Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[rossum]

rossum, you can’t extrapolate what happens now in a rich oceanic ecosystem

Today we still have chemptrophs living round volcanic vents in the ocean floor. Similar volcanic vents existed in the past. I am not extrapolating, I am observing.

rossum

 

[Aloysium]

Aloysium:

Species did not arise from information being gradually added to some prokaryotic genome, but rather as a result of self-expression of a first creature, through epigenetic processes…

You’re so close to the truth…

Instead of God creating life with a fixed wardrobe - “You can change into this when you need to”…

He created life and gave it a needle and thread - “Sew whatever outfit you need and alter it when you need”.

By life, I mean being with the capacity to procreate, to develop and grow through the transformation of matter into itself, something beyond the molecular that interacts with its environment at a higher level. There is a hierarchy of complexity of interactions with other things that is reflected in the matter that constitutes the body’s processes whereby that happens. Animals, as opposed to lesser life forms which may only very simply react to stimuli, have the capacity to perceive more acutely and delineate the elements of their world, to process the information and to act accordingly. These are all built it instinctive features, the higher the organism, the greater the learning abilities grounded on given instincts, which reflect the wiring and patterns of excitation of their nervous system. And, then we have we ourselves, sitting within eternity, able to know and act as causal agents.

I do not bring myself into existence. The successes I have had in my life were through the grace of God, played out on the psychosocial field that is human relation. I suppose I have sewed the outfit I have willed, altered when needed, but that is of such a limited scope with regards to most things, and in the grand scheme of things, have consented to Christ’s sewing and altering the outfit I will wear for ever.

While my words might approximate what you hold to be true, I’m thinking there is a fundamental difference in how we conceptualize all this wonder.

 

[rossum]

Also, those random mutations odds have to be doubled, because evolution has to come up with the DNA code for both male and female.

No. Your lack of knowledge of genetics is showing. Only the X and Y chromosomes are different between the sexes. All our other chromosomes are the same for both sexes and are inherited from both parents.

You need to learn more about the subject before you criticise it.

rossum

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

Also, those random mutations odds have to be doubled, because evolution has to come up with the DNA code for both male and female.

No. Your lack of knowledge of genetics is showing. Only the X and Y chromosomes are different between the sexes. All our other chromosomes are the same for both sexes and are inherited from both parents.

You need to learn more about the subject before you criticise it.

rossum

The male and female reproductive systems are completely different and would require different DNA information.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

rossum, you can’t extrapolate what happens now in a rich oceanic ecosystem

Today we still have chemptrophs living round volcanic vents in the ocean floor. Similar volcanic vents existed in the past. I am not extrapolating, I am observing.

rossum

Now you are saying the ocean was already in place right at the beginning 4.5 billion years ago, where did the time come from for all this to evolve ?

 

[rossum]

The male and female reproductive systems are completely different and would require different DNA information.

Not as different as you seem to think. Turn the testes and scrotum inside out, fitting them internally, and you have ovaries and a uterus.

Both sexes have at least one X-chromosome; everything up to and including the X-chromosome is the same between the sexes. The male Y-chromosome is different, and a lot smaller. It is an X-chromosome which has lost a lot of information. Evolution is capable of losing information, as buffalo will agree.

There is no need for your ludicrous claim of DNA having to evolve twice. All that was needed for the Y-chromosome to lose some DNA. In humans the X-chromosome contains about 1,100 genes. The Y-chromosome has about 26 genes. See Chromosomes: Definition & Structure for more.

rossum

 

[rossum]

Now you are saying the ocean was already in place right at the beginning 4.5 billion years ago, where did the time come from for all this to evolve ?

Oceans do not evolve. They are not living organisms. Oceans are water, and there is a lot of water, in the form of ice, in the universe.

rossum

 

[Vonsalza]

While my words might approximate what you hold to be true, I’m thinking there is a fundamental difference in how we conceptualize all this wonder.

I personally think that the difference is that I don’t find a God that gave life the ability to change into other life as any less God-like.

 

[Vonsalza]

rossum:

Techno2000:

rossum, you can’t extrapolate what happens now in a rich oceanic ecosystem

Today we still have chemptrophs living round volcanic vents in the ocean floor. Similar volcanic vents existed in the past. I am not extrapolating, I am observing.

rossum

Now you are saying the ocean was already in place right at the beginning 4.5 billion years ago, where did the time come from for all this to evolve ?

It wasn’t in place immediately. Just almost immediately. Earth is 4.5 byo. The oceans are roughly 4 byo.

The hot molten rock that was earth had to cool enough for the water to pool

 

[edwest]

Thank you very much.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

Now you are saying the ocean was already in place right at the beginning 4.5 billion years ago, where did the time come from for all this to evolve ?

Oceans do not evolve. They are not living organisms. Oceans are water, and there is a lot of water, in the form of ice, in the universe.

rossum

How could this so-call first life bacteria progress into something new when all there was to eat was chemicals? Only the lowliest creature can live on just a diet of chemicals.

 

[edwest]

It developed a digestive system… somehow.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

But about seven or eight years ago I posted on my Web site that I don’t understand. And I said, “I will buy lunch for anyone that will sit with me and explain to me evolution, and I won’t argue with you until I don’t understand something – I will ask you to clarify. But you can’t wave by and say, “This enzyme does that.” You’ve got to get down in the details of where molecules are built, for me. Nobody has come forward.

You must learn patience; someone here will answer you!

 

[Vonsalza]

@Techno2000
@edwest
@Eric_Hyom

Two thoughts;

1. You’re asking the wrong people to lunch. For someone who could do a top to bottom, nuts and bolts explanation of it from the molecular level, you need someone with an advanced degree in microbiology (and probably virology)
2. You need to have enough of an education to grasp everything they’re talking about.

Related to number two is your question of “where are the molecules built”. What does that even mean?

 

[Eric_Hyom]

You’re asking the wrong people to lunch.

buffalo is waiting for lunch, not me or Techno or ed

 

[Techno2000]

It developed a digestive system… somehow.

How did it survive while it was waiting to evolve a digestive system? The answer is it used photosynthesis in the meantime… So what it can’t progress any further on just a diet of chemicals.

 

[edwest]

Scientists have just figured out how photosynthesis works. It’s not simple or accidental. Oh well. Something, something… or something.

 

[Aloysium]

Aloysium:

While my words might approximate what you hold to be true, I’m thinking there is a fundamental difference in how we conceptualize all this wonder.

I personally think that the difference is that I don’t find a God that gave life the ability to change into other life as any less God-like.

God being Love, It hardly matters one way or the other. What does matter in terms of this conversation is what happened, what it is that God brings into existence. God did give us the capacity to truly become gods in Jesus Christ, meaning that it is He who raises us to heaven. All our efforts in that regard are simply the construction of some Tower of Babel. Otherwise, kinds of being do not transform themselves into others. Matter does not become human

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Every generation has mutations, for example the average human has about 75 mutations in his or her DNA. Natural selection sorted through those mutations in the population and selected the beneficial ones

The more random mutations there are in each generation, must make it more confusing for natural selection to do its work. How does natural selection work out which of the 75 mutations are beneficial; and which are rubbish?
The first 176 steps in the evolution of the eye would have seen negligible improvement in vision. Yet natural selection would have had to detect a 1% improvement each time, Then we need the one percent improvement in the brain and limbs as well, you are asking too much. I would say that is impossible to do without a guiding power.

 

[edwest]

I agree. But science is the only thing you’re asked to believe even when it makes outlandish claims. In your well thought out example, one error in the process means an end to the process. Unless at some unknown future date, the alleged process can continue.