Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

How many fit/unfit cycles do you estimate it took evolution to go from a microbe to the 10 million different plant and animal species we have today?

I estimate about 2,739,720,400,000 generations, estimated as below:

From	To	Elapsed	Generation Time	Number of Generations	Examples
Single celled prokaryote	3.5Ba	2Ba	1.5By	6 hour	2191500000000	E. coli	30 mins
Single celled eukaryote	2Ba	500Ma	1.5By	1 day	547875000000	Paramecium	6 hours
Simple Multicellular Chordate	500Ma	400Ma	100My	6 months	200000000	Amphioxus	1 month
Vertebrate fish	400Ma	350Ma	50My	1 year	50000000	Zebra Fish	4 months
Amphibian	350Ma	275Ma	75My	2 years	37500000	Frog	1 year
Reptile	275Ma	200Ma	75My	3 years	25000000	Gekko	2 years
Mammal	200Ma	70Ma	130My	5 years	26000000	Rat	6 weeks
Primate	70Ma	2Ma	68My	10 years	6800000	Macaque	4 years
Homo/Human	2Ma	Present	2My	20 years	100000	Human	20 years
2739720400000

Being the sort of person I am, I already had that calculation saved in a spreadsheet since I was interested in the answer a few years back. That averages out to about 900 generations for each base pair in the human genome.

I’m looking at this from the angle of environmental changes. For every fit/unfit cycle, you’re going to need a corresponding perfect environmental event that made this fit/unfit cycle possible.Now, add up all the slight gradual modifications, plus all the needed environmental pressures to go along with it and one should see that this is an impossible amount of environmental change.

 

[Vonsalza]

We “know” that most mutation seems to appear at the moment of reproduction. And we “know” that chromosomal mis-matching and other reproductive errors typically lead to a non-viable organism. Meaning it dies in utero or shortly after.

Beneficial mutations are rare. A little sprig of life progresses through mountains of death. Only previously successful permutations are found in the fossil record.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Easy.

Death.

So, evolution made them fit, and they were fruitful and multiplied,and then evolution sent a memo out and it said… time for all yall to die!

Sorta. “They” had cousins that suddenly found themselves with some small advantage that they could not compete with and thus led to their demise.

The slightly different cousins filled the ecological space previously occupied by your now extinct “they”.

 

[edwest]

That was excellent. Thanks.

 

[edwest]

I agree. All components must change together in order to ensure the survival of the organisms.

 

[Techno2000]

“They” had cousins that suddenly found themselves with some small advantage that they could not compete with and thus led to their demise.

That’s so VAGUE…

 

[Vonsalza]

It’s how it works.

Mutation occurs in Bob that makes Bob more fit for survival. Bob has lots of kids as a result.
Bob’s kids do the same.

Eventually all the people around that don’t have Bob’s adaptation are competed out of existence.

It’s the same with a business that obtains a tremendous competitive advantage. They put all similar competitors out of business.

 

[Techno2000]

It’s how it works.

Mutation occurs in Bob that makes Bob more fit for survival. Bob has lots of kids as a result.
Bob’s kids do the same.

Eventually all the people around that don’t have Bob’s adaptation are competed out of existence.

It’s the same with a business that obtains a tremendous competitive advantage. They put all similar competitors out of business.

The problem is, not just Bob, but Bob’s entire ecosystem is going to be effected and have to mutate and evolve right along with Bob"s new fit cousins, so they can be supported.

 

[edwest]

That is illogical. Theoretically, one animal could be the only animal. No one else can stop it, and it wipes out all of its predators. Its eats its entire edible environment out of existence and even though it is perfectly fit - dies because there is nothing left for it to eat. It can’t find anything, so it and its offspring all die.

 

[edwest]

That’s right. Not going to happen. The opposite can happen.

 

[William_Scott]

Beneficial mutations are rare. A little sprig of life progresses through mountains of death. Only previously successful permutations are found in the fossil record.

Isn’t it wonderful how the occasionally beneficial copying error in DNA and damage to DNA from cosmic rays ultimately caused sea sponges (or comb jellies) to obtain brains capable of reasoning about God, morality and science, and hands and fingers capable of creating fine works of art, among countless other wonders that humans/former sea sponges are now capable of. Forget about science, this is a miracle which should cause all of those who believe firmly in this story of origins to bow before the creative power of Nature.

Now, it is without question that the mythology of sponge/jelly to man evolution is a fundamental dogma of the modern religion of secular humanism–you know, that human sacrificing (aka abortion) religion that dominates in academia and the secular State in the West. As for the many Christians who seek to maintain a syncretism of traditional Christian faith with the fantastical origin myths of our modern humanist religion–remember the similar unhealthy syncretism that the Israelites constantly sought with the dominant human-sacrificing belief systems of their day. We’ve been forewarned.

 

[Techno2000]

That’s right. Not going to happen. The opposite can happen.

In the real world, if an environment gets too hot/cold dry/wet the entire ecosystem is affected, some organisms are more tolerant than others. Evolution doesn’t play a role, one way or another, things die or they survive…that’s it.

 

[William_Scott]

p.s. The primitive pagan belief systems of ancient Israel’s day had origin myths which were almost as silly and in many ways similar to the State enforced indoctrination of our day. However, I would argue that the unscientific silliness of modern microbe to man evolution is even greater than the earlier myths in view of the great advancements in modern (real) science.

 

[Techno2000]

Now, it is without question that the mythology of sponge/jelly to man

Lol…Spongebob comes to mind.

 

[edwest]

The religion of secular humanism must have a compelling origin story of how we came to be. It cannot involve God/gods, it must be atheistic. So there is no guilt, no reason to write: “It is forbidden to forbid.” When man turns from God barbaric practices and barbaric living return. Man has only two choices.

Matthew 7:13

New International Version
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

New Living Translation
"You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way.

English Standard Version
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

 

[edwest]

It challenges the logical man to see absurdity being preached in modern times. CRISPR/Cas9 is literally tearing the genome apart like an extremely complex machine, which it is. Extremely complex machines do not build themselves. Not without a watchmaker who can see what he is doing and who knows what each part does and where it goes.

https://www.neb.com/tools-and-resou...genome-editing-a-new-era-in-molecular-biology

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

It’s how it works.

Mutation occurs in Bob that makes Bob more fit for survival. Bob has lots of kids as a result.
Bob’s kids do the same.

Eventually all the people around that don’t have Bob’s adaptation are competed out of existence.

It’s the same with a business that obtains a tremendous competitive advantage. They put all similar competitors out of business.

The problem is, not just Bob, but Bob’s entire ecosystem is going to be effected and have to mutate and evolve right along with Bob"s new fit cousins, so they can be supported.

No! You’re totally right and they do!

It’s like a continuous arms race in that particular way.

 

[William_Scott]

Amen Edwest, I don’t think flat earthers can hold a candle to the cognitive dissonance and basic “logic suppression” required in reasoning men and women who hold to the fable of evolutionary dogma. However, if everyone around you believes an absurdity, it becomes remarkably easy to go along with the crowd and shelve God-given logic and reason (the lemming/broad road effect).

 

[Vonsalza]

That is illogical. Theoretically, one animal could be the only animal. No one else can stop it, and it wipes out all of its predators. Its eats its entire edible environment out of existence and even though it is perfectly fit - dies because there is nothing left for it to eat. It can’t find anything, so it and its offspring all die.

If there was enough prey to support a community of the creature that jumped forward in evolution, then no. It factually would be unable to kill all possible prey. One super-wolf cannot depopulate an entire region of deer.

It can only eat so much, Ed.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Beneficial mutations are rare. A little sprig of life progresses through mountains of death. Only previously successful permutations are found in the fossil record.

Isn’t it wonderful how the occasionally beneficial copying error in DNA and damage to DNA from cosmic rays ultimately caused sea sponges (or comb jellies) to obtain brains capable of reasoning about God, morality and science, and hands and fingers capable of creating fine works of art, among countless other wonders that humans/former sea sponges are now capable of. Forget about science, this is a miracle which should cause all of those who believe firmly in this story of origins to bow before the creative power of Nature.

Now, it is without question that the mythology of sponge/jelly to man evolution is a fundamental dogma of the modern religion of secular humanism–you know, that human sacrificing (aka abortion) religion that dominates in academia and the secular State in the West. As for the many Christians who seek to maintain a syncretism of traditional Christian faith with the fantastical origin myths of our modern humanist religion–remember the similar unhealthy syncretism that the Israelites constantly sought with the dominant human-sacrificing belief systems of their day. We’ve been forewarned.

Your fault here is the conflation of scientific research with some vague concept of “modern humanist religion”.

Evolution is understood and affirmed by folks who practice every religion under our sun.

Very few folks I know treat science as the end-all, be-all. Your local university, for example, probably just has one or two buildings on campus dedicated to the “hard sciences”. The other score of buildings are dedicated to other important disciplines that lie largely outside the scientific realm.