Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

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Bradskii,

Here we are again. You may recall the atheist bus campaign in the UK. "The original ads from the British Humanist Association insisted: “There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

Translation. The possibility of god is slim, very slim, so just do what you like and stop worrying about offending him. After all, this life is all you have so eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.

Did I get that right?
 
buffalo said:
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Metis1:
I.D. is not “scientific” but those in pseudo-scientist will tell you otherwise, including Behe. If you want to see that displayed with Behe, read the account of his behavior in the Dover (Pa.) case whereas a conservative and Christian judge lambasted his behavior that included his lying under oath. Wikipedia actually covers that case quite well, btw, so you might want to check it out.
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Forget Dover. So much new info has arisen since then.
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‘Hey, I know I lied back then. But now we have more info. Can we try again?’

Yeah, sure. But don’t let on that ID and creationism (I think you called it ‘philosophical ID’) are the same thing. They’ll only throw you guys out of court again.
 
edwest said:
Bradskii,

Here we are again. You may recall the atheist bus campaign in the UK. "The original ads from the British Humanist Association insisted: “There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

Translation. The possibility of god is slim, very slim, so just do what you like and stop worrying about offending him. After all, this life is all you have so eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.

Did I get that right?
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Spot on. But why are you posting this on a thread about evolution?
 
edwest said:
This thread isn’t about evolution. It’s about Dover.
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No. I just checked. It’s about evolution and whether it is true. Check out the blue band near the top of the page - it’s got the original thread title.

Dover was a trial about whether creationism could be taught in science classes. It can’t so the ID guys were shown the door.

And what Buff posted had no relation to Dover in any case…
 
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edwest said:
There is still no explanation for polystrate trees which pass through multiple strata and which were buried quickly since they did not rot.
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I think what you mean (and you can confirm this if you like), is that there are no explanations which you will accept because they contradict your fundamental reading of certain parts of scripture.

Am I right - or can you really find no explanations at all?
 
I’ve already decided, based on my reading of the literature, that the dating assigned to fossils is highly questionable. Oh, by the way, I’m not a stereotype.
 
As one who long time used to disbelieve in the ToE, ID uses an entirely different approach because we cannot posit a deity or deities based on objectively-derived evidence as even any serious theologian will tell you. Instead, it is based on faith, which needs to empirical evidence.

By chance, are you Catholic? I ask that not as a slam but as one who has run across your positions over and over again posted by fundamentalist Protestants. Matter of fact, the first time that I heard that one can accept the ToE along with the Bible was from a Catholic priest back in the early 1960’s. The Church accepts this as a viable possibility, and in doing so it bases it both on both theological and scientific grounds.
 
Metis1 said:
Instead it is based on faith, which needs to empirical evidence.
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No. ID, the science, is based on evidence and the calculation of odds.

100% orthodox Catholic. I too, heard from Catholic teachers and priests about TOE. I decided to investigate the evidence.

I accept the micro, not the macro.

I understand Scripture as the Church has taught.

You really do not understand the strong ID evidence that it coming every day.

This is my position:

IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.

This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).

IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
 
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Peer-reviewed papers related to ID have been published in the following:

“These papers have appeared in scientific journals such as Protein Science , Journal of Molecular Biology , Theoretical Biology and Medical Modelling , Journal of Advanced Computational Intelligence and Intelligent Informatics , Quarterly Review of Biology , Cell Biology International , Rivista di Biologia/Biology Forum , Physics of Life Reviews , Annual Review of Genetics , and many others. At the same time, pro-ID scientists have presented their research at conferences worldwide in fields such as genetics, biochemistry, engineering, and computer science.”
 
edwest said:
Peer-reviewed papers related to ID have been published in the following:

“These papers have appeared in scientific journals such as Protein Science , Journal of Molecular Biology , Theoretical Biology and Medical Modelling , Journal of Advanced Computational Intelligence and Intelligent Informatics , Quarterly Review of Biology , Cell Biology International , Rivista di Biologia/Biology Forum , Physics of Life Reviews , Annual Review of Genetics , and many others. At the same time, pro-ID scientists have presented their research at conferences worldwide in fields such as genetics, biochemistry, engineering, and computer science.”
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Which papers?
 
edwest said:
I’ve already decided, based on my reading of the literature, that the dating assigned to fossils is highly questionable. Oh, by the way, I’m not a stereotype.
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So what are your objections? I don’t think you’ll swing anyone towards your views with ‘I’ve already decided…’. Details, Ed. Details. Get them out in the open so we can discuss them.

Edit: Oh, I see. This is your response to my question about evidence. So you can actually find some. It just doesn’t correlate with what you’ve decided. Presumably on the basis of your fundamental interpretation of scripture. Got it now.
 
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buffalo said:
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Bradskii:
Tha’s why it can’t be taught.
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ID, the philosophy in mandatory philosophy class.
ID, the science, in science class.

You will note, ID, the philosophy, I claim is supported by science.
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There’s your problem. They are inseparable. As you have shown my mixing up theology (God and creation) and science (dna).

Scene - a science class:
‘Excuse me sir…where did the dna come from?’
‘Well, God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.’

Oops - category error. Hence, I have to say again…Dover.
 
The details are very simple. These trees pass through many layers of rock strata. Strata that are supposedly thousands or millions of years old. A few strange ‘explanations’ have been put forth like the trunks were buried gradually at a rate of millimeters per year. The trunks would have rotted away, and it’s obvious that such a statement is not true.
 
Bradskii said:
Scene - a science class:
‘Excuse me sir…where did the dna come from?’
‘Well, God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.’
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Excuse me sir… Where did the dna come from?
Teacher:
I know, but I cannot tell you, because the law says I cannot and I will lose my job. All I am permitted to say is DNA is designed.
When you leave, go down to the philosophy department and ask them.
Student: That is really stupid. I cannot believe this stupid law even exists.
Teacher: (silence)
Teacher: When you are done, go down to the history department, not the revisionist one, make sure you go into the non-revisionist room. Look up separation of church and state. Look into the history at the founding. You will see it is nonsense, but remember, I cannot say anything…
When you study this, go down to the Bible History room. We can teach Bible History.
 
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Student: If DNA is so complex, how did it make itself?
Teacher: There’s a lot of speculation about that but scientists don’t know.
Student: Then why are you teaching me this stuff like it’s carved in stone?
Teacher: It’s not carved in stone.
Student: OK. So what’s all this good for?
Teacher: Working Biologists believe one thing and do another.
Student: Huh?
Teacher: No Biologist working in the field needs to believe evolution is true. That’s just what they’re told going on many generations now. Let me put it this way, once you get to a lab and begin your work, you won’t be thinking about evolution. You’ll be thinking things like ‘how does this molecular switch work?’ What role does it play in cellular processes? Does it lead to disease if it malfunctions? What else does it do?’
Student: Got it. So I’ll just pass my tests and move on.
Teacher: Right.
 
buffalo said:
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Bradskii:
Scene - a science class:
‘Excuse me sir…where did the dna come from?’
‘Well, God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.’
Click to expand...
Excuse me sir… Where did the dna come from?
Teacher:
I know, but I cannot tell you, because the law says I cannot and I will lose my job. All I am permitted to say is DNA is designed.
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Sorry. Not allowed.That’s a religious view.
 
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