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buffalo
Guest
What date and what document overturned the firm and constant teaching of the Church?
Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true
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buffalo
Guest
But that is not what we observe.
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buffalo
Guest
How do you know that?
Many sentences can be written that within them tell us the truth of nature or history. Many contain some scientific fact.
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goout
Guest
Yes, good question.goout:
What date and what document overturned the firm and constant teaching of the Church?
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goout
Guest
I read. I listen. And I try to listen to Catholic sources. I pay attention to documents that come from the Magisterium. Benedict’s Verbum Domini is an excellent source.goout:
How do you know that?
The catechism of course. Most people could benefit from simply reading the catechism, and exploring from there.
Understanding the sense of scripture.
What does literal mean for Catholics?
What are the spiritual senses?
Just start at the catechism.
Bp Barron gives an excellent exposition of the sense of scripture in different places,
Theology of the Body might be the best example of Catholic Sripture exposition. And TOB deals directly with Genesis in great depth.
Ok. What you just wrote is true, but Genesis was never intended as a statement of scientific fact.
I seriously know of no Catholic Scripture scholar who holds that view.
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goout
Guest
Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.goout:
But that is not what we observe.
Your constant diatribe against mainstream science is tiresome, and is laughable. I’m sorry to be so direct but I think it has to be said.
It is a false narrative, and false narratives are not in step with the Gospel.
I won’t waste time reposting the links to current mainstream and magisterial sources that speak about evolution.
You’ve already seen them, and you are simply out of step with Catholic thought.
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FiveLinden
Guest
You mean: ‘God just made it look like we are all related by descent’? That’s what common design means. If you think that of God, I cannot rationally discuss further, since anything I say can be explained away by the argument ‘God made it so’. There is no point in discussion. That is not the Catholic tradition. Catholicism asserts the compatibility of science and faith. There are lots of protestant groups I could join to argue faith v reason. I don’t expect to have to do so in a Catholic context.
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buffalo
Guest
Yet in its very first sentence we learned -
In the beginning (time)
God created the heavens (space)
and the earth (matter)
This is the scientific macro view. Only recently did modern science confirm this.
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buffalo
Guest
Say mainstream science, being provisional, would invalidate evolution tomorrow. What would be your position?
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goout
Guest
If science discovered the earth were flat, would you fall off the edge? What would be your position?goout:
Say mainstream science, being provisional, would invalidate evolution tomorrow. What would be your position?
The question is nonsensical.
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buffalo
Guest
Actually, no. Common descent is what we observe from certain beginning points. In other words, humans are all descended from one original pair.
We see this in the fossil record. Abrupt appearance, stasis and variation within. We know all dogs came from the wolf.
The issue is Universal Common Decent - everything living descended from the very first cell.
No one argues micro-evolution (aka adaptation).
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goout
Guest
And I’m done with it.
I just think that for every 500 posts you make against mainstream science, someone should stop your agenda train for just a second. And let others know it’s not Catholic thought.
I just think that for every 500 posts you make against mainstream science, someone should stop your agenda train for just a second. And let others know it’s not Catholic thought.
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buffalo
Guest
Right. I did not think you wanted to go there.
This is what current science is telling us: (just a few of the top of my head)
We now know that the tree of life has fallen and replaced by a bush
Junk DNA is no more and we are seeing purpose
The cell is a mini factory with robust communication
The DNA language is more complex than we ever though and can be read forward and backward and has layers of contextual meaining
DNA is now know to protect itself through several iterations of mutations with self correcting programming
Natural Selection is a conservative process not a creative one
Protein folding - the odds against 1 are well beyond the UPB
Life has 500 or so core conserved elements of which all body plans can be built.
Genetic entropy is real
The porgramming of life is very complex (programming means there is a programmer)
The top evos know the modern synthesis is broken.
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buffalo
Guest
They cannot. I use the mainstream science references.
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Aloysium
Guest
Genesis is literally true, most definitely working on numerous levels and constitutes, in the context of the rest of scripture and the tradition of the Church, a fount of meaning for those seeking to know themselves in relation to the world and to God.
Put-downs of the science contained in scripture, its description of the physical world and its formation, comes across to me as nothing more than a reflection of a belief system grounded in materialism. It is important to try and understand what others are talking about; to do this, it is helpful to be able to let go of preconceptions. The end result most often is greater understanding.
I am not trying to lock in what is written into 21st century interpretations, quite the converse actually. But, I can understand that this is how someone might translate my words into their 21st century understanding of the world. Again, Genesis works on many levels, ulimately to bring us to a deeper relationship with God as we grow in the Way that is Jesus Christ. We exist as material beings, and Genesis clearly addresses this point in a language understandable by all who can hear it, be they of any culture, any intellectual level or age.
These are the only signs of evolution to be found in the Galapagos:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
These “signs” of course point to the concept of evolution - the way we in the modern world, have come to understand its history, how it came to be and how it has changed within its time. More than just a scientific theory, which is considered fact by most educated people, it acts as a mythos, evoking passionate discussions, telling us who we are, how we got here and where we are heading, if not why we are here.
The reality of life is that it is not random at all, and quite complex, involving not only matter and the existence of DNA within the organic system of a cell. but organisms as they exist in themselves, actual living beings, which represent their species shaping all aspects of their existence - physical and psychological, as participants within and in relation to their environment. Natural selection is actually a destructive influence on the flowering of diversity. The creative and artistic act of God, producing the symphony that is this universe is not captured in the least by what is a simplistic answer, barely describing what is on the surface and ignoring the depths of existence.
Put-downs of the science contained in scripture, its description of the physical world and its formation, comes across to me as nothing more than a reflection of a belief system grounded in materialism. It is important to try and understand what others are talking about; to do this, it is helpful to be able to let go of preconceptions. The end result most often is greater understanding.
I am not trying to lock in what is written into 21st century interpretations, quite the converse actually. But, I can understand that this is how someone might translate my words into their 21st century understanding of the world. Again, Genesis works on many levels, ulimately to bring us to a deeper relationship with God as we grow in the Way that is Jesus Christ. We exist as material beings, and Genesis clearly addresses this point in a language understandable by all who can hear it, be they of any culture, any intellectual level or age.
These are the only signs of evolution to be found in the Galapagos:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
These “signs” of course point to the concept of evolution - the way we in the modern world, have come to understand its history, how it came to be and how it has changed within its time. More than just a scientific theory, which is considered fact by most educated people, it acts as a mythos, evoking passionate discussions, telling us who we are, how we got here and where we are heading, if not why we are here.
The reality of life is that it is not random at all, and quite complex, involving not only matter and the existence of DNA within the organic system of a cell. but organisms as they exist in themselves, actual living beings, which represent their species shaping all aspects of their existence - physical and psychological, as participants within and in relation to their environment. Natural selection is actually a destructive influence on the flowering of diversity. The creative and artistic act of God, producing the symphony that is this universe is not captured in the least by what is a simplistic answer, barely describing what is on the surface and ignoring the depths of existence.
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Dan123
Guest
The Galapagos islands are simply where Darwin did his research. There’s more than 100 years of research, evidence, and refinement since then.
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Aloysium
Guest
Had he entered into his research freed from the utilitarian, deistic if not atheistic undercurrents of his time, had he in fact gone there now and seeing the devastation done to species, he would likely have come to different conclusions. Scientific research in genetics has been contorted to fit an essentially materialistic model that actually ignores life, in order to promote the visions required by consumerist, fascist and communist societies. There is no research on evolution per se because it is like string theory, simply an unprovable story that weaves together the strands of what are true scientific facts into a fabric that is ultimately a distortion of reality.
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buffalo
Guest
These bacteria could already digest citrate. Two experiments, one before Lenski, and one after saw the bacteria adapt and digest within 4 weeks. The speed of the adaptation was quite remarkable and shows the latent genetic abilities of bacteria.
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