Wicca: Just how dangerous is it?

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Then you refuse to follow the teachings of the Pope and the Catholic Church, therefore you are not really Catholic, either. Which means your beliefs are inventions of Satan and his followers. Because sure as God made little green apples, the Catholic Church still wrote NOSTRA AETATE.

Why do Catholics always want to have their cake and eat it too?
Did I say I was ROMAN Catholic.

Why do non-Catholics assume there is only one kind?

And btw do not forget I did not exclude the possibility of salvation apart from normal means, I only said there are normal means and these normal means are those by which people can be assured of their salvation.

But I will ask you a simple question…

If we accept as true that all religion stands on equal footing then why do you not confess Christ as Lord if one truth claim is as good as another?

God Bless
 
I don’t think so. One of my cousins is one and she wouldn’t hurt a fly.

I don’t believe in magic or spells anyways. But, has it even been proven to work? and If so, it is probably highly satanic.

I do remember seeing a guy in an interview named Anton LaVey who wrote the Satanic bible. Apparently one time he cast a spell on some lady who ‘wronged’ him. Well, a few minutes later she died in a car crash by being impaled.

Just a coincidence? I don’t know. I think magic and spells are a bit ‘far fetched’. And if they really worked, I assume lots people would be trying to do it.
The Bible teaches quite clearly that witchcraft is real and powerful. To say otherwise is to flatly contradict Scripture.

God Bless
 
Garbage? Why, thank you, how kind of you to say. 😛

Satan is from the Judeo-Christian world view. You deny this?? That’s where it came from! It didn’t spring from older religions, it sprang from Judeo-Christian teachings.
Really?

The notion of “The Accuser” originated with Judaism?

Do you really want to go with that?

God Bless
 
Garbage? Why, thank you, how kind of you to say. 😛

Satan is from the Judeo-Christian world view. You deny this?? That’s where it came from! It didn’t spring from older religions, it sprang from Judeo-Christian teachings.
Just in case you’re not aware, Judaism’s view of Satan is different from that of Christianity and Islam. Satan is still an angel, not a demon or fallen angel, according to Jewish belief. He is the accuser, the tempter; but he nonetheless works for G-d in testing our free will. (On Yom Kippur, however, Satan, the accuser, is silent.) There is no real clash of powerful forces between G-d and Satan. Judaism cannot tolerate the idea that a former angel would be strong enough to even think of challenging G-d.
 
And why should I not say the confusion that has been sown by multiplied religions, denominations and crass syncretism being couched as “religious studies” is a work of the Devil?
Well, leaving aside the rather silly slam at “religious studies,” you’re shifting your ground. First you said that non-Christian religions (not just Wicca) were invented by the Devil. Now that you’ve been challenged on this, you redefine your position, saying that “the confusion that has been sown” is of the Devil.

Two quite different things.

The existence of non-Christian religions has many effects. Some of them are good, some of them are evil. You can’t equate the religions themselves with a particular effect that you believe flows from them.

In my opinion the form of speech “X is from the devil” is pretty hard to defend. Satan cannot create. Any human phenomenon contains a mixture of good and evil. Thus, it’s misleading, dehumanizing, and maybe even heretical to say that any human phenomenon is “from the devil.” One can perhaps speak of a particular twist given to some idea as being from the devil–I’ve said that sort of thing on occasion.
Scripture is clear that God does not author confusion and in every corner (and most seminaries) students are taught that religion is all pretty much the same
What seminaries teach this? What evidence do you have for this?

You are painting with a very broad brush.

Most scholars of religion would now say that it’s pretty hard to define what religion is, so saying that religion is all pretty much the same would make no sense.
The simple fact is, it is not the similarities that make a religion true but rather the quality of its truth claims,
This doesn’t make sense. By saying “quality of truth claims” you seem to be allowing for varying levels of truth (since “quality” is susceptible of degrees) and abandoning the indefensible position some try to maintain that a “true religion” must have 100% true truth claims, and anything that doesn’t is simply false. But once you do that, then of course you have to allow that religions that have similarities to the “true religion” (assuming that such a thing exists) are to some extent true.
and as soon as a truth claim is made; it is made to the absolute exclusion of all other truth claims.
That doesn’t make sense either.

It is true that there is one God.
It is true that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God.

These two truth claims do not contradict, although many people think they do. One of them certainly does not exclude the other.

Indeed, your claim would be falsified simply by the fact that “there is one God” and “God inspired the Bible” are both true, since these are both truth claims.

I think the problem is that you don’t define what you mean by “other.” I’m not cutting you any slack on this one, though, because I don’t see what “other” can mean that will help your argument. If you mean “a claim maintained by another religion” (never mind the difficulty in defining what a religion is in the first place!), then my first example above disproves your argument, since Muslims make the first claim along with us. If you mean “disproves every other contradictory claim,” then what you are saying is obvious and I don’t see how it helps your argument.
Therefore there really is only one truth, and if all religions are on equal footing
Straw man.

It is in fact possible that several different religions with apparently contradictory claims are really equal, and all reveal different aspects of a truth that transcends our understanding. That I think is the position you are trying to attack, and which you mistakenly think is the position held by scholars of religion generally (even in seminaries, according to you!). Some people hold this. I don’t think it’s self-evidently false as you claim. But I think it makes no sense to claim “equality” between two different religious traditions, especially if you’re appealing to a truth that transcends language and reason (how then would you know they were equal?). And more to the point, your criticism fails because the argument is not that contradictory truths are both true but that the truths only appear to be contradictory.
But if any truth claim is true then all other truth claims are lies, and lies do not originate with God.
Again, you need to clarify what “other” means here. I don’t see how your argument will hold up once you clarify that very loose word.

Furthermore, the word “lie” implies malice. Whatever became of the category of “mistake,” or even “imperfect understanding”?

And finally, whether you use the word “lie” or not, humans have been known to err. So saying that “lies” don’t originate with God does not prove that the ideas in question originate with Satan. No doubt Satan, being malicious, loves to help people fall into and remain in error. But that doesn’t mean that the ideas themselves “come from” Satan.
I am persuaded the truth claims of Christianity are true.
Therefore I am also persuaded that all non-Christian religions ARE inventions of Satan and his followers.
Non sequitur. There are lots of holes in your argument, as I’ve shown above.

I understand people taking harsh positions because they believe truth demands it.
And I understand people letting their feelings of love and charity lead them into sloppy thinking.
But I have precious little patience or understanding for people who take harsh, exclusive positions and can’t be bothered to define basic terms or think through the obvious implications of what they are saying.

Edwin
 
Really?

The notion of “The Accuser” originated with Judaism?

Do you really want to go with that?
Some people think that the idea came from Zoroastrianism. Hard to be sure. Of course, ti depends on how you define the concept of Satan. You’re right to point out that originally Satan was an “accuser” rather than a cosmic enemy of God–and the cosmic enemy idea is the one that seems most similar to Zoroastrianism.

What inconvenient consequences do you see flowing from the claim that this concept originated with Judaism?

Edwin
 
Non-christian religions were invented by the devil? Are you kidding me??

Don’t you guys READ???

DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
That was basically a statement on brotherly love, on how we should treat our fellow man who is also made in the image and likeness of God like ourselves.

I would venture to say however, the the Church continues to preach that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. That He alone is the Savior of the whole world, that He alone is God the Creator incarnate among us.
 
The Bible teaches quite clearly that witchcraft is real and powerful. To say otherwise is to flatly contradict Scripture.

God Bless
I don’t believe in Magic. I don’t know what else to say other than I have seen no documented evidence or proof of magic even working. Casting spells and curses seems like something children would do just to ‘try it out’. Not logical adults.

How is it even possible?

Please provide the scripture of its mention in the bible. I would like to see what it says, because right now I do not believe magic even exists. I believe sin does, in our actions, but magic? Casting spells on people? Seems far fetched.
 
Hey everyone. At one time I used to be a Wiccan. A Wiccan is basically a witch. Wicca is an Occult religion although some will disagree with that. Most will agree that it is a Neopagan religion. That said, just how spiritually dangerous is Wicca? Considering that it is at least related to the Occult, isn’t there a danger of demonic possession and other problems for practitioners?
Thank God that you have come out of that darkness. Yes, I agree, there is a danger of “demonic” posession that could come from it and many other likewise religious sects. I myself have been to one of those type of spiritual gatherings and knew instinctively that it was of the evil one. Let me assure you, I got out of there fast!

Stay with the light of Christ and you can’t go wrong.
 
Well, leaving aside the rather silly slam at “religious studies,” you’re shifting your ground. First you said that non-Christian religions (not just Wicca) were invented by the Devil. Now that you’ve been challenged on this, you redefine your position, saying that “the confusion that has been sown” is of the Devil.

Two quite different things.

The existence of non-Christian religions has many effects. Some of them are good, some of them are evil. You can’t equate the religions themselves with a particular effect that you believe flows from them.

In my opinion the form of speech “X is from the devil” is pretty hard to defend. Satan cannot create. Any human phenomenon contains a mixture of good and evil. Thus, it’s misleading, dehumanizing, and maybe even heretical to say that any human phenomenon is “from the devil.” One can perhaps speak of a particular twist given to some idea as being from the devil–I’ve said that sort of thing on occasion.

What seminaries teach this? What evidence do you have for this?

You are painting with a very broad brush.

Most scholars of religion would now say that it’s pretty hard to define what religion is, so saying that religion is all pretty much the same would make no sense.

This doesn’t make sense. By saying “quality of truth claims” you seem to be allowing for varying levels of truth (since “quality” is susceptible of degrees) and abandoning the indefensible position some try to maintain that a “true religion” must have 100% true truth claims, and anything that doesn’t is simply false. But once you do that, then of course you have to allow that religions that have similarities to the “true religion” (assuming that such a thing exists) are to some extent true.

That doesn’t make sense either.

It is true that there is one God.
It is true that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God.

These two truth claims do not contradict, although many people think they do. One of them certainly does not exclude the other.

Indeed, your claim would be falsified simply by the fact that “there is one God” and “God inspired the Bible” are both true, since these are both truth claims.

I think the problem is that you don’t define what you mean by “other.” I’m not cutting you any slack on this one, though, because I don’t see what “other” can mean that will help your argument. If you mean “a claim maintained by another religion” (never mind the difficulty in defining what a religion is in the first place!), then my first example above disproves your argument, since Muslims make the first claim along with us. If you mean “disproves every other contradictory claim,” then what you are saying is obvious and I don’t see how it helps your argument.

Straw man.

It is in fact possible that several different religions with apparently contradictory claims are really equal, and all reveal different aspects of a truth that transcends our understanding. That I think is the position you are trying to attack, and which you mistakenly think is the position held by scholars of religion generally (even in seminaries, according to you!). Some people hold this. I don’t think it’s self-evidently false as you claim. But I think it makes no sense to claim “equality” between two different religious traditions, especially if you’re appealing to a truth that transcends language and reason (how then would you know they were equal?). And more to the point, your criticism fails because the argument is not that contradictory truths are both true but that the truths only appear to be contradictory.

Again, you need to clarify what “other” means here. I don’t see how your argument will hold up once you clarify that very loose word.

Furthermore, the word “lie” implies malice. Whatever became of the category of “mistake,” or even “imperfect understanding”?

And finally, whether you use the word “lie” or not, humans have been known to err. So saying that “lies” don’t originate with God does not prove that the ideas in question originate with Satan. No doubt Satan, being malicious, loves to help people fall into and remain in error. But that doesn’t mean that the ideas themselves “come from” Satan.

Non sequitur. There are lots of holes in your argument, as I’ve shown above.

I understand people taking harsh positions because they believe truth demands it.
And I understand people letting their feelings of love and charity lead them into sloppy thinking.
But I have precious little patience or understanding for people who take harsh, exclusive positions and can’t be bothered to define basic terms or think through the obvious implications of what they are saying.

Edwin
Great piece of logical argument, Edwin! Oh why can’t my college students think like this?
 
Did I say I was ROMAN Catholic.

Why do non-Catholics assume there is only one kind?

And btw do not forget I did not exclude the possibility of salvation apart from normal means, I only said there are normal means and these normal means are those by which people can be assured of their salvation.

But I will ask you a simple question…

If we accept as true that all religion stands on equal footing then why do you not confess Christ as Lord if one truth claim is as good as another?

God Bless
Easter Catholic churches are supposed to be in FULL COMMUNION with the Pope. 😉

To me, all religions contain the light that shines in all men and can, if the practitioner is sincere and God-seeking, lead to God. I claim God as Lord. Why do you need me to call Him something else? Can’t I just call Him God and have you be OK with that?

The Catholic Church also wrote about religious freedom and not trying to force others to convert to any particular religion. That’s what religious freedom IS. Why are you so insistant that I call God something other than what I am comfortable with, and have been calling Him for my whole life? He doesn’t seem to mind. 😃
 
Just in case you’re not aware, Judaism’s view of Satan is different from that of Christianity and Islam. Satan is still an angel, not a demon or fallen angel, according to Jewish belief. He is the accuser, the tempter; but he nonetheless works for G-d in testing our free will. (On Yom Kippur, however, Satan, the accuser, is silent.) There is no real clash of powerful forces between G-d and Satan. Judaism cannot tolerate the idea that a former angel would be strong enough to even think of challenging G-d.
Thanks for that clarification! I knew they were different in some respect. 👍
 
Although the discussion is interesting. I think it is off-topic. Wicca is occult practice. This is unacceptable by the Church, and according to the scriptures of Our Lord unacceptable to Him.
 
I decided to look it up and am a bit surprised that these people who practice this say that " casting spells is like a person praying to God, but in a different form of ‘energy’. "

I dont know about you, but that doesn’t sound right.

I don’t believe in spells anyways, but I guess I don’t know everything. 😉
 
Scripture is clear that God does not author confusion and in every corner (and most seminaries) students are taught that religion is all pretty much the same and its a big tent with room for everyone, but the simple fact that one statement generated so much furor is proof that is not true.
This is off topic, but what you said was not taught at the seminary I attended. Please, tell us at which seminary were you in formation that taught such things?
 
**Actually, Satanism springs from Christianity. In many, many other religions, there is no Satan. Most Wiccans simply do not believe in Satan. Have you ever asked any? **
My Wiccan friends say…"To be a good Satan worshipper…one must first be a good Christian. Satanism is a “Christian denomination”.

Wicca does not accept the concept of a throughly “evil” deity. As is reflected in nature and the natural world…good and bad occur…life and death occur…protection and destruction occur. The Gods are neither good nor evil…they just are. They opperate within their nature and in the “realm” they have “authority” over.

Wiccan spells and incantations are the Wiccan counterpart of “prayers and liturgies”.
 
Holly, I suspect that there is a very good reason that God placed the very first of the ten comandments in that position: “I am the Lord your God. You shall have no gods beside me.” (pseudo quote from memory)

Nostra Aetate does NOT negate the first of the ten commandments, nor is it in conflict with it. Understood in harmony together, you begin to see that while it is crucial to root out false religious beliefs and erroneous character attributes of God taught in some (at least partially) false religions, we can also recognize that the PEOPLE in those religions are mostly genuinely seeking to know God and be close to Him.

Mistakes can be made on both sides. It is just as harmful to indiscriminately denounce other people’s beliefs as it is to pretend that beliefs are all equally valid. These errors are both just ditches on opposite sides of the straight and narrow.

Wicca utterly fails the First Commandment test because it promises to provide its believers with power over the supernatural. This is the precise opposite of true faith, which affirms that GOD is God and we are NOT. We are created good in His iamge, but fallen through our own faults rely on His Grace to save us.
 
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