Why?

[to_seek]

I read a lot on most of the sites posted here regularly and I am very concerned that there are a lot of people out there worrying themselves sick about issues around rules to do either with sin/confession, or communion. A lot of fear coming through loud and clear. I relate to that fear well because it was partly all that scrupulosity that drove me away originally. I believe Jesus would not want people all wound up and bound up in fear because they dont know if they have made a proper confession or think they are condemed because something they might have done or not done correctly. Jesus forgives true repentance and He forgets the sin immediately. Why has the Church over the centuries built up this type of situation where the rules regarding practises of confession, venial and mortal sin issues, etc etc have induced such fear? Prior to the New Testament, the world was under the law . When Christ came and died, all believers were released from law, into grace. The New Testament is grace bound. The Church on the other hand still seems incredibly law bound and I have seen many Catholic buckle under the strain of trying to keep all the laws, and forgetting about the Saviour in the process. Surely that is not what Our Lord meant to happen? He came to set people free, not bound up in fear?

 

[choy]

I read a lot on most of the sites posted here regularly and I am very concerned that there are a lot of people out there worrying themselves sick about issues around rules to do either with sin/confession, or communion. A lot of fear coming through loud and clear. I relate to that fear well because it was partly all that scrupulosity that drove me away originally. I believe Jesus would not want people all wound up and bound up in fear because they dont know if they have made a proper confession or think they are condemed because something they might have done or not done correctly. Jesus forgives true repentance and He forgets the sin immediately. Why has the Church over the centuries built up this type of situation where the rules regarding practises of confession, venial and mortal sin issues, etc etc have induced such fear? Prior to the New Testament, the world was under the law . When Christ came and died, all believers were released from law, into grace. The New Testament is grace bound. The Church on the other hand still seems incredibly law bound and I have seen many Catholic buckle under the strain of trying to keep all the laws, and forgetting about the Saviour in the process. Surely that is not what Our Lord meant to happen? He came to set people free, not bound up in fear?

what makes you think we were released from the Law?

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 5:17[/BIBLEDRB]

Jesus did come to set us free, that is why we have the Sacraments. so we have a way to obtain Grace, even at the times when we reject God through sin

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Jesus fulfilled the law, by interpreting it on a situational basis. His “personal interpretations” did not match those of the Church, in terms of what it means to keep the sabbath, etc. He healed on the Sabbath, his people picked grain on the Sabbath, Jesus defended his people against not washing the cup as prescribed, he even held tax collectors and prostitutes in higher regard than church leaders.

Some say that being relativistic such as He is a bad idea – and something we should not imitate. In contrary, he brought a “dead” law to life by showing us how to properly apply it.

Others are less honest and deny that Jesus’ interpretation of the “law” is relativistic. Jesus doesn’t change, but situations change and a loving response to one is not the same as a loving response to another. That’s because the law could convict, but not judge.

Alan

 

[JRKH]

I read a lot on most of the sites posted here regularly and I am very concerned that there are a lot of people out there worrying themselves sick about issues around rules to do either with sin/confession, or communion. A lot of fear coming through loud and clear. I relate to that fear well because it was partly all that scrupulosity that drove me away originally.

I am sorry that you were driven away by the fear you felt. But the thing I notice in what you write above is this. People are “worrying themselves sick…”, not the Church, they themselves. Also I see that it was, “…scrupulosity that drove (you) away originally.” This scrupulocity of course is something within the individual and not something imposed on them from the outside. The vast majority of faithful Catholics operate just fine within the rules of the Church and understand, as you say below, that God forgives and forgets our repented sins.
That said, we need to have compassion for those who, like yourself, suffer from Scrupulocity" and I think you will often note this concern in the responses that people give.

I believe Jesus would not want people all wound up and bound up in fear because they dont know if they have made a proper confession or think they are condemed because something they might have done or not done correctly.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Jesus does not wish us to be bound up in Fear. That is why, whenever we run into such questions / concerns here, we always try to show love, and to encourage the person to seek both spiritual and medical help to overcome their unwarranted fear.

Jesus forgives true repentance and He forgets the sin immediately. Why has the Church over the centuries built up this type of situation where the rules regarding practises of confession, venial and mortal sin issues, etc etc have induced such fear? Prior to the New Testament, the world was under the law . When Christ came and died, all believers were released from law, into grace. The New Testament is grace bound. The Church on the other hand still seems incredibly law bound and I have seen many Catholic buckle under the strain of trying to keep all the laws, and forgetting about the Saviour in the process. Surely that is not what Our Lord meant to happen? He came to set people free, not bound up in fear?

Many Questions above. Lets’ see if I can help here.
First of all, we have not been released from law, rather we have received a new commandment. To Love one another as Christ Loves us. We have also been given Grace and the Holy Spirit to guide us.
As to why the Church has “…built up this type situation…”? The answer is absurdly simple and in fact is contained in the title of your thread. It is the propensity for man to ask “why”, and “what if…”, and “suppose that…” This propensity to question and to demand explanation has led, over nearly 2000 years, to a huge body of “rules” and explanations ALL trying to clarify the one simple Law that Christ Gave us. “LOVE”

I/We cannot stop people from becoming overly scrupulous. We can only show them love when we encounter them here.
The more one recognizes the central core of teaching, the more one looks to Love instead of Fear, the more one strives to move toward God in Holiness, the easier it is to follow the “rules”. Following the rules then becomes a pleasure and not a chore for we follow them in Joy and for the Glory of Him we Love above all things.

Hope this helps some.

Peace
James

 

[poetryforjesus]

Can I ask you some questions:

What do you think is the purpose of living? What is the purpose of your life?

If we don’t need to worry about sins or how to please Jesus, what do you suppose we should worry about?

Is the purpose of life simply to enjoy life? Would that be a little bit boring?

 

[Deconi]

You have a clear misunderstanding of rules and regulations on how an individual is to conduct oneself, in The Kingdom, or in life!

You seem unaware that there are several hundred statutes and regulations ‘confining’ your very existence in your society EVERY hour of your life! Criminal laws; Traffic laws; Consumer laws; Council or Local laws; Constitutional rights; International laws…etc.

They number in the thousands by the end of the week, but you don’t notice them much. WHY? Because you accept them and live within them.

So too, a Catholic! If you live ‘within’… you hardly notice them…but…you know when you falter!

 

[MariaG]

I read a lot on most of the sites posted here regularly and I am very concerned that there are a lot of people out there worrying themselves sick about issues around rules to do either with sin/confession, or communion. A lot of fear coming through loud and clear. I relate to that fear well because it was partly all that scrupulosity that drove me away originally. I believe Jesus would not want people all wound up and bound up in fear because they dont know if they have made a proper confession or think they are condemed because something they might have done or not done correctly. Jesus forgives true repentance and He forgets the sin immediately. Why has the Church over the centuries built up this type of situation where the rules regarding practises of confession, venial and mortal sin issues, etc etc have induced such fear? Prior to the New Testament, the world was under the law . When Christ came and died, all believers were released from law, into grace. The New Testament is grace bound. The Church on the other hand still seems incredibly law bound and I have seen many Catholic buckle under the strain of trying to keep all the laws, and forgetting about the Saviour in the process. Surely that is not what Our Lord meant to happen? He came to set people free, not bound up in fear?

People are constantly asking for clarification. That is what the church does clarify. We can look to scripture and see this pattern in human psychology and God’s response to us. Look at Moses and the ten commandments. Read that part of scriptre again. God truly wished for us to be innocent, but man, since the garden of Eden, has reached for knowledge.

He did come to set us free, and if you look at any rule made by the church, its purpose is to help us draw closer to Christ. The people who get hung up on the rules, would be the same ones who would be asking the questions about what they were supposed to do if the rules were not there.

Look at any church out there. Eventually they start or make a book stating their beliefs. And in it, they clarify things, thereby making rules. The catholic church has just been around longer and had to clarify more. That has been what most major declarations of church dogma has been a result of, clearing up confusion, heresy, and stating EXACTLY what a christian should believe.

As for confession, that has been one of the greatest gifts the Lord has given us! In John 20:21_23 Christ instituted confession. As someone who has (and still does) confess to God in my bedroom here is the difference.

Have you ever been completely sorry (perfect contrition), confessed to God, and still had that sin come up and be reminded of it? A former pastor’s wife said that was just Satan,God had forgotten it. In confession, the miracle is that God denies satan any power over you and it never comes back! And literally, we believe that when the priest hears confession, he stands in “persona Chriti”, in the person of Christ. So when we confess, we are confessing to God, through Christ! And we can get some great advice back too!

I could go on much more! But I gotta run.

Hope that helps a little.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[to_seek]

Jesus fulfilled the law, by interpreting it on a situational basis. His “personal interpretations” did not match those of the Church, in terms of what it means to keep the sabbath, etc. He healed on the Sabbath, his people picked grain on the Sabbath, Jesus defended his people against not washing the cup as prescribed, he even held tax collectors and prostitutes in higher regard than church leaders.

Some say that being relativistic such as He is a bad idea – and something we should not imitate. In contrary, he brought a “dead” law to life by showing us how to properly apply it.

Others are less honest and deny that Jesus’ interpretation of the “law” is relativistic. Jesus doesn’t change, but situations change and a loving response to one is not the same as a loving response to another. That’s because the law could convict, but not judge.

Alan

Regarding your first paragraph Jesus the Son of God showed what was more important, loving, healing and reaching people, than continuing to make more and more laws.The Church needs to remeber first priority is to do as He did. No Jesus was never relativistic, He could not be. Regarding bringing dead law to life. The Church obviously is not properly applying His Law which is contained in the 10 Commandments He put on stone. Plus He knew noone could ever be perfect even with these commandments. We are to infer from that He wanted us to depend and rely on Him and Him alone. Nor were we to get bogged down in theology which is manmade interpretations fundamentally. Im not saying that jThe Holy Spirit did not inspire early theologians, so dont read me wrong here. I am convinced that He would overthrow a lot of the incredible lists the Church has drawn up, which does not affect ones Salvation directly. Some of which I read on this site is ****. Not all. It doesnt even make sense. All it does is confuse and turn away searching people. I believe Jesus never meant to create complications for followers. His Words speak clearly and directly to all who read them.

 

[to_seek]

I am sorry that you were driven away by the fear you felt. But the thing I notice in what you write above is this. People are “worrying themselves sick…”, not the Church, they themselves. Also I see that it was, “…scrupulosity that drove (you) away originally.” This scrupulocity of course is something within the individual and not something imposed on them from the outside. The vast majority of faithful Catholics operate just fine within the rules of the Church and understand, as you say below, that God forgives and forgets our repented sins.
That said, we need to have compassion for those who, like yourself, suffer from Scrupulocity" and I think you will often note this concern in the responses that people give.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Jesus does not wish us to be bound up in Fear. That is why, whenever we run into such questions / concerns here, we always try to show love, and to encourage the person to seek both spiritual and medical help to overcome their unwarranted fear.

Many Questions above. Lets’ see if I can help here.
First of all, we have not been released from law, rather we have received a new commandment. To Love one another as Christ Loves us. We have also been given Grace and the Holy Spirit to guide us.
As to why the Church has “…built up this type situation…”? The answer is absurdly simple and in fact is contained in the title of your thread. It is the propensity for man to ask “why”, and “what if…”, and “suppose that…” This propensity to question and to demand explanation has led, over nearly 2000 years, to a huge body of “rules” and explanations ALL trying to clarify the one simple Law that Christ Gave us. “LOVE”

I/We cannot stop people from becoming overly scrupulous. We can only show them love when we encounter them here.
The more one recognizes the central core of teaching, the more one looks to Love instead of Fear, the more one strives to move toward God in Holiness, the easier it is to follow the “rules”. Following the rules then becomes a pleasure and not a chore for we follow them in Joy and for the Glory of Him we Love above all things.

Hope this helps some.

Peace
James

Thank you James, you give an explanation that makes sense and isnt too complicated. Peace also to you

 

[to_seek]

Can I ask you some questions:

What do you think is the purpose of living? What is the purpose of your life?

If we don’t need to worry about sins or how to please Jesus, what do you suppose we should worry about?

Is the purpose of life simply to enjoy life? Would that be a little bit boring?

Sure you can ask. I believe the purpose of our life is to love and serve The Lord, bring the message of Salvation to those who do not know, to serve our brothers and sisters in need whereever and whenever the oppotunity arises, and to worship Him Worry is Not what we are called to do. Fear and Worry are not of God, nor is anything that causes fear. Yes we need correction and guidance, confession and communion. No we do not need to split hairs about whether I did it right or what type of sins have I committed as sin is sin and as such, is all anethema to God. Sins require repentance and we are required to repent and obey The Lord. Nothing else. No but God did give all of us good things to enjoy as well. I will say my life has been hard, and life generally is hard. Nowhere does it say however that we cannot enjoy it when those times come. Thank you for replying and asking me those questions. Peace to you and yours.

 

[to_seek]

You have a clear misunderstanding of rules and regulations on how an individual is to conduct oneself, in The Kingdom, or in life!

You seem unaware that there are several hundred statutes and regulations ‘confining’ your very existence in your society EVERY hour of your life! Criminal laws; Traffic laws; Consumer laws; Council or Local laws; Constitutional rights; International laws…etc.

They number in the thousands by the end of the week, but you don’t notice them much. WHY? Because you accept them and live within them.

So too, a Catholic! If you live ‘within’… you hardly notice them…but…you know when you falter!

Hi I beg to differ. I know we all have a code of rules and regulations that govern our societies, Im not meaning law in that sense! No I dont accept rules that are senseless or corrupt in any way. I do believe in behaving according to basic societal rules. Law as defined by old Testament society was harsh, hard and unforgiving meaning death often for very simple infringements. Jesus came and set people free out of that kind of law and instituted the law of Grace.Grace for those who were to be true believers of Him. Normal laws by necessity were not changed. Im talking spiritual laws here. Thanks

 

[poetryforjesus]

Sure you can ask. I believe the purpose of our life is to love and serve The Lord, bring the message of Salvation to those who do not know, to serve our brothers and sisters in need whereever and whenever the oppotunity arises, and to worship Him Worry is Not what we are called to do. Fear and Worry are not of God, nor is anything that causes fear. Yes we need correction and guidance, confession and communion. No we do not need to split hairs about whether I did it right or what type of sins have I committed as sin is sin and as such, is all anethema to God. Sins require repentance and we are required to repent and obey The Lord. Nothing else. No but God did give all of us good things to enjoy as well. I will say my life has been hard, and life generally is hard. Nowhere does it say however that we cannot enjoy it when those times come. Thank you for replying and asking me those questions. Peace to you and yours.

That’s a pretty reasonable answer. Perhaps our personal psychology makes us different. To me I greatly appreciates the rules and strict teaching of the church because I cannot trust myself to make moral decisions. The Church’s rules are like guidance and protection of a loving Mother that will keep me out of danger. My life was a complete mess before I was exposed to Catholicism. No one told me that in order to have a happy life I must obey God’s rules (in addition to having faith in God). But if we read the whole Bible it is clear that God will bless those who listen to Him and follow His ways. It is also part of the natural law: those who do good will reap good; those who do evil and fall into erroneous ways will be punished by their own wrong-doing. So I’m grateful for a Church that will not hesitate to tell me what is right and what is wrong and what are the best ways to live righteously in accordance to what pleases God.

It’s sort of like the individual family. Families will be the happiest if they know how to discipline and have strict rules. Families that are loose easily fall prey to enemies both outside and within (the world and our own sinful nature).

Our spiritual enemies are very very real. That’s why I think in His mercy God established a Church that will teach everything about everything, because He wants to guide everybody to maximum safety and happiness, which is only possible through complete renunciation of every kind of evil, whether they be big or small. The Kingdom of Heaven is completely opposite from this world. That’s why the Catholic Church has rules or at least recommendations about pretty much every aspect of our lives. Scripture says that everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial. The Church certainly wants us to follow everything BENEFICIAL so that we can reap the maximum amount of happiness, glory, peace, joy, love, and friendship with God.

Does this sound reasonable to you?

 

[JRKH]

Thank you James, you give an explanation that makes sense and isnt too complicated. Peace also to you

Glad to have helped.
By the way, what I shared above and so much more is distilled in the book contained in my signature. (I get no recompence for recommending it).

I believe that you would find if very helpful to you on your journey.

Peace
James

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

To be honest, I feel that the vast majority of Catholics are not concerned enough with the rules set out about the Sacraments in particular. For example, at Mass nearly everyone receives, yet when I go to confession there is hardly anyone there. It is not fear that takes me to confession. I go because I love God and I am sorry that I sinned. I want to confess my sin as we have been told to do and I want to receive the mercy and grace that is only available in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It is Jesus Who gave BINDING authority to the Church. If your sin has been bound by the Church it is bound in heaven. If your sin is loosed in the Church, it is loosed in heaven (Mt. 16:19). However, as I said, it should not be fear that motivates us to confess, it should be love for God and true contrition.

I am curious as to what you think is so complicated? We confess our sins as best we can. We try to say to the priest in the confessional what we say to God in the secret of our heart. In truth, Jesus is with us in the confessional. If we forget something, we simply confess it next time. I’m not sure what you are referring to when you talk about splitting hairs…

 

[rwoehmke]

In my opinion the OP’s question has only partially been answered. It seems to me that for some reason our Faith seems to breed more members who are scrupulous than many other Christian faiths. Maybe it is because our more explicit moral system attracts more OCD types who want to be sure about right and wrong than some other forms of Christianity. I agree the problem resides in the individual, but why does it seem to occur so frequently with Catholics?

 

[poetryforjesus]

In my opinion the OP’s question has only partially been answered. It seems to me that for some reason our Faith seems to breed more members who are scrupulous than many other Christian faiths. Maybe it is because our more explicit moral system attracts more OCD types who want to be sure about right and wrong than some other forms of Christianity. I agree the problem resides in the individual, but why does it seem to occur so frequently with Catholics?

Have you also noticed that Catholicism breeds the most brilliant Saints compared to other forms of Christianity? If you agree with that, I’d say the Catholic Church is doing things the right way.

 

[to_seek]

To be honest, I feel that the vast majority of Catholics are not concerned enough with the rules set out about the Sacraments in particular. For example, at Mass nearly everyone receives, yet when I go to confession there is hardly anyone there. It is not fear that takes me to confession. I go because I love God and I am sorry that I sinned. I want to confess my sin as we have been told to do and I want to receive the mercy and grace that is only available in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It is Jesus Who gave BINDING authority to the Church. If your sin has been bound by the Church it is bound in heaven. If your sin is loosed in the Church, it is loosed in heaven (Mt. 16:19). However, as I said, it should not be fear that motivates us to confess, it should be love for God and true contrition.

I am curious as to what you think is so complicated? We confess our sins as best we can. We try to say to the priest in the confessional what we say to God in the secret of our heart. In truth, Jesus is with us in the confessional. If we forget something, we simply confess it next time. I’m not sure what you are referring to when you talk about splitting hairs…

Hi there, its complicated to me because having stepped back for quite some time, I learned some valuable things. I believe that I can sincerely seek Gods forgiveness by repenting and then turning away from sin without the formality of confession, although it is a good place to go if talking with a person helps. It is only the Catholics who teach that only Priests can formally forgive a person. Jesus encourages us all to confess. That doesnt mean that any other way is wrong because God would not be God then if the Church controlled these matters. The splitting hair thing relates to the numbers of catholics who get hung up by whether they have done a good or bad confession, whether they are in venial or mortal sin, literally they worry about stuff that they dont need to. Any confession that is sincere, heartfelt and ends in a change of behaviour is a good confession whether it is done by with a Priest or not. It is God who lays the ground rules first and foremost. No Church has or should have the type of power that controlls millions of people into blind, sometimes rote like obediance. Obediance is a choice we all make. In saying that there is a lot that the RC does teach that is good and that which is holy and right. Never think that you cant make good decisions without the Church because that is not so. It is in Christ that we all can do the right thing, no one said it was going to be easy. Thanks for replying.

 

[JRKH]

In my opinion the OP’s question has only partially been answered. It seems to me that for some reason our Faith seems to breed more members who are scrupulous than many other Christian faiths.

I think this is a very good thing. Far better than breeding more members who are “un-scupulous” don’t you think?

Maybe it is because our more explicit moral system attracts more OCD types who want to be sure about right and wrong than some other forms of Christianity.

I think you have partially answered your own question. Certainly the Catholic faith with it’s well spelled out systems are attractive to those who like “order” in their lives.

I agree the problem resides in the individual, but why does it seem to occur so frequently with Catholics?

Does it occur more frequently with catholics??
I’m not aware of any study that would demonstrate that OCD and Scrupulocity issues are more prevelant among catholics than either among the general population, or among Christian populations as a whole.

The Church may well attract those who like the order, and consquently a certain number of those will suffer from the pathological forms of scrupulocity and OCD. These problems do not stem from the Church’s “order” but from the internal imbalance of the individual.
We need to Love them and to try and help them.

Peace
James

 

[steve_b]

I read a lot on most of the sites posted here regularly and I am very concerned that there are a lot of people out there worrying themselves sick about issues around rules to do either with sin/confession, or communion. A lot of fear coming through loud and clear. I relate to that fear well because it was partly all that scrupulosity that drove me away originally.

The Church offers help to people who develop this.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0012fea2.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0611fea5.asp
s:

Why has the Church over the centuries built up this type of situation where the rules regarding practises of confession, venial and mortal sin issues, etc etc have induced such fear?

You DO know that mortal sins are listed in scripture AND the consequences to the soul who has these sins on their soul at death? The Church isn’t pulling this stuff out of a hat.
s:

Prior to the New Testament, the world was under the law . When Christ came and died, all believers were released from law, into grace. The New Testament is grace bound. The Church on the other hand still seems incredibly law bound and I have seen many Catholic buckle under the strain of trying to keep all the laws, and forgetting about the Saviour in the process. Surely that is not what Our Lord meant to happen? He came to set people free, not bound up in fear?

Grace doesn’t mean laws get thrown out the window. And it doesn’t mean laws are no longer binding. If that were the case Jesus wouldn’t give His Church the power to bind and loose. Jesus gives His Church the sacraments precisely BECAUSE they give grace.

Here’s 2 issues to think about and answer.

1. 
   *]Re: mortal sin. Why does scripture say that sins that aren’t mortal can be prayed about and God forgives them. But NOT the mortal kind? Why NOT? What then are you supposed to do with mortal sins if you can’t rid yourself of them with prayer like non mortal sins.? [1 Jn 5:16… ]
   *]Scripture says, Missing mass on Sunday (on the Day) as is the habit of some is already considered a deadly sin in the 1st century. The one who continues to miss mass on purpose after being warned NOT to, no longer has the sacrifice for sin benefiting them, but instead has judgement waiting for them and a furious fire that consumes the enemies of God. [Heb 10:19-26 ] WHY?

 

[poetryforjesus]

It is only the Catholics who teach that only Priests can formally forgive a person. Jesus encourages us all to confess.
No Church has or should have the type of power that controlls millions of people into blind, sometimes rote like obediance. Obediance is a choice we all make. In saying that there is a lot that the RC does teach that is good and that which is holy and right. Never think that you cant make good decisions without the Church because that is not so. It is in Christ that we all can do the right thing, no one said it was going to be easy. Thanks for replying.

But it’s not the Church that teaches confession to priests, it is Christ Himself.

Jesus said to the disciples first thing after His resurrection: Receive the Holy Ghost; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. (John 20:22-23)

And if you must insist that all people could do the right thing without the Church, are you also going to insist that all people could be good without the help of God?

You probably would say that all they need is to read the Bible. But without the Church there wouldn’t even be the Bible.

Did Jesus found a Church, or did He mostly chose the disciples for the only purpose of waiting for them to write the new Testament?

If Jesus’ mission was to found a Church and not to write a book, then do you think it is right for us to say that the Church is not central in the salvation of mankind?

My own experience has told me that it is impossible for me to do right without the Catholic Church, because I wouldn’t have known how merciful Jesus is. I wouldn’t have know His Mother Mary, who is always here to intercede for me with her Son. I wouldn’t have had a Church family that makes my home. I wouldn’t have access to Eucharist, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of my Lord.

These things may not seem to matter to you at this point, but don’t assume that they don’t matter in God’s scheme of things.