Wicca-the fastest growing religion in Canada!!

[pnewton]

Heathen Dawn:

Mathematics is indeed the only area where things can be 100% proved to be true. In all other things we have just probabilities.

The fact that something cannot be 100% proven to be true does not mean that truth does not exist.

Logic is another branch that can be 100% true. St. Thomas Aquinas makes frequent use of logic.

 

[squirt]

pnewton:

The fact that something cannot be 100% proven to be true does not mean that truth does not exist.

Logic is another branch that can be 100% true. St. Thomas Aquinas makes frequent use of logic.

Hmmm … arguments can be valid or not in logic, but unless you can prove that the premises are 100% true, you still have to work with a certain amount of uncertainty in terms of any ‘proof.’ That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a ‘certain, unchanging’ truth, but our ability to ‘know’ with certainty via logic isn’t necessarily all that it’s cracked up to be …

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

“Absolute Proof” as the late Mortimer Adler (no relation to wiccan Margot Adler, I think) would say, is really in the realm of a few mathmatical constructs. However, there exists a great real of “Proofs beyond reasonable doubt” while not being “absolute” we stake just about everything on.

Way too many times in these and other forums I see the “counter” : ““You havn’t proved it”” Mostly meaning some absolute proof that they wouldn’t ask for any other area of their life.

 

[squirt]

“Absolute Proof” as the late Mortimer Adler (no relation to wiccan Margot Adler, I think) would say, is really in the realm of a few mathmatical constructs. However, there exists a great real of “Proofs beyond reasonable doubt” while not being “absolute” we stake just about everything on.

Way too many times in these and other forums I see the “counter” : ““You havn’t proved it”” Mostly meaning some absolute proof that they wouldn’t ask for any other area of their life.

Fer shure. We wouldn’t be able to function without some basic ‘unproved’ beliefs. I can’t ‘prove’ that the keyboard I’m using right now exists, but I’m willing to go on my ‘gut instinct’ that it is ‘real.’

I forget who wrote about basic beliefs and the only reasons for discarding them being ‘defeaters’ that make those beliefs incoherent … Man does not live by logic alone.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

what is the latest flavor of faith for Madonna… ist’t it Kabbalah? Everytime she publicly espouses that she used to be catholic, she sets us back a bunch… probably what and who the teenage girls are mimicking… what a role model…​

Kabbalah? Is that why she changed her name to “Esther”?

 

[Badwuv]

Hmmm, how did I get here. All I did was search under “wicca + forums” on Google and I ended up in an insane asylum.

Barrister, you are hilarious and may God have pity on your soul.

I’ll have you people know that Wicca is not an empty religion at all. In fact, I left Catholicism for it. The first time I tried a spell, a simple one, can’t remember what it was for exactly (it was several years ago) it filled me with such joy to feel the divine. A feeling that I had never gotten in a Catholic church. Since then my life has been filled with so much more meaning and depth than it was before.

Now you’re probably thinking that I am disillusioned, that I should go back to the church. All the church ever did for me was tell me that I would go to purgatory if I messed up because we have an all-forgiving god…I sense conflict there. Wonder why…

Jesus is great, and Christians and Catholics are generally good people or, at least, they try to be. I respect your religion. It has a virtuous set of values that are pretty straight forward and soem of you have faith in it.

But it wasn’t for me. So many people who call themselves Catholics didn’t really believe and I felt that there was something more, and I found that in Wicca. Perhaps that’s why it’s the fastest growing religion, because it has something more to offer to those who are seeking. Sure, there are those ten-minute Wiccans. I’ve met my fair share, and they really are misguided. But just as we try not to judge Christians and Catholics because there are the occasional murders of homosexuals and a book-burning party now and then, Catholics shouldn’t judge us because there are a few people with a screw loose.

When it boils down to it, we believe in the same things:
Peace, love, continuing life after death, and the Divine.

Okay, I’m done talking now…so if you could just put the tar and feathers away, I’ll be going.
-Badwuv the Wiccan

 

[kjvail]

Heathen Dawn:

Mathematics is indeed the only area where things can be 100% proved to be true. In all other things we have just probabilities.

Don’t fall for the lies of the positivists. This type of thinking underlies the moral relativism that is characteristic of our age. The ‘enlightenment’ discounted all philsophy, theology etc and said the only knowledge worth having is knowledge of the material world and in the process discounted the vast majority of all human learning upto that point.

Jesus was most probably born in September; the Early Church Fathers took the date of the Roman Saturnalia festival, the 25th of December (then Winter Solstice), as his birthday, in order to make it easier for pagans to convert to Christianity.

I thought you said you didn’t buy into this line of thinking? Seems like it has a hold on your thinking, this is provably untrue and the reasoning behind these types of assertions is highly questionable. I would recommend:

Is Catholicism Pagan?

There is alot more out there that I can point you towards to dispel the myth, but I’m out of time atm. Post later.

 

[Badwuv]

Read the article, kjvail. Have to agree with what they had to say about coincidental parallells, but many traditions from All Souls Day to Easter and Christian traditions were adopted from paganism. However, it cannot be expected of an article that is attempting to defend that Catholicism has been around for over a thousand years and, despitie that, was left totally untouched by surrounding influences to point that out. It would be something that would defeat their purpose, something like the atheists that they mentioned in the article.

Love and peace,
Badwuv

 

[pnewton]

Badwuv:

When it boils down to it, we believe in the same things:
Peace, love, continuing life after death, and the Divine.

-Badwuv the Wiccan

The above summary may be the basis for wicca, but not Christianity. We do not believe in “the Divine” but in one God and him only should we serve. While we believe in Peace and love, we also believe in justice and holiness.

And the centepiece of all Christianity is the Son of God, Jesus, his death resurrection and return. Also, we believe in the need for conversion and repentence,

Perhaps on of the greatest diffences is that we believe that there is a truth and that it does matter what you believe.

 

[Mfaustina1]

Barrister-

I just wanted to comment on your admonition not to post threads to Wiccan sites. I’m glad when someone posts these and other types of threads on things I don’t agree with and/or don’t know much about. It helps me to learn and understand where someone else is coming from. My sister is a Wiccan. I can hardly discuss Wicca with her if I don’t know anything about it and just make up my own assumptions now can I? I don’t think so. And I don’t think I can be as effective a witness of my own faith if I denigrate hers now can I? I don’t think so. Just because I or another person inquires into Wicca in order to gain a better understanding of the person who practices it, doesn’t mean that I myself desire to convert to Wicca. When you are dealing with people of differing beliefs, you better know something about what they believe or you’d never get far as an apologist! Just a thought. Peace to you! - Mfaustina1

 

[AnAtheist]

Badwuv:

Read the article, kjvail. Have to agree with what they had to say …

Read it too, and have to agree with it and you too. :yup:

There are “pagan” influences on christian traditions, like eating eggs on Easter, the name “Easter” itself (i.e. German goddess “Ostera” of the dawn (sun rising in the east (Osten) and fertility, hence the eggs as a fertility symbol), the christmas tree, crosses in front of holy trees, …
That doesn’t mean there was a pagan influence on the belief itself, just on the way it is expressed.

Besides, to us atheists all religion is the same and the differences or similarities between the different dieties do not matter much.

 

[kjvail]

A quick Google of “catholicism and paganism” yielded some good articles:

homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_babylon.html

cathinsight.com/apologetics/adventism/sunbursts.htm

kensmen.com/catholic/challenge.html

kensmen.com/catholic/jc3.html

Note on the date of Christmas, from 30 Days, an Italian Catholic publication:

“December 25 is an historical date,” Professor Tommaso Federici, Professor at the Pontifical Urbanian University and a consultant to two Vatican Congregations, has stressed. In an article in the *Osservatore Romano *on December 24, he wrote: “December 25 is explained as the ‘Christianization’ of a pagan feast, ‘birth of the Sol Invictus’; or as the symmetrical balance, an aesthetic balance between the winter solstice (Dec. 21-22) and the spring equinox (March 23-24). But a discovery of recent years has shed definitive light on the date of the Lord’s birth. As long ago as 1958, the Israeli scholar Shemaryahu Talmon published an in-depth study on the calendar of the Qumran sect Ed. based , in part, on Parchment Number 321 – 4 Q 321 – of the Qumran Dead Sea Scrolls, see picture at left], and he reconstructed without the shadow of doubt the order of the sacerdotal rota system for the temple of Jerusalem (1 Paralipomenon/Chronicles 24, 7-18) in New Testament times. Here the family of Abijah, of which Zechariah was a descendant, father of John the herald and forerunner (Luke 1, 5), was required to officiate twice a year, on the days 8-14 of the third month, and on the days 24-30 of the eighth month. This latter period fell at about the end of September. It is not without reason that the Byzantine calendar celebrated ‘John’s conception’ on September 23 and his birth nine months later, on June 24. The ‘six months’ after the Annunciation established as a liturgical feast on March 25, comes three months before the forerunner’s birth, prelude to the nine months in December: December 25 is a date of history.”

In other words, according to the evidence of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Sacred Scripture, our liturgical calendar is accurate:
end of September

Zechariah “executed his priestly function” (Luke 1:8) according to his class. His wife, Elizabeth, conceived (the Church traditionally holds St. John’s conception to have taken place on 23 September) just as St. Gabriel said (Luke 1:24) and hid herself away for 5 months.

March 25, the Feast of the Annunciation

In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy (Luke 1:26), St. Gabriel appears to Mary to tell her she is to have a child

June 24, the Feast of St. John the Baptist

Three months after the Annunciation,
St. John the Baptist was born

25 December

Nine months after the Annunciation, Jesus was born.

kensmen.com/catholic/customschristmasnotes.html

 

[rustyshakleford]

Folks,

It is with sadness that I find that well-meaning people such as yourselves are so intolerant of other’s beliefs. No-one is asking you to believe something you don’t, but you should show others that courtesy also. Fundamentalism in any form is dangerous and soul destroying. There is no greater way to prevent people hearing your message than to try ram it down their throats. Live and let live.

Regards.

 

[trippinprincezz]

ysicmg:

what “IS” wicca? when i hear the name, I think witches, but i have been told that it is not that at all - I am would like a link or something that could explain it (perhaps from a Catholic perspective) - My nephew is engaged to a girl whose father was in wicca and it makes me very uneasy.

Wicca and witchcraft are two totally separate things. Not all Wiccans are witches and not all witches are Wiccan. www.wicca.com is a very informative link and has message boards open to all faiths. Also if you go to religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm%between% , there is alot of useful information.

Despite what a lot of Christians seem to preach, Wicca is not an ‘evil’ religion, and has nothing to do with Satan, as Wiccans do not believe in him or any inherently evil being.

(have to go, boss is back, will continue later)

 

[trippinprincezz]

Wicca is a nature-based religion, believing in both the male and female aspects of divinity. I suggest you look at the links I referred to in my last post.

Unfortunately, it has become a ‘fad’ for many people, making it harder for the religion to be taken seriously. However, it is still a valid religion, recognized by the United States Army, and there are many people that take it seriously.

It is not a “do what you feel like” religion. It encourages respects for one’s self, one’s body, and respect for others and the world around them. It does not allow manipulative spells such as love spells. Those that use such spells, are not truly Wiccan. I have heard people call spells “evil”, but ‘spell’ is really just another name for a focused prayer. It is asking/praying to a deity for something you wish to happen. Other religions do the same…is that evil? Wiccans may or may not light candles, so do Catholics and others. It has rules just as any other religion. Although Wicca itself is only about 50 years old, it uses concepts based on Pagan religions from several thousand years ago.

I think a lot more people need to learn more respect and tolerance for others. “Judge not, lest ye be judged”…or “Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone”

FYI: I was raised Catholic, but do not agree with a lot of the teachings. For one, I do not believe in Hell. I also do not think that I should have to go through a priest or other to converse with my god. I am currently studying Wicca, but do not yet consider myself Wiccan, as I have much to learn. One thing I have learned, is that Wiccans are not different from anyone else. Sure there are some “bad seeds”, but you find that in any religion. However, I still believe the Catholic Church has some good teachings. I believe that Jesus did exist and was a good man. Bottom line: I don’t agree with everything, but I still respect it as a religion.

Personally, I feel all paths lead to the same god/goddess/force/etc. Religion is just someone’s preferred way of worshipping that same deity.

 

[trippinprincezz]

renee1258:

Heathen,

FYI “Safe days” does ensure you won’t get pregnant. You can’t get pregnant, if there no cervical mucus is present. Sperm can not survive. Once you have ovulate and your tempature rises for three consecutive day, the egg is no longer viable, you can’t get pregnant from that day on through out your period. And as a cross reference you internally check your the position of your cervix. Check out www.tcoyf.com for more infor on the science of female reproductivty, it is a non-Catholic site.

We are not machines, we are organisms. Our body is very precised in telling us exactly what is going on. It is quite amazing. QUOTE]

Please tell me, if the body is so precise (no ‘d’ ) then why is it that so many women have irregular periods? Very hard to plan your cycle when it goes from 4 weeks to 12 weeks to 6 weeks to 2 weeks, etc. Not to precise no is it? I have always had irregular periods, my mother did, and according to her, my grandmother, along with many other women I know. I am currently no birth control for several reasons: (1) i know when I’m going to get my period (2) I don’t like condoms (3) I can’t have a child right now. As much as I would love one, I think it would be a sin to bring a child that I cannot financially support or have time for (I work 7 days a week and will be starting my 2nd year of college in a few weeks) into this world. It would be very unfair to the child, and I want mine to be brought up right. So yes, the natural body is a wonderful thing, but the B.C. is just help for me. What about other medications? Heart medicine, vitamins, cholesterol lowerers, anti-depressents (yes, I’m on this too), etc. These are not necessarily natural, but a lot of people need them to maintain healthy lives.

But please, if you can tell me how to “fix” my body without meds, please let me know. For now, I’ll just give my ovaries a call to see when they’d like to schedule the next ovulation periord.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

kjvail:

Don’t fall for the lies of the positivists. This type of thinking underlies the moral relativism that is characteristic of our age. The ‘enlightenment’ discounted all philsophy, theology etc and said the only knowledge worth having is knowledge of the material world and in the process discounted the vast majority of all human learning upto that point.

I was only stating a fact. Knowledge is possible; but an honest man will admit that all we have is probabilities.

You will not find a more avowed enemy of Enlightenment scientism than me. I’m a veteran debater on atheist boards and I just can’t stand that type of rubbish.

I thought you said you didn’t buy into this line of thinking? Seems like it has a hold on your thinking, this is provably untrue and the reasoning behind these types of assertions is highly questionable.

I don’t buy into the line of thinking that says Jesus was a myth, never existed. However, I also recognise that myths were attached to the personage of Jesus. The NT recalls shepherds gathering at the time of Jesus’s birth. That would make it fall on the harvest, meaning on September. So where the December 25th date come from? From the pagan Winter Solstice of that time.

pnewton:

The above summary may be the basis for wicca, but not Christianity. We do not believe in “the Divine” but in one God and him only should we serve.

You believe in One Way, in the monopoly of Christianity on access to the Divine. That is religious imperialism, and I oppose it. I believe in the sanctity of religious pluralism, so long as any religion is not practised on others’ expense.

My View of Religious Pluralism

While we believe in Peace and love, we also believe in justice and holiness.

Yep. Justice: to throw a lifelong humanitarian to eternal hell just because he didn’t accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Holiness: acquisition of righteousness through a blood-sacrifice, with no need to work on oneself.

Maybe this isn’t accurate from the Catholic point of view, but since I’ve been a lot more on Protestant boards than on Catholic ones, please make an allowance for it.

Also, we believe in the need for conversion and repentence,

Me too.

Perhaps on of the greatest diffences is that we believe that there is a truth and that it does matter what you believe.

I believe there is a truth (see my linked article again) and that it certainly does matter what one believes. Before 9/11 we were in days of innocence, ready to grant anyone permission to believe in anything; gone are those days! Ever since the Two Towers fell crashing down in a flurry of devotion to God, I have held that religious freedom must not always be granted, that the freedom to practice one’s religion ends when the practices interfere with the well-being of other people.

I call for religious tolerance in general; but zero tolerance in the face of vice.

 

[The_Barrister]

pnewton:

The above summary may be the basis for wicca, but not Christianity. We do not believe in “the Divine” but in one God and him only should we serve. While we believe in Peace and love, we also believe in justice and holiness.

And the centepiece of all Christianity is the Son of God, Jesus, his death resurrection and return. Also, we believe in the need for conversion and repentence,

Perhaps on of the greatest diffences is that we believe that there is a truth and that it does matter what you believe.

Nicely said.

 

[trippinprincezz]

Ok, I see a lot of people saying that there is only one truth and that is the Christian Bible. The Bible was written by men, men who could write whatever they chose. Especially since a lot of the stories were handed down orally before even being put into writing. Yes, supposedly these men got these words directly from God. Hey, maybe they did. But maybe they didn’t. I could say that God talked to me through the potted plant in the corner of the room talked to me and told me the REAL truth about god and then write my own Bible. Maybe the plant talked to me, maybe it didn’t. Even if the plant DID talk to me and it WAS god, I could still twist some words around to suit my intentions, or maybe I forgot some stuff, so I’ll just fill it in with what I think sounds good. Get myself a nice group of followers. All of a sudden, I have the REAL truth. Of course, in this day and age, most people would think I was crazy if I said god talked to me, but people were more superstitious “back then”, I guess. Judaism was around long before Jesus was said to have been born. How do you know Jews don’t possess the real truth. Or the Muslims seem to think that they are Gods true followers, so why not them? The fact is, you don’t know. And you won’t know until you die. Hey, maybe everyone’s wrong (except those that don’t believe in a god/afterlife) and once we die our bodies just rot in the ground. I still think all paths lead to the same god/goddess/creator/life force. If someone wants to worship their creator in a way different than yours, who are you to call them wrong? You certainly aren’t a god.

I may not tolerate or like certain people, I do this based on how they act, etc. However, as much as I may not like those people, I will not condemn them for their beliefs. I have no right to. Sometimes faith is all someone has and I’m not going to call them wrong for it just because I don’t like them, or their religion is different than mine, or I may not agree with it. There are certain religious groups I really don’t care for - I’m still not going to say that they are wrong or “evil”.

There is supposdedly only one truth right? 33% of the entire world practices some form of Christianity. Does that mean the other 67% are all going to “hell” because they don’t hold the same beliefs? That’s a lot of people. adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I still don’t believe in a hell or a satan. I was raised in a Catholic family, went to Catholic school for 4 years and went to Church for most of my life. I was always taught that God loves us unconditionally. First off, if this is true and there is a “hell”, why would God send 67% of the people he loves to eternal suffering? Secondly, if God loves us unconditionally, why would there be a hell in the first place? If God loved us that much, he wouldn’t allow such a place to exist. Although I may not believe in purgatory either, I can at least understand the concept of it. Maybe “God” thinks we need to be punished for the “bad” things we did, but at least its not eternal suffering. Apparently, you can get out of purgatory. But, I just don’t believe in a hell. The only evil is in men themselves, not some demon “influencing” them. “God” gave us free will, so if people want to commit evil deeds, that’s their choice. No-one “made” them do it.

So if you want to worship a God that loves us unconditionally but would apparantly send us to eternal suffering, go right ahead. I won’t condemn you for it. Just give me the same respect and don’t condemn me for choosing to worship a loving god and goddess (which are probably the same force as your God anyway) and to not believe in a place of eternal suffering.

 

[trippinprincezz]

Also, I saw some people say that they were not of any particular sect or denomination, but that they were “True Christians”. Just to inform you, Christianity is a blanket term covering several religions with similar beliefs. There is not a set religion called “Christianity”. I suppose there could be a religion called “True Christianity”, but it would still be another sect of Christianity.

This site gives a pretty good list, although maybe not complete, of some of the forms of Christianity. victorian.fortunecity.com/crescent/487/Christianity/Christianity1.html