Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[Beyond_Reason]

okay so to get this straight.

It’s “Devolution” because there are significant morphologial changes, but it’s also just “built in adaption” (despite it being caused by new genetics). Do I have that right?

 

[buffalo]

despite it being caused by new genetics

new genetics?

 

[Beyond_Reason]

new genes.

 

[buffalo]

new genes.

where do these new genes come from?

 

[rossum]

There is only one uncaused cause.

… and Mohammed is His prophet. So it says in at least one written record.

… and Krishna is His avatar. So it says in at least one written record.

… and Moroni is His angel. So it says in at least one written record.

There are a great many written records.

rossum

 

[Beyond_Reason]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+do+new+genes+form

 

[rossum]

where do these new genes come from?

Mutations. A mutation is a change so the mutated gene is different from the old gene. The old genes could construct an eye. The new genes are different and cannot construct an eye, so a blind cave fish does not have eyes.

If a genes has “devolved” then it cannot be the same as the original undevolved gene. It has to be a different gene from the original.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

… and Mohammed is His prophet. So it says in at least one written record.

… and Krishna is His avatar. So it says in at least one written record.

… and Moroni is His angel. So it says in at least one written record.

There are a great many written records

One has to sort through them to determine those that are true.

 

[buffalo]

The new genes are different and cannot construct an eye, so a blind cave fish does not have eyes.

The fish have devolved to lose their eyes.

 

[rossum]

One has to sort through them to determine those that are true.

Precisely. So your post #6271 above about “written historical records” is worthless because written historical records may not be trustworthy.

rossum

 

[Aloysium]

you don’t have any justification beyond your bias to think that our genetic relation to other creatures is an illusion. You cannot refute the idea that we all share in a genetic tree of life, and every attempt you have made is just an attempt to excuse yourself from taking the evidence seriously. You haven’t provided a counter argument or any evidence to the contrary.

A number of thoughts come to mind.

Theories are informed bias. I have my understanding of how things work and you have yours. The advantage I have, is that I’ve known about evolutionary theories all my life and pretty much know what’s said to be going on at a molecular level since it is the framework for presenting scientific data. Your justification I suppose is that you think your understanding is shared by the top people in the field of biology. You have heard the story and the reasoning behind it and accept the authority from which it comes. I have only my reason and commitment to the truth. I would assume that an independent arbiter would conclude that you have your biases and I have mine.

The genetic relation between ourselves and apes is one of similarity, not genealogical. The same information that goes into the making of the atom, the cell, multicellular organisms and mammals is utilized in the creation of mankind and gorillakind. The illusion is that of there having been a common ancestor. There is one ancestor of humanity - Adam.

I understand that I have been unable to convey my argument which holds that Existence is the ground of all life rather than matter and it is from that eternal wellspring that all this diversity comes into being. There is no love in natural selection and random mutations, no Eden, no original sin, no need for redemption and no salvation nor resurrection in the New Jerusalem. I think it is perfectly clear, and this makes it difficult to communicate to those who don’t see what I see.

There being one truth, I would be very interested in how you synthesize your Catholic and evolutionary beliefs.

 

[buffalo]

records may not be trustworthy.

They are not all trustworthy. But the one’s that are are very informative.

 

[edwest]

This cannot be admitted. To do so would unbalance what’s going on here.

 

[Aloysium]

What you’re saying doesn’t make sense in light of the evidence available. Your metaphysics need to follow from the evidence, not the other way around.

I wish you could provide an specific argument rather than this generalization. I don’t actually know what you are referring to. But I’ll try to clarify the metaphysics.

The metaphysics has to do with the reality of our communicating here and now. You are one being, thinking, perceiving, and behaving as you are, reacting to some emotion or other, most likely frustration. You are a unity of being, all these psychological manifestations a physical process consisting of neurological patterns that involve chemical reactions, which are forms of energy. All this that is constitutes the reality of your being a manifestation of humanity. Persons exist in relation to what is other to themselves. The self observes, understands and feels about, as well as acting upon forms of being which are other to itself. This triune nature of being is an image of the relationship God has with all that He brings into being and of the perfect relationality that is the Trinity - Divine eternal Love. In and through Jesus Christ we enter into communion with the Godhead, all as individuals united in His mystical body.

 

[edwest]

A great mystery. And even though new genetic material does arise, does it automatically go to where it needs to go?

 

[Beyond_Reason]

Beyond_Reason:

What you’re saying doesn’t make sense in light of the evidence available. Your metaphysics need to follow from the evidence, not the other way around.

I wish you could provide an specific argument rather than this generalization. I don’t actually know what you are referring to. But I’ll try to clarify the metaphysics.

The metaphysics has to do with the reality of our communicating here and now. You are one being, thinking, perceiving, and behaving as you are, reacting to some emotion or other, most likely frustration. You are a unity of being, all these psychological manifestations a physical process consisting of neurological patterns that involve chemical reactions, which are forms of energy. All this that is constitutes the reality of your being a manifestation of humanity. Persons exist in relation to what is other to themselves. The self observes, understands and feels about, as well as acting upon forms of being which are other to itself. This triune nature of being is an image of the relationship God has with all that He brings into being and of the perfect relationality that is the Trinity - Divine eternal Love. In and through Jesus Christ we enter into communion with the Godhead, all as individuals united in His mystical body.

I’m one being. But when we’re talking about evolution we’re talking about changes across generations. I don’t see how anything you’re saying contradicts the idea of genetic change across generations.

 

[Beyond_Reason]

So I take it you didn’t follow the link.

 

[IWantGod]

The genetic relation between ourselves and apes is one of similarity, not genealogical

If this is the best argument you have then there really isn’t any reason for me to agree with you. It is not a coincidence that we share genetic similarities with apes. Scientists have sequenced the genome of the chimpanzee and found that humans are 96 percent similar to the great ape species. While we have genetic dissimilarities, we share genes with these creatures because we come from the same lineage. This is a reasonable conclusion, and the only one that makes sense of the data.

You can make the unscientific claim that an intelligent designer made creatures as such that they share genetic code and yet at the same time are completely unrelated biologically. But not only is this explanation clearly adhoc, and not only is there no direct scientific evidence of a designer, it doesn’t make sense for an intelligent designer to make it appear as if all creatures are genetically related when they are really not. In-order to support this conclusion you have to do all sorts of mental gymnastics in-order to avoid what it looks like. The truth is, the evidence supports a genetic tree of life that encompasses all creatures including ourselves.

Why should i or anyone else think otherwise.

 

[edwest]

I do think otherwise. There are structures in animal bodies that cannot be half formed. Even down to the level of insects trapped in amber, complex, specific features are formed and the insect can walk and fly. The illusion is saying that it “appears to be designed.” The shape, the color, even thorns work together. Design is evident.

 

[buffalo]

Scientists have sequenced the genome of the chimpanzee and found that humans are 96 percent similar to the great ape species .

Nope. Already linked and showed this to be false.