Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

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There’s no way to disprove Divine intervention and that’s the rub. As far as we can test, everything that happens inside the universe obeys natural laws. Supernatural intervention is undetectable. So we can say Adam was formed fully from the ground in a literal day, but it’s faith. It’s not testable and it’s not what we actually see. If we’re going to appeal to it we have to have something more than “God can do what he wants”, otherwise it’s just a stopsign. It’s better to treat Genesis as allegory describing concepts to a primitive society that couldn’t fathom the scientific truths. It’s good literature. It’s even likely that’s how they understood it.
Aloysium said:
A free will and the accompanying capacity to know allow us to love, and thereby know God, who is Love itself. These capacities are not inherent in simpler forms of being such as atoms and cells, nor in the psychosomatic structure of animals. Human beings, as a unity of spirit and matter, had a beginning as such; we were created beginning with Adam, and were not built up by the universe doing its thing.
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I appreciate the relational thoughts. There’s nothing preventing the first sentient man, Adam, from being built up through natural processes though.

Much of this is conjecture and I’m sure neither of us is totally right. My own thoughts are still under construction. As it relates to this topic however it’s important to show that evolution is nearly certainly true and totally compatible with Christianity. Creationism (at least the YEC variant) is almost certainly false, but worse, the science denial engaged in by its adherents is a stumbling block for honest free thinkers.
 
Wozza said:
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Techno2000:
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Wozza:
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Techno2000:
5 million fungi species
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Are you saying that God created 5 million funghi species? Who can know the mind of God, eh?
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God knows all the components necessary for an ecosystem to work.
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So there are necessary components that God must create. Otherwise the ecosystem won’t work.

Do you understand the concept of omnipotence?
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Yes, God created a food chain to support life.
 
False. Evolution is the current ultimate storytelling device. It can do everything except when it doesn’t. No wonder people reject the science-only explanation. It is incomplete at best.
 
Honest question: What is a free thinker? I’d just like a few examples of what qualifies one to be a free thinker.
 
Hobgoblin said:
As far as we can test, everything that happens inside the universe obeys natural laws. Supernatural intervention is undetectable.
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Except that they, including ourselves, do exist. Why or how is that? We do not bring ourselves into existence in this moment. As much as we are subject to what we perceive and do, we are object to He who gives us being.
Hobgoblin said:
It’s better to treat Genesis as allegory describing concepts to a primitive society that couldn’t fathom the scientific truths.
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Genesis has great depth of meaning, most importantly on a spiritual level revealing the Word of God, but is also relevant on both a psychological and physical.

And, much of what people believe today, or at least what comes across in the media, and I include with that, evolution, seems to me to be the fantasies of a primitive society, unable to grasp the meaning of things, unable to fathom existential truths, that are clear as day when we introspect. It’s all science fiction these days.
Hobgoblin said:
There’s nothing preventing the first sentient man, Adam, from being built up through natural processes though.
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Give me a reasoned description of how this occurs. I really am interested in how people put that together.
Hobgoblin said:
Creationism (at least the YEC variant) is almost certainly false, but worse, the science denial engaged in by its adherents is a stumbling block for honest free thinkers.
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I would label myself as a creationist, although relative to how we measure time, given the universe as it now is structured and our frame of reference, it probably took billions of years, apparently in six steps, of unclear duration.

I consider Atheists to be less honest thinkers in terms of being skeptical of all but their own opinions, btw. But, that is their business, mine just sharing what I think.
 
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Aloysium said:
clear as day when we introspect
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That’s not exactly true. God’s presence is as clear as day when we do His will, giving of ourselves for the good of the other, participating in the mass and the sacraments, especial partaking of the Eucharist, praying, of course, and contemplating the teachings of the Church. Even in those dire circumstances that we will find ourselves, in the dark night of the spirit, His shadow looms, the emptiness of the abyss sceaming out His name, true fulfillment to be found in Him alone.
 
Techno2000 said:
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Wozza:
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Techno2000:
40.png
Wozza:
40.png
Techno2000:
5 million fungi species
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God created 5 million funghi species? Who can know the mind of God, eh?
Click to expand...
God knows all the components necessary for an ecosystem to work.
Click to expand...
So there are necessary components that God must create. Otherwise the ecosystem won’t work.

Do you understand the concept of omnipotence?
Click to expand...
Yes, God created a food chain to support life.
Click to expand...
So He needed 5 million species of fungi to do that. As I said, who can know the mind of God. Five million!
 
Well, I saw an very interesting interview about Intelligent Design, Ben Shapiro with Stephen Meyer, and I was thinking:
well in the cell there is the digital genetic code, and the system ( somewhere I read, it was described as nano-robots) to read it, interpret it, and execute the proper action depending the current circumstances of the cell. When the cell reproduces itself, those nano-robots have to write the genetic code which will determine the re-generation of each of them, in the new cell. So in the first cell, there were the nano-robots and the digital description of them. Before the first cell, there were the nano-robots building the cell and writing in it the genetic code of the cell, and particularly describing themselves in digital code. Is this possible without an conscience behind the nano-robots? They had to know what they were doing…
 
There are no nano-robots. There is a system for reading the genetic code and for regulating the internal workings of the cell. Scientists are still finding new things.

www.sciencedaily.com

Found: A new form of DNA in our cells

In a world first, researchers have identified a new DNA structure -- called the i-motif -- inside cells. A twisted 'knot' of DNA, the i-motif has never before been directly seen inside living cells.
www.sciencedaily.com
 
I took nano-robots as an intuitive term…So in your terms, that “system for reading and regulating” had to write in the new cell his own description in digital code
 
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I took nano-robots as an intuitive term…So in your terms, that “system for reading and regulating” had to write in the new cell his own description in digital code
 
Wozza said:
40.png
Techno2000:
40.png
Wozza:
40.png
Techno2000:
40.png
Wozza:
40.png
Techno2000:
5 million fungi species
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God created 5 million funghi species? Who can know the mind of God, eh?
Click to expand...
God knows all the components necessary for an ecosystem to work.
Click to expand...
So there are necessary components that God must create. Otherwise the ecosystem won’t work.

Do you understand the concept of omnipotence?
Click to expand...
Yes, God created a food chain to support life.
Click to expand...
So He needed 5 million species of fungi to do that. As I said, who can know the mind of God. Five million!
Click to expand...
Wozza said:
So He needed 5 million species of fungi to do that.
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I didn’t say that.
 
Aloysium said:
Except that they, including ourselves, do exist. Why or how is that?
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This has no bearing on testable reality. The universe is absurd minus God, but that’s not a problem science can address. Higher truths are the realm of religion. Think of it like a utensil. You use a spoon to eat soup. The soup is delicious and nourishes your body. Can the spoon explain why? Of course not. But it’s very good at its part of the equation.

I agree that our culture neglects the existential. We’re certainly not better people than the ancient Hebrews. But we do have greater knowledge.
Aloysium said:
Give me a reasoned description of how this occurs.
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That’s difficult to do because I have no idea how sentience occurs on a biological level. We can see wide ranges of intelligence in the animal kingdom. The more advanced ones are extremely intelligent, even possessing emotional range approaching ours. How far they are from crossing the line I don’t know. It’s not unreasonable to think their descendants might pass where we are now given enough time though.
Aloysium said:
I would label myself as a creationist, although relative to how we measure time, given the universe as it now is structured and our frame of reference, it probably took billions of years, apparently in six steps, of unclear duration.
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All Christians believe God created the universe. “Creationist” describes those who think God intervened supernaturally to create elements of it. “6 steps” is still problematic given things like vegetation appearing before light though. Something that does work is treating the days as functional spheres that can overlap chronologically.
 
edwest211 said:
Honest question: What is a free thinker? I’d just like a few examples of what qualifies one to be a free thinker.
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Here’s a good definition from Merriam-Webster:

: a person who thinks freely or independently : one who forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of authority

especially : one who rejects or is skeptical of religious dogma
 
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