, Adam was not the offspring of a living creature, but was created from inanimate matter, just a Genesis 2:7 describes. What Genesis doesnt tell us is that this inanimate matter included genetic material, from a pre-existing creature. The description of Eve being created from Adam’s “rib” may be a symbolic description of her being created from Adam’s DNA.
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Edgar
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An excellent summation of what is going on, good sir. Behind it all is a demonic plot to promote atheism, or at the very least, to discredit Judeo-Chirstianity religion by discreditiing divine creation.
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Edgar
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Scientific attempts to explain how the history of life unfolded - eg, Darwinian evolution -prove that science has limits.
As the distinguished French zoologist, Pierre-Paul Grasse wrote, “It is possible that in this domain biology, impotent, yields the floor to the metaphysics.” Grasse was an evolutionist, but an anti-Darwinist. His study of the fossil record convinced him that the history of life describes a process of evolution, but was scathing of the Darwinian model, believing it was wholly inadequate. He stated that the aim of his 1973 book, Evolution of Living Organisms, was “to destroy the myth of evolution as a simple, understood and explained phenomenon” and to show that evolution is a mystery of which little is, and perhaps can be, known.
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Edgar
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It’s kinda disturbing to know that such a bizarre tale is considered by many to be sound science. The fairy tale of whale evolution is an example of what happens when humans attempt to explain the miracle of life with their puny science. Remove the truth of our Creator from the equation of reality and what are you left with? Nonsense, fantasy and supersitition, that’s what.
“claiming to be wise, they became fools” - Romans 1
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Edgar
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Well, yes, but man got the idea from the fossil record, which reveals the history of life on this planet. If one leaves God out the picture, a process of biological macroevolution is the hitherto the best scientific explanation for this history. I don’t accept that explanation because I don’t think it’s scienfically adequate and I don’t think God left creation up to some mindless natural process.
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Techno2000
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If you don’t believe in the supernatural…the Devil has got you where he wants you.Aloysium:
An excellent summation of what is going on, good sir. Behind it all is a demonic plot to promote atheism, or at the very least, to discredit Judeo-Chirstianity religion by discreditiing divine creation.
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Edgar
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Please explain.
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Edgar
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This is where the worship of science comes in to play. For many people is an idol that replaces the supernatural. Leading the way is Darwinian evolution.
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Elf01
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So what exactly is literal in Genesis 1-3 and what is figurative and how do you know that?
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Techno2000
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Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
1 Corinthians 13:12
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